The answer is Yes and more.

Curse ( YHWH's Judgment )




The subject being Curses on Disobedience

Deuteronomy  28 : 15 - 68

15 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:

I see a ham sandwich in their somewhere  ;)

But how could he declare that? Wouldn't a curse mean a curse? How can one be both "cursed" and "blessed" at the same time? Are all of us that follow Yahowah in danger of having Him kill our children if "we" as the parents do something wrong?

I think my issue is with the "judgement" being the sacrifice or killing of a child. For instance, in this situation, Dowd's life was sparred while his son actually took the "punishment" for Dowd's sin. Does that make sense? I understand how Dowd's son dying hurt Dowd, but what why would the son be the one to ultimately receive the punishment?

If "I" murder someone, would Yahowah kill one of my kids? That is the question.

I also have trouble with the census. This scripture with the baby is one I haven't thought about for a long time. It hits close to home for me because I am the result of an affair. I put this scripture out of my mind after being in a church service once as a teenager and hearing that the child really should have never been born so it was no big loss. That never left me, so I just pushed it out of my mind.

But, I thought each of us was judged by what "we" did, not the sins of our parents. For instance, Ezekiel 18:20

"The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself."

So, how does that reconcile with Dowd for both his son as well as the punishment in numbering the people?

So what do we do with Ezekiel when it declares that no matter the wrong done by a father, it is the father that is supposed to do, not the son. The son is allowed to either follow Yahowah or not and will be judged by what he himself does.

I am just having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around Yahowah killing a baby because of the sin of the father and even saying that the father is spared from death, but the child has to die. I am having a lot of trouble with this one.

Some help would be really good.

I know JamesH declared that Dowd thought the ruling was just, but how could a father think a child dying because of "his" wrong doing is a just ruling? In fact, the only people I can imagine that would breath a sigh of relief that their child was punished instead of them are kind of sick and twisted.

I get that many children suffer because their parents are wrong, but this is different. This is a child, a baby, bearing the punishment of the father while the father is spared. The punishment for murder was supposed to be death. However, the death was placed on the child. I am having a really hard time reconciling this.

David and his son was not the first time.

This is the first born from infant to adult male and female and animals

Exodus 11 : 1 - 10

5 and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the female servant who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the animals.

Exodus 12 : 29, 30

29 And it came to pass at midnight that YHWH struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of livestock. 30 So Pharaoh rose in the night, he, all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

Seems that Eze 18:20 verse is misapplied, post versus premillineal, before and after torah is wrote on our hearts.
Since much of Ezekiel is Millenial reign, Millenial temple (after he returns 6000 yah). I see some very strong correlation between Eze 18 and Jer 31:

Eze 18:1 And the word of יהוה came to me, saying,
Eze 18:2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Yisra’ĕl, saying, ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are blunted’?
Eze 18:3 “As I live,” declares the Master יהוה, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Yisra’ĕl.
........
Eze 18:19 “And you said, ‘Why should the son not bear the crookedness of the father?’ But the son has done right-ruling and righteousness, he has guarded all My laws and he does them, he shall certainly live.
Eze 18:20 “The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the wrongness of the wrong is upon himself.

Jer 31:29 “In those days they shall no longer say, ‘The fathers ate sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are blunted.’
Jer 31:30 “But each one shall die for his own crookedness – whoever eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be blunted.
Jer 31:31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah,
Jer 31:32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה.
Jer 31:33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people.
Jer 31:34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbour, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”

YHWH---------------> INSTRUCTION <-------------------|
               |                                    |                                     |                      
                      |                                    |                                     |                    
               |               OBEY<--- |---> DISOBEY               |   
               |                  |                          |                  |                      
  BLESSING<-----------|                 |------>CURSE-----|



If you remove the word CURSE and put GRACE in its place then DISOBEY has no consequence hence " the New Testament CHURCH in control" 

HA BAAL

The child would be withYHWH. That would be a blessing for the child


Sorry about the prev 2 posts ,should not drink wine and post!,,

What proof do we have that the child was with YHWH? Should all parents simply kill their children while they are minors - that will ensure they go to be with YHWH? I thought YHWH was about free will and people "choosing" a relationship with Him? Instead, He builds His family by killing babies? Nope, can't buy that one.

