Darryl, I had exactly the same discussion with my wife. Not good. If anyone here has any advice on how to handle this type of discussion PLEASE GIVE US SOME HELP!!!

Gene Autry first recorded "Frosty the Snowman" in 1950:


I say we go back to the original version!




I am in exactly the same situation, Brother.

[Ben Stein voice: ON]

Anyone, anyone, Buhler, Buhler, anyone...

[Ben Stein voice: OFF]

Icy posted as I was putting this together. Hand and Glove, both belonging to Yahweh. I think and pray for you often brother.

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I have no answers, but I have a plan. Your additions, deletions and corrections are welcome (needed).

As I have progressed on my plan to use this year as learning time to wean my family from their Christmas traditions, things have not gone perfectly. As i remember my words of "putting the rubber to the road" my mind wanders to a movie clip of a prank in American Grafitti (the movie) where the police speeds off after the gang members only to have the entire rear axel ripped from beneath police car by a gang-attached chain. I suppose it could be worse, no one is threatening me with candy canes (yet) but, I am sure there will be a tree and silver and gold.

I was just reminded of this scripture:


Per the quote above; It seems to me that although we rightly want to be obedient to Yah's Way, what we are rejecting is nothing at all. We will not be harmed by it because we understand it is nothing. It's danger is in distracting, confusing and misleading those who do not understand. Our mission (since we have decided to accept Him)[weak Mission Impossible reference] is to help bring those to understanding, then they will reject the filthy pagan rituals on their own. ;-)

In this regard we are often told to promote Yah by reflecting his loving example. Perhaps we should gently explain His Way, even participate as needed to protect the peace. Taking away traditions may cause tension and bad feelings, while adding new traditions (Yah friendly) may engender closer bonds and eventually overshadow and drown out the old.

As KP stated elsewhere, we shouldn't give this day or time over to Satan. It exists as a tradition of family gathering (good thing) and praise and worship to God (also good if we do it correctly).

And of course I pray for Yahuweh's blessing, guidance and strength for my actions and for the opening of the hearts and minds of my loved ones and yours.

I wonder if Lots Wife was looking back thinking about the christmas decorations that were left behind.

Since we keep bringing up the same subject—what to do about “holiday traditions”—it is abundantly clear that we haven’t really gotten to the core of the issue yet. Yada rightly asks the provocative question: “How wrong can you be and still be right?” And we all nod thoughtfully, rub our chins, and say, “Yes, we know that a late December Christmas has pagan roots, that it began under Constantine as ‘recycled Saturnalia,’ that Yahshua was born in the autumn at the Feast of Tabernacles, and that Yahweh specifically instructed us not to follow pagan worship practices (see Deuteronomy 12:29-31).”

For some of us, then, the path seems obvious: dump Christmas altogether, the traditions, the trappings, and the tinsel—just ignore it all, and maybe (depending on our psychological proclivities) take it upon ourselves to admonish our believing friends about the evils of the season. We who are historically aware know that these conclusions are not without precedent. From the apostles to the Puritans, Christmas was pointedly not celebrated by many pious believers. These days the people most inclined to pursue this all-or-nothing approach are (1) serious followers of Yahweh, (2) who are males (3) unencumbered by wives, mothers, or close families. Yes, from what I keep hearing, it’s apparently a “guy thing.” One male forum participant after another has moaned, “I want to follow my God-given convictions on this matter, but when I do, my wife (or mother) has a fit, saying I’m being antisocial, uncaring, insensitive, and cold hearted.”

Ask yourselves, guys: are the women in our lives any less “spiritual” than we are, any less attuned to the will of God? I can assure you, they’re not. As the son of a godly mother, and husband of a godly wife for over forty years now, I can attest that I would not be who I am today, or know what I have come to know, without their support, understanding, and prayers. Yet both of them loved to celebrate the season. To ask who’s right and who’s wrong here is, I believe, to ask the wrong question. We need, rather, to consider how God made us—male and female. We need to factor in our generalized roles and our gifts.

