 Joined: 11/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Canada
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Are these terms contradicting? If Yahweh is only immanent, then there are no morals etc and man becomes god. If he is only transcendent then he has never revealed himself to us. They are both wrong, yet the idea still seems to be a contradiction. How can he be in and out at the same time. How do we resolve this?
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 Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120
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Shalom,
Read the following and see if it suffices.
Copyright Rev. Stanley L. Derickson Ph.D. 1992
BIBLICAL THEISM
BIBLICAL THEISM DEFINED: That which may be known about God from Nature and the Word of God. The term Biblical indicates that this theism is primarily from the Bible. Theism is the belief in the existence of a personal, knowable God.
Theissen defines theism as follows: "The belief in one personal God, both immanent and transcendent, Who exists in three personal distinctions, known respectively as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." (Thiessen, Henry C.; "LECTURES IN SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY"; Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1949, p 51)
Theissen introduces us to two terms that we should discuss.
Immanent = ".....to remain in place.....remaining or operating within a domain of reality or realm of discourse....." (By permission. From Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary copyright 1991 by Merriam-Webster Inc., publisher of the Merriam-Webster (registered) Dictionaries.)
Transcendent = 1 a: exceeding usual limits.....3 : transcending the universe or material existence....." (By permission. From Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary copyright 1991 by Merriam-Webster Inc., publisher of the Merriam-Webster (registered) Dictionaries.)
So, what does Immanent mean? He is here, He is not on vacation, He is not dead! HE is a real God that is here and present, watching over His creation.
So, what does "transcendent mean? He is bigger than all of His creation.
So, if we speak of an immanent and transcendent God we are speaking of a God that is bigger than all of creation, a God that is in control of the creation that he has created.
Now, in all of that where is the connection to morals and man becoming god? How do we read that Yahweh being immanent cannot be transcendent, and that being transcendent He cannot/has not revealed Himself? This is Islamic thinking, if I am not wrong, and is setting up a classic "straw man" argument. |
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom. |
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 Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470  Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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bitnet wrote:
Now, in all of that where is the connection to morals and man becoming god? How do we read that Yahweh being immanent cannot be transcendent, and that being transcendent He cannot/has not revealed Himself? This is Islamic thinking, if I am not wrong, and is setting up a classic "straw man" argument.
I would agree. |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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Joined: 11/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Canada
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Thanks for the response bitnet. I didn't know this was Islamic but I'm pretty sure it's new age as well.
Their way of thinking is that god, or usually some sort of mother or goddess is immanent only, rejecting the idea of transcendence outright. Since there is no transcendence, there is no sovereignty, since there is no sovereignty there are no pre-written morals, rules etc, other then what the sum total of mankind make. I guess the mistake in their logic is offering two options without the possibility of a third option. If both of the options are wrong God is only immanent/God is only transcendent we arrive at a wrong answer and ultimately a false conclusion. My only question would be theism, implies that God is in control of his creation, which makes sense, but how does free will fit into that? I'm pretty sure there must be a logical answer or my thinking is wrong somewhere but I forgot to sleep tonight lol so i'm having a hard time thinking.
Thanks
Mike.
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Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120
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Er, putting it into perspective, New Age may be Islam V2.0 minus the Hadith, Sunnah and Syariah... It's trying to box-in the Creator and limit Him. Just as we say that He cannot lie, they may say, "Ahah! You see! Your god is limited and cannot do everything whereas our god says that he is a great deceiver as well. Therefore he must be the real god as he can do everything whereas yours is limited." Now wrap your tired mind around that thought! |
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom. |
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Joined: 11/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: Canada
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Hahaha, sorry bitnet, I got some sleep so I can understand basic thoughts now. That is truly fascinating about New Age and Islam. After some thought I can see your defintley right. It's funny how many counterfiets of the real deal there are and the strange twisted logic the people who support these fakes will go to in an effort to prove the real deal wrong. Thanks bitnet.
Mike
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