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Offline Robskiwarrior  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 21, 2008 7:50:59 AM(UTC)
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I added this to twilight coz its a strange one...

Is there anywhere in scripture that states that Yah spontaneously manifested jewels, gold dust, gold fillings, oils and other things from nothing. Do you believe that He would do this in regards to your relationship with him and/or scriptual backing.

I am a little lost in regards to the testimony of others speaking about the instantaneous spontaneous manifestation of jewels and other stuff, when the "presence of God" is in the room...
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Offline Icy  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:19:49 AM(UTC)
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This would seem contrary to Yahuweh's nature. For one, things like that could only happen by some devine force (or trickery on Satan's part). Yahuweh does not typically do something like that to "prove" his existence. Second (and perhaps more important), while he does bless us, he is not really into giving us things that are going to instantly gratify our mortal desires, especially when Yahusha tells us that it is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle. Why would he then give someone instant riches? Logically, it just doesn't make sense.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:47:58 PM(UTC)
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Icy wrote:
This would seem contrary to Yahuweh's nature. For one, things like that could only happen by some devine force (or trickery on Satan's part). Yahuweh does not typically do something like that to "prove" his existence. Second (and perhaps more important), while he does bless us, he is not really into giving us things that are going to instantly gratify our mortal desires, especially when Yahusha tells us that it is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a rope to pass through the eye of a needle. Why would he then give someone instant riches? Logically, it just doesn't make sense.


I'm glad that you've said this, because this has been my path of logic. I don't doubt the fact that Yah could do all those things, BUT why would he...

And if He is not doing these things, who is? There seems to be many reports of jewels appearning in meetings where "The LORD" has been invited into. Although I would have to say that the majority of these reports seem to come from Toronto Airport Church.

I suppose I am trying to discern whether Yah would do this, and if so why? And if it's not Him, would it be something or someone else... could Satan produce gems, gold dust and other things?

Gold fillings really don't make sense to us. If I was Yah surely I would just restore the tooth?

We've been thinking about this a lot today, mainly because there is an event at our old Church where a guy called Tom Bentley's work/ministry in the "Florida healing revival" is being spoken about by Curtis Hinds. We were asked what we thought of Tom...

There was a time when I would've said "God can do what He wants to do, why not make these things happen" But then we're told to measure things against Scripture and take things to Yah. In my new mindset this just does not add up, and because of that reason I am concerned.
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Offline kleeb  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:25:31 PM(UTC)
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I think you're right Rob. The more we really yada Yahweh, the more we can see when things just don't seem right. Yahweh doesn't do magic tricks. Lee
Offline bitnet  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:19:08 PM(UTC)
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Shalom All,

Let's approach this from a different non-Scriptural angle. Does anyone know of a fuzzy-haired Hindu mystic called Sai Baba? Among other things apparently he could cause ash or gold statues or miniature bibles and crucifixes and pictures to appear from nowhere, and could also be in more than two places at the same time! Now whom do you think is the power behind those miracles?
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:19:09 AM(UTC)
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Well this is where I am concerned Bit, because I believe that these people 100% believe that it is Yah. If they can feel the spirit of "the LORD" moving in the room, and gems and stuff are appearning, who is moving in the room?! What spiritual event is actually happening? Is it hype, or is it 100% Satan? Can you have Yah and Satan working in the same room? I understand that Satan is still under Yah's command in whatever way it is... whats going on... lol
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Offline bitnet  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:46:22 AM(UTC)
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If people put their trust into non-Scriptural miracles, then it is their folly. Indeed, Scripture states that many shall be deceived by works, done by people coming in His name, so it would be wise to be cautious about miracles. If they do not observe the basics in Scripture -- the 10 Commandments -- then we should know how to view these miracles. Would Yahweh continually bless false prophets with His power to fool innocent people? No, for He is Truth. If some people profess to be believers and followers of the Creator, do they do the things that He asks them to do? It would be hard to deny good things that happen to people as sometimes Yahweh works by grace healing people who call out to the Creator in good faith. But it would be foolish to ascribe all miracles as belonging to Him as even Pharaoh's magicians could make a stick into a snake.

Shalom Aleichem
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:38:48 AM(UTC)
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I know you are right bit, I just cant help thinking of my friends though...

I have done a little search through the NLT bible for Jewels, Yah likes to describe with Jewels gold and silver - and the only really good use of physical jewels I can see was the use of them in the temple, under Yah's direction. Although they were not magically appeared out of nothing. Something that also caught my attention about the jewels in particular, is that when they appear they are always cut into the traditional diamond... why would Yah copy man in the way we cut gems?
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Offline CK  
#9 Posted : Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:18:09 PM(UTC)
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Todd Bentley is a Joel Osteen on steroids. Recommend staying away from his teachings. It is profane fire (remember Aaron's two sons?) I recently watched several of his videos on YouTube. He seldom quotes Scripture and is big on signs and wonders (to fool even the elect, if that were possible). An acquaintance of mine is hooked on the gold dust/jewels stuff. It's an emotional addiction that some people just can't shake. Sad, but true. A lot of standing in the gap is required here.