No, but in context to Yishra'el that is supposed to be an example to the nations. Dowd lusted and used his power to entice and then murder, Bathsheba didn't refuse this adultrous affair either. 2Sam 11:27 says it was a son, a potential heir to the throne. YHWH was going to do a lot worse judgement until Dowd repented...but still The grief of losing a child very harsh. Shortly after they did have Solomon who did succeed Dowd as king.

It's obvious that YHWH doesn't intervene in freewill and the results of sin and poor choices cause probably thousands of babies to die daily. In the context he allows it, not smites them.

Per Yada's example of "if God were to appear to men 800 ft tall....(alternative to freewill)", can be taken one step further: All eyes see him return, judging the nations, removing all corruption and adversary bound for 1k years, reconcilling and writing Torah on their hearts. I'm curious what "...sour grapes and childrens teeth blunted" means too.
That's the context of Eze & Jer verse seems to apply to.

This is a special case. Dowd was King of Yisra’el not just Joe Blow average guy. The child was a product of adultery. Interesting that the child did not have a name or we are not told the name. The child also died at seven days old so he wasn’t circumcised so probably not with Yahowah. If the child would have lived he most likely would have become king instead of Shelomoh. Then Yahosha’s line would not have been the same.

2Sa 12:24 And Dawiḏ comforted Bathsheḇa his wife, and went in to her and lay with her. So she bore a son, and he called his name Shelomoh. And יהוה loved him,
2Sa 12:25 and sent by the hand of Nathan the prophet, and called his name Yeḏiḏeyah, because of יהוה.

H8010
שׁלמה
shelômôh
BDB Definition:
Solomon = “peace”
1) son of David by Bathsheba and 3rd king of Israel; author of Proverbs and Song of Songs
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine

Peace by way of reconciliation.

H3041
ידידיה
yedı̂ydeyâh
BDB Definition:
Jedidiah = “beloved of Jehovah”
1) the name given to Solomon through Nathan the prophet
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine

H5416
נתן
nâthân
BDB Definition:
Nathan = “giver”
1) a son of David by Bathsheba
2) the eminent prophet in the time of David and Solomon
3) a man of Zobah, father of one of David’s mighty warriors
4) father of Azariah who was over the officers of Solomon
5) son of Attai and father of Zabad of the tribe of Judah
6) brother of Joel of the tribe of Judah
7) one of the head men who returned from Babylon with Ezra
8) a man with a foreign wife in the time of Ezra
9) head of a family of Israel who shall mourn when they look on Him whom they pierced
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine


Pro 6:28 Would a man walk on hot coals, And his feet not be scorched?
Pro 6:29 So is he who goes in to his neighbor’s wife; None who touches her goes unpunished.
Pro 6:30 They do not despise a thief If he steals to satisfy his appetite when he is starving.
Pro 6:31 Yet if he is caught he repays sevenfold; He gives all the wealth of his house.
Pro 6:32 He who commits adultery with a woman lacks heart; He who does it destroys his own life.
Pro 6:33 He finds smiting and shame, And his reproach is not wiped away.
Pro 6:34 For jealousy enrages a man, And he does not spare in the day of vengeance.
Pro 6:35 He does not regard any ransom, Nor accept your bribe, however great!

Shalom, Happy Succoth to all!

Sorry I. can't even make the connection to "human sacrifice". I was really hoping for another great insight about freewill :)

I talked with Patty about this last night and the conclusion we came to is that killing the child was not a punishment for the child but mercy. Here is the logic.

Yah exists outside of time. As such he know in advance the consequence of any action or inaction.