What we tend to forget, gentlemen, is Who Yahweh patterned women after. I firmly believe that they were designed to mirror the attributes of His Holy Spirit. The need to nurture is hard-wired into their core being. They are compelled to comfort, console, and counsel their children—to shelter them, and set them apart from the dangers of the big, bad world. So what happens when the weather gets cold, and everybody gets driven indoors, huddled around the hearth for warmth? The maternal need to nurture kicks into high gear. The traditional, though errant, date for Christmas becomes a focal point for what Mom does best: loving her family. The prevalent myth that the Savior of the world entered life as a human child at this time of year only deepens her focus, if she’s inclined to worship Him. But I can practically guarantee that if the “Christmas” holiday tradition had somehow landed in July, our wives and mothers would still go nuts every winter decorating, baking, and knitting warm things for us.

So much for the theory. But how can we accommodate both our wives’ tendency to “channel” the Ruach Qodesh and our own need to “rightly divide the Word of Truth”? I have no magic formula. I can only offer a lifetime of personal experience (now that most of it’s behind me). When we were first blessed with children, my wife’s “Christmas affliction” was given free rein, and by the time we had five or six kids (we ended up with eleven) it was totally out of control—which meant, of course, that “Christmas” was a wonderful, magical time of year, spanning a good six weeks every winter, draining the budget and expanding our waistlines. But as I became concerned over the “secularization” of Christmas (not yet knowing its history) I asked my wife to de-Santa-Claus the decorating routine. Knowing (and sharing) my heart for God, she complied without complaint.

Twenty years later, when most of our kids had grown up and moved out, my studies led me to the realization that we had the date wrong, the tree was a pagan holdover, and half of the Christmas traditions we had blindly followed all those years were actually wrong. Again, I asked my wife to adjust, explaining my position. And again, she did as I asked, because she loves me and trusts my judgment. This time, though, it was the holiday itself I was objecting to, and I had some adjustments of my own to make. I had to sort out what was related to the pagan festival, and what was merely “Hey, it’s cold outside; how about some hot chocolate?” I realized that much of what she’d been doing was weather-related, not holiday related. Every spring, she goes nuts in the garden, and she’s got similar seasonal “rituals” for summer and fall. Why should winter be any different? So the tree, the nativity scene, the garlanding and the mistletoe have all gone the way of Santa Claus. But the house still looks festive and warm, thanks to a wife who cares about making it a home. Some things die hard: she’s got celiac disease (like a wheat-gluten allergy on steroids), I’m on a low-carb diet, and our home-bound daughter is a diabetic—and still she’s compelled to bake goodies this time of year.

I guess my point is that it is possible to find balance between correctness and cultural capitulation. But husbands and wives must learn to submit to one another in love under the sovereignty of the Messiah. Nothing else will work.

kp

Ken, my brother, feeling you're a man like to me, only 'slightly' more experienced, I know you will down play this. Though I believe that those of us who benefit from it can't say it enough, and even though speaking for others can be tricky. I think I'm going to risk it here. YAHUWEH has blessed you with great wisdom, and I know those others on this board feel the same way. I feel that our beloved dad has blessed us all greatly in leading us to you. Your heart for our lives is enormous, and most of the time I can't even believe how brilliant you an Yada are. I want to thank you Ken, and Yada, for always having the right thing to say. For constantly heeding the voice of our god. Praise YAHUWEH for providing for you, and praise you both for being humble enough to listen to our dad's wisdom.

Now I would like to add to your statement. Only in heaven are things black, and white. Good, and bad. This is a world of grey, and our god is a god of moderation, and compassion. You can tell when you are following well When you are wandering STRIAGHT down the NARROW "centre" of all possible paths. Sometimes I feel like in our zealousness to follow YAHUshua we are ready to proclaim that in order to avoid pagan symbols we should cut down all phallic trees, and burn them. Remember what Ken said about all days belonging to YAH. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the season. As long a you cut out the ridiculousness, I mean no one needs 300 dollars worth of presents every year, but at the same time:



Get together with your family. Use the 25th because they are used to it. Have a meal, and praise YAHUWEH before, after, and any other time during that period that you feel you should. Just make it plain that it's not christmas, it's winter. No wreaths, and trees, but yes to yummy treats (you know except for the hot cross buns). You have to remember that the torah is a protection for us an not salvation, and if you press to hard you are diving into legalism.