With that in mind Yah knows the consequences for Dowd, the child and indeed all of Israel, if Dowd does not change his ways.

Yah knew that Dowd had to be punished if he was going to change, and that if he didn't change their would be dire consequences.

Yah would know rather the child would ever come to know Him or not, again outside of time. My guess is that if the child would ever have come to know Him that He would have spared the child, but He knew there was no hope for the child. Indeed Yah may have known that the child would grow to be a deceiver and thus spared him from the abyss, but if not the child's end would be the same as the end it had.

Extend that would be the consequence to the world if Dowd had not returned to Yah's way.

This is all speculation. But the conclusion for me is that Yahowah posses infinite regression and can make His choices with that. If Yah knew that the child would die separated from Him no matter what and that if it happened at this moment Dowd would be returned to Him, then it was an act worth doing.

Just my two cents.

Anne - your opinion and insight is as welcome as anyone's! The only thing I would even imagine correcting would be translation and I am less skilled in that than my 5 year olds - LOL! Join on in the debate and maybe we will all end up with a greater understanding!


James - I like the insight, but I hate having to extrapolate beyond the text. If you and Patty are correct, this would be Yahowah doing a serious intervention in free will. Then, that gets into why didn't He kill Solomon before Solomon fell into paganism? Why didn't he kill Rehoboam? He caused serious problems for Israel.

Some folks mentioned that this child would have been king and that would have been a problem, but why? Was Mariam (Yahowsha's earthly mother) simply a serogant mother (where the entire child was someone else's) or was her egg used and fertilized from Yahowah? If her egg was used, was He part man/part God? This brings in all kinds of issues for me. The concept of this child having to die, then this child getting to live - it's all crazy in my head. If the world would have been so much worse off with this child, what gives with Hitler not being killed in childbirth? Why did Paul get to make it to adulthood? Why didn't the first rabbi who chose to corrupt scripture fall on a rock, hit his head, and die? If any child should have died at birth it should have been Ishmael, talk about problems exiting through human history from the birth of one child!

The reason I am pressing on this incident is because it's one of those things I can't explain to atheists or xthians. When I say "look to the Torah, Prophets, and Psalm's for the nature of our loving Father", I can't explain these things with scripture. It becomes fuzzy logic. it gets into "pre-selection" and a usurpation of free will (Yahowah killing someone before they do something really wrong). Is there anything worse than corrupting Yahowah's Word? Yet, He didn't stop that from happening by killing evil men at birth.

I am pushing this because I need to face it, face my fear of peeling back to covers and trying to honestly and truly find the nature of YHWH. I sat in shock last night and wondered - could I make Him so angry He kill my kids? Would my response be - "oh that's cool, me and the hubby will just make some more". Is this what it means in Luke 14:26? I don't really love Him unless I could care less what happens with my flesh and blood? It feels so wrong, so horribly wrong. And, as I mentioned, Dowd's other kids weren't shinning examples of excellence in following Yahowah. How much worse than Absalom could this kid have been? What is worse than Solomon heavily taxing the children of Israel to build pagan places of worship for his many wives, then going and bowing down before those idols himself?

And then we go back to free will. Of all the times that Yahowah chose not to intervene - it seems so many better times to change the course of history, like with Chawah. If love requires a choice, why didn't this child get one? Dowd made a choice, he chose against Yahowah; yet he was spared the punishment that so many others had received. Those with a lesser relationship and understanding of Yahowah - why? Dowd caused the death of so many people, yet he continued to have a favored spot - why? It actually seems that throughout Dowd's entire reign, whenever he messed up someone else always took the penalty and that penalty was always death.

I have looked at Dowd's Psalms, his heart was there with Yahowah. I get so much from every Psalm. But I am stuck here, at his life and how Yahowah interacted with Dowd. I am stuck and I can't move. I must understand this. Why is it that even with Abram, Issac was sparred but an animal was sacrificed. Even with Moseh and the children of Israel - their son's were sparred and an animal was sacrificed (Passover). Why for Dowd was it always a human sacrifice that spared his life when he did wrong? Why was the shedding of blood for Dowd always another human life? Something is not right here.

As much as I fear the answer, I need to know it.

So, are we to always assume that whenever someone was killed, they just had it coming?

I am not being argumentative, I am just thinking about this argument being used by my xthian friends.

I just don't understand why it seems every other time there was an animal to be sacrificed. Why a child this time? Why didn't Yahowah say "The child is coming to me now". He didn't say that, Yah said "die". The child didn't have a peaceful death, but a slow death. 2 Samuel 12:15 says that Yah struck the child "that was born" with illness. We don't know how old the child was. The child lingered for seven days, then died. Why a slow death?

Flintface, I understand not thinking evil of Yahowah. But in my heart, I have to understand. It just seems so against the nature of Yahowah. Why didn't Dowd pay the penalty? Yes, he felt bad when his child died, I get that. But the punishment for murder wasn't having your child die, it was your own death. Instead of Dowd paying the penalty, he was spared. His sin was wiped away.

I don't know how to express it quite right, but at this moment, right now, I am back to my xthian roots of fear. Fear of anger, fear of might, fear of vengeance. I know I am so insignificant that Yahowah wouldn't bother much with me. But I thought I knew His nature. In fact, for a long time I just thought the child died, but the child didn't simply die, it was killed. Maybe it just all works itself out in the end. Maybe the death wasn't painful, maybe He put the child in a coma. I don't know. It just seems so outside the nature of Yah. But, maybe it's my understanding of Yah's nature that has to change. Not that He is evil, but intolerant of wrong. Maybe the price for wrong really is that high and maybe our suffering for wrong is two fold, not just suffering separation, but pain and anguish here as well. Maybe I don't quite realize what a Father is all about. I know He is not wrong, so it must be my understanding that is wrong. Maybe I need to stop telling people that it's easy, just walk away from Babylon and into a loving relationship. Maybe I have been wrong in describing just the good, maybe there needs to be a healthy fear and understanding of the seriousness of disobedience. Maybe there is an "obey" portion after all. I just, in my heart of hearts, can't bear the slow death of a baby. My heart is overwhelmed with what Dowd and Bathsheba went through, watching and waiting and crying and praying. I am so absolutely torn and ripped at the core for what it would be like for those 7 days. Dowd was away, fasting and praying. Bathsheba, I can imagine her torment, her utter pain, her agony. Maybe it best to not think about it, not question, not ask. Yahowah is allowed to do as He pleases and He is always right.

Dowd didn’t plot to have Uriyah killed at first. First he wanted to hide the affair by calling Uriyah from the battlefield and have him go home and sleep with Bathsheḇa. But Uriyah didn’t go to his house and sleep with Bathsheba. Twice! If Uriyah had slept with Bathsheba his wife then I don’t think that Dowd would have had him killed. The adultary would have been hidden and the child would have lived.

I am not saying that this is all Uriyah’s fault.

2Sa 11:6 Then Dawiḏ sent to Yo’aḇ, “Send Uriyah the Ḥittite to me.” And Yo’aḇ sent Uriyah to Dawiḏ.
2Sa 11:7 And Uriyah came to him, and Dawiḏ asked how Yo’aḇ was doing, and how the people were doing, and how the fighting was going.
2Sa 11:8 And Dawiḏ said to Uriyah, “Go down to your house and wash your feet.” And Uriyah went out from the sovereign’s house, and a gift from the sovereign followed him.
2Sa 11:9 But Uriyah lay down at the door of the sovereign’s house with all the servants of his master, and did not go down to his house.
2Sa 11:10 And they informed Dawiḏ, saying, “Uriyah did not go down to his house,” So Dawiḏ said to Uriyah, “Did you not come from a journey? Why did you not go down to your house?”
2Sa 11:11 And Uriyah said to Dawiḏ, “The ark and Yisra’ĕl and Yehuḏah are dwelling in booths, and my master Yo’aḇ and the servants of my master are encamped in the open fields. And I, should I go to my house to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? As you live, and as your being lives, let me not do this.”
2Sa 11:12 And Dawiḏ said to Uriyah, “Remain here today also, and tomorrow I let you go.” So Uriyah remained in Yerushalayim, that day and the next.
2Sa 11:13 And Dawiḏ called him, and he ate and drank before him, and he made him drunk. And at evening he went out to lie on his bed with the servants of his master, but he did not go down to his house.