and just to through out another quote that really shone for me:



I mean I feel the same as all of you, but I live isolated from any other believers, and my family is very atheistic. I don't have control over my house hold. I'm subordinate to my mother still. So, my anti-christmas thrust was in telling them that I don't want presents, I won't decorate the tree, and most importantly that they understand my position. "And now, about and concerning, regarding and on account of, because of and with respect to the matters concerning food sacrificed in dedication to false god’s, polytheistic deities and idols: we see and perceive, observe and witness, know and experience, recognise and respect, understand and take note of, comprehend and discern, pay attention to and discover, notice and examine, inspect and behold that concerning this, “All of us, individually and collectively, have and hold, acquire and receive, own and possess ‘precise and correct knowledge, perception and discernment, intellectual understanding and insight’.” This “precise and correct knowledge, perception and discernment, intellectual understanding and insight” puffs up and inflates pride and arrogance, haughtiness and conceited, exaggerated self-importance and groundless self-conception; but nevertheless, the brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence builds up and prepares, sets up and plants, restores and establishes, founds and constructs, erects and promotes, confirms and produces growth by edifying and strengthening, enabling, instructing and improving."

Dear Friends,

I am the wife of the house (children are grown now). Last December (before I discovered YY) I started to assemble the Christmas tree (which I have obsessed on my whole life); each year it has been a beautiful creation. However, last December as I began to erect the tree, I just could not bring myself to continue; it was the first time that I felt absolutely no creative inspiration for its design, etc, so I put the tree back into the attic, and we had no tree at all, just an arrangement of red berries in a pewter pitcher. No one seemed to mind. This year I took the "Christmas" out of the annual family "Chronicle" letter, and plan to serve hot chocolate and maybe leg of lamb, and stick to snowmen and snowflakes; when people wish me a merry Christmas, I'll just say "shalom". My two grown children are angry with me because they believed everything I told them about God and His keeping His Word intact; they don't want to hear me say anything different now. When I say "Yahushua" they groan and say I have turned "Jewish" . . . I have been printing out sections of YY and taking them to friends' homes or Grandma's place; some people seem interested in reading it. Right now I am struggling with the decision to participate in the Salvation Army's Christmas kettle collection operation or not; it is a great way to raise money for the needy . . . Are there any YY people here in the Denver, Colorado, area?

Shalom

Hi Bridget, welcome to the forum.

I am no expert, but one answered your question above, KP wrote:



As KP relates, with the support of his wife, he acted to remove these things from his life.(and there is your answer(I think)):)

And that is what many of us are attempting to do, unfortunately we are having difficulty with the support part.

Hey dudes - I'm a wife and I've got it! There is always hope! Each time Rob has come to me with another crazy idea..."no pork, feast days, no church, no christmas...".I've sighed, given the "chirstian answer", prayed, read a little bit, cried, questioned, and then ended up saying ok then lets give it a go. Its not been easy and as mum to 3 little ones its hard not to see my kids to share in the fun their friends have. But each step has been easier. We will always have an element of christmas in our lives - i will never totally deprive my kids of gifts at christmas time but we have no decorations, etc. but what is fantastic is that i've found new ways to build special memories and each year the feasts get more and more emphasis and christmas/easter less. Our children know the Truth (as well as a 4 and 6 year old can). Wives will always put other people first - we worry about our kids and about the extended family. My biggest worry about not doing christmas is I dont want the grandparents to be sad and feel they are missing out on special times with their grandchildren. Rob on the otherhand doesnt really care about offended people!

Go easy on your wives (and husbands)...In the early days Rob would come storming in with his latest discovery and he had little patience to deal with my concerns and questions. He's learnt over the years that I wont get things as fast as him mostly because I'm too busy washing, cleaning, and feeding babies to be studying all day! But if he lets me take my time and ask the questions I need to ask as I'm ready to ask them then I will get there is the end. Pray for your wives and honour them for who they are right now, share your discoveries gently and with love, and do the washing up! - if they see you becoming a better husband as you honour Yahweh more they'll wonder whats going on and start asking more questions! :)