The child that was killed was the product of lust but Shalomoh was the product of reconsiliation. Shelomoh had the Temple built, Dowd wasn’t allowed to build it. Would the child of lust have built the Temple?


1Ki 5:1 And Ḥiram sovereign of Tsor sent his servants to Shelomoh, because he heard that they had anointed him sovereign in place of his father, for Ḥiram had always loved Dawiḏ.
1Ki 5:2 And Shelomoh sent to Ḥiram, saying,
1Ki 5:3 “You know my father Dawiḏ was unable to build a house for the Name of יהוה his Elohim because of the battles which were all around him, until יהוה put them under the soles of his feet.
1Ki 5:4 “But now יהוה my Elohim has given me rest all around, there is neither adversary nor evil incident.
1Ki 5:5 “And see, I intend to build a house for the Name of יהוה my Elohim, as יהוה spoke to my father Dawiḏ, saying, ‘Your son, whom I set on your throne in your place, he does build the house for My Name.’


1Ki 6:1 And it came to be, in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Yisra’ĕl had come out of the land of Mitsrayim, in the fourth year of the reign of Shelomoh over Yisra’ĕl, in the month of Ziw, which is the second month, that he began to build the House of יהוה.

1Ki 8:12 And Shelomoh said, “יהוה has said He would dwell in the dark cloud.
1Ki 8:13 I have indeed built You an exalted house, an established place for You to dwell in forever.”
1Ki 8:14 And the sovereign turned around and blessed all the assembly of Yisra’ĕl, while all the assembly of Yisra’ĕl was standing.
1Ki 8:15 And he said, “Blessed be יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl, who spoke with His mouth to my father Dawiḏ, and with His hand has filled it, saying,
1Ki 8:16 ‘Since the day I brought My people Yisra’ĕl out of Mitsrayim, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Yisra’ĕl in which to build a house for My Name to be there, but I chose Dawiḏ to be over My people Yisra’ĕl.’
1Ki 8:17 “And it was in the heart of my father Dawiḏ to build a house for the Name of יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl.
1Ki 8:18 “But יהוה said to my father Dawiḏ, ‘Because it has been in your heart to build a house for My Name, you did well that it was in your heart.
1Ki 8:19 ‘Only, you do not build the house, but your son, who is coming from your loins, he does build the house for My Name.’
1Ki 8:20 “Now יהוה has established His word which He spoke, and I have been raised up instead of my father Dawiḏ, and sit on the throne of Yisra’ĕl, as יהוה promised, and built a house for the Name of יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
1Ki 8:21 and have appointed there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of יהוה which He made with our fathers, when He brought them out of the land of Mitsrayim.”


Yahowah was the Elohim of Shelomoh to start with it wasn’t until he was old that his wives turned him away.


1Ki 11:4 And it came to be, when Shelomoh was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other mighty ones. And his heart was not perfect with יהוה his Elohim, as was the heart of his father Dawiḏ.
1Ki 11:5 And Shelomoh went after Ashtoreth the mighty one of the Tsiḏonians, and after Milkom the abomination of the Ammonites.
1Ki 11:6 Thus Shelomoh did evil in the eyes of יהוה, and did not follow יהוה completely, like his father Dawiḏ.
1Ki 11:7 Then Shelomoh built a high place for Kemosh the abomination of Mo’aḇ, on the hill that is east of Yerushalayim, and for Moleḵ the abomination of the children of Ammon.
1Ki 11:8 And so he did for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and slaughtered to their mighty ones.
1Ki 11:9 Therefore יהוה was enraged with Shelomoh, because his heart had turned away from יהוה Elohim of Yisra’ĕl, who had appeared to him twice,


Shalom

dajstill,

If you are looking for an answer that you can give to an athiest or chistian then I don't think you will ever find one. It's much like the story in Joshua, no matter what they will choose to reject God because of it. There is no answer that will appease them because they don't want an answer, what they want is a reason to dismiss Yah.

All we can do is attempt to understand why God did it for ourselves. God knows what we do not and makes His choices on that. We can only guess as to what that information might be.

I also like the fact that Uriyah was drunk and still made the right choice

Their is no excuse for making bad choices while drinking 
So I'm told 

Not so much to make them believe, but when people say "well, how can you trust a God that kills babies" which I have heard more than once or when an xthain says "we know we are under grace because God doesn't kill people immediately when they disobey Him anymore."

I often comment that our relationship with Yahowah is not one of punishment, it is about obeying Him but understanding Him. But, now I find myself not understanding this aspect of Him, not understanding this situation. For instance, while people often times want to bring out the "stone disobedient children" scripture I can point out that we don't have a historical account of any child actually being stoned. The parameters were often strict 1) must be an male and that word (na'ar I believe) was used mainly for adult children, 2) the child must first be counseled by the parent, 3) the charge against the child was that the child was a glutton and a drunkard. Being a drunkard was quite dangerous (we see drunk people accidentally killing people often now, being a glutton could cause problems in time of famine, etc.). So, this was no way a command to kill children for dropping waffles on the floor or having accident when potty training. I can look at Yah's nature and see his teaching wasn't cruel or unjust.

This, for me, I can't wrap my mind around it. I actually don't know of any other time when this sort of "punishment" took place. Even when Yah killed people (like the guy that touched the ark of the covenant) the death with swift. When the children in Egypt died from the plague, it happened in one night and there was a chance for every child to be saved if only their parent obeyed the voice of Yahowah. This is so different, so strange, I just don't get it. If someone were to challenge me and say "then why did Yah kill babies" or even one baby, I have no answer that makes any sense. Especially not a long drown out dying process.

Tks dajstill 

This is still troubling to me because these are all the same Christians that wrote the new testament 

 http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11457c.htm

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/papias.html

I think I am having an overall "cultural clash" right now, I think that is the word I need. Am I trying too hard to understand Dowd's life instead of just reading Dowd's psalms? For instance, here are the things I am clashing with so to speak.

In 2 Samuel 12:11 - is YHWH saying He is giving Dowd's wives over to be raped?

This question led me to start looking at women and children and now I am really confused. Have I been looking at things wrong? Have religious men had it right, with women and children being mere property to do with as one pleases? For instance - what is the difference between a wife and a concubine? Can adultery only be committed by a woman? Are men only forbidden from sleeping with the wife of another man, but any woman not belonging to a man can be taken as a wife or a concubine needing only the permission of the woman's father to have her as one pleases?
Is the rape of women doled out as a punishment to men?
Did Bathsheba willingly sleep with Dowd? Was the "lay with her" used in 2 Samuel 11:4 the same "lay with her" used in 2 Samuel 13:14? Because Tamar also wanted to stay with Amnon after her "lay with her" even though she didn't want to be with him in the first place and knew it was wrong and even tried to stop him.

Why was the having and keeping of concubines permitted?

Does this teach something about the view of women to YHWH? I understand we are supposed to learn from Israel, they were a sign to the world. What is YHWH trying to tell us about women? Were women different back them? Did they enjoy being merely 2, 3, and 5th wives? Was it desirous to be a concubine? Were men that "needy" that they had to lay with multiple wives, multiple concubines, multiple female servants?

Did YHWH speak with Chawah before her punishment? Was she confused about the instructions (don't even touch the tree) because she received instruction from Adam and not YHWH?

Is YHWH's relationship with men while women and children are dealt with according to the man's relationship with YHWH (thus household blessing or household cursing)?

As painful as this is to imagine, it is the only thing that makes sense to me in understanding Dowd.

I know people might say "what about Rahab", but Rahab was spared because she was kind to men of YHWH and she went on to marry of the family of Yah - thus being under "household" protection from a man.

The daughter's of Tselophhad were given property only because there were no male heirs. The torah instruction in Numbers 26:8 thus becomes that if a man has no son's - then a daughter can get the inheritance. Does this mean a woman can only have a relationship with YHWH if there is no man in her life?

Hear my heart, I am not saying women can't love Yahowah, I know I do. But maybe being "in Babylon" has caused me to have a warped understanding of women and children. Maybe not judging a son by the sins of the father does come after the millineal reign begins.

This is just me thinking out loud here. I will probably in 30 minutes completely dump this notion and go back to thinking that having concubines is wrong and having multiple wives makes sense only in the extreme circumstance of sustaining the population. I love my relationship with YHWH, but what if I am wrong? As a xthian I would take the parts I liked and reject the ones I didn't. I am trying not to so that. Every word is inspired and there for me to learn something; learn something about YHWH and about His character. Wouldn't "knowing" that my relationship is centered around my husband's relationship be beneficial to me? It wouldn't mean Yah doesn't love me, just that I must follow His plan.

Hi flintface 

I'll take a break on the nt stuff for a while if you would answer me 3questions

1.  Who are the Christian founding fathers of the New Testament ?

2. What was the roll of the founding fathers in the New Testament?

3. Was the mother and child Virgin birth in Matthew ,
        True?     
         False?                     

 Use Scriptural reference 

And again I have backed up all my statements with Yah's word or documentation.

All I get in return is "don't be goofy"

These questions I am bring up about the nt are serious !
We could be perpetrating ha Baal 's lie.

Ok, one more question.

What is kept "protected" in the " ARK of the COVENANT " ??????

Hint, it's not the new testament and psalms.
And if you carefully observe Yah's word you will find it was more than 10

ALL of YAH,s word is protected in the "BOX of INSTRUCTIONS"

to "YHWH   EL's"    Relationship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could not agree more flintface. Insofar as I have been able to tell from shama’ shamaring Towrah/towrah, and engaging with Dad per His be’ryth (His be’ryth/Covenant is where the Creator of the universe becomes our Dad, and is the place where we mere mortals (worms really – especially relative to gowym) are made immortal, enriched, enlarged, and elevated to become Yah’s son/daughter…and this is relative to Yah doing everything in, with, and through Yis’rael/Yahowdah – that is beneficial to the whole world; and it is only in the context/perspective (Yah’s perspective/context) of the gowym being adopted (Yah providing kacaph keceph and miqnah on behalf of gowym) into Yah’s Family/Be’ryth (Yis’rael/Yahowdah) that Yah’s Word/Dabar/’imrah/’eduwth/Towrah/towrah (all are One in the same with Yah Who’s One (mashyach nagyd – set-apart to serve ‘message’ of Yah (Yah working through His Set-Apart Representation as manifested in Ma’aseyah Yahowsha’ (Yahowah saving us) / Ruwach Qodesh (our Spiritual Mother))) to serve His Family Yis’rael/Yahowdah solely and exclusively --- everyone who’s not related to Yah in Yis’rael/Yahowdah, and the means He provided in this Family, is the very definition of what it is to be midbar and ‘azab by default: gowym are perpetually the walking dead except for this One narrow path/’Way’…at least that’s what I was…my apologizes for having gone ‘long winded’ just to say: we, gowym, have to be adopted into Yahowah’s Family Yis’rael/Yahowdah; we most certainly don’t become xtian joining a pagan satanically inspired circe/chirch; or become muslims; or follow rabbinical teachings on oral law all of which is wholly and totally opposed to Yah’s Towrah; makes perfect sense to me?