A good friend of mine recently attended a prophectic conference not too far from where I live. She left appalled and very unsettled. She is a Yahuweh Almighty Yahushua believer, and what she experienced made her terribly uncomfortable. Apparently during the presentations, they broadcast a live telephone conversation with Bob Jones, another signs and wonders guru (Bob claims he is in touch with a dead Hindu medium/mystic, or some such thing). Anyway Mr. Jones said he had a vision of a bald eagle coming out of Canada, swooping down through the states of Washington, Oregon, and California, then swooping eastward across the U.S. Turns out Bob's wife interpreted the vision for him saying the bald eagle was Todd Bentley (Todd is bald, body pierced, and very tatooed.) Mr. Bentley is all over the Florida stuff like a cheap suit. Be warned that both Todd Bentley and Bob Jones talk to a female angel that I believe they call Emma. This is way out there kind of stuff. You can check out all of this stuff on-line. The adversary is having a field day. The wolves are thick among the sheep, and the sheep are fleeced regularly. I read what Bob Jones said in the telephone conversation and it was as clear as mud.

Andrew Strom, a street preacher from New Zealand, was recently interviewed regarding the Florida Healing Revival and Todd Bentley. Andrew preaches LORD and Jesus, not Yahuweh and Yahushua, but I have great hope for him. :o) He left the prophetic movement some years ago because he came to realize the 'sham' of it all. As he put it, there are many good people in the movement who are being terribly mislead. People who become entrenched in these things do not realize they are trusting in man and not in Yahuweh. Their ears are being tickled. Remember: Satan thinks like a man, ergo he knows what man likes to hear. One of the main things overlooked in these man forced revivals is that repentance comes before revival! Yahushua said it was a wicked generation who sought signs/miracles.

And yes, Robski, the goodness of Yah and the evil of Satan can and do often occupy the same room. Scripture is full of such examples of good and evil in the same place at the same time. And the world is full of such examples as well. This is temporary, however. When Yahushua haMashiac comes, he will put an end to such double occupancy.

Father, let us not to be deceived, nor become deceivers. We pray for our brothers and sisters who have unwittingly fallen under the adversary's spell. Awake them from their sleep O'Yahuweh our Mighty One. In Yahushua's name, please let it be so.

Edited by user Monday, May 26, 2008 8:42:14 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Robskiwarrior  
#10 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2008 1:41:44 AM(UTC)
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Thanks CK that was a great reply. :)
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Offline CK  
#11 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2008 12:24:37 PM(UTC)
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Robski - You might want to check out http://www.geocities.com...torfound_2/Deception.htm At this site you will find a 3 chapter article by Derek Prince called "Protection from Deception, Navigating Through The Minefield of Signs and Wonders" produced in 1996. While Mr. Prince does not apply the Names, except in one comment, he does provide some good Scripturally based information, and food for thought.

Always ask Father for discernment in all reading, seeing and hearing!

May Yahuweh bless you with wisdom, revelation, and discernment! May He give you boldness and strength to fight the good fight.
Offline Icy  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:08:32 AM(UTC)
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I like Derek Prince. His "Fathers and Husbands" was a great read before my daughter was born. He is much like kp, in that he has 12 adopted children.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:13:02 AM(UTC)
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yes I have had a read of his info, he is making logical judgements based on evidence presented in scripture... its refreshing!
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Offline Matthew  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:23:43 AM(UTC)
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Rob, I share your concern. My old church went through the same thing, especially a church in a neighbouring town. They claimed that gold dust fell from the heavens, they even collected it off the ground in a little see-through bank bag. Some also claimed to of been given gold fillings in their teeth, I know of a person who said he felt pressure on his teeth and was lead to have a look at his teeth in the mirror, to which he saw gold fillings. I hear by the grapevine that some even have the sign of the cross engraved on them. How they justify it as being from God is through the understanding of Him bestowing His Church (read: bride) with gifts of gold before the wedding ceremony.

I think the engraving of the cross is the final nail in the coffin.

But yes, I'm concerned for my friends too, what about them, baptised in the name of Jesus, praying in tongues (blabbering) Christians (at least one of my friends that I know of has stopped this, he seemed to of realised this error)? Is their salvation genuine or are they being mislead? I came out of that environment and my salvation felt genuine as I had a desire for Him as well as believed in the Atonement. But from when I last spoke to them, after introducing YY, FH and TOM they seem to be digging deeper. I need to check up on them again, but another of my mates seemed to take it quite seriously, in a positive way, when I was discussing the Names issue as well as the importance of understanding the Torah and associated Feasts. But with them I try come in from the prophetic side, the FH side, as it appeals to them, I also like copying and pasting parts of all the books for them, especially the sections where kp explains the metaphors.

It's funny how Christians call Yahushua as a Man of Parables but yet don't realise that He spoke the same way in the Torah by using metaphors? He is the Word!

Bit summed it up nicely:

bitnet wrote:
If they do not observe the basics in Scripture -- the 10 Commandments -- then we should know how to view these miracles. Would Yahweh continually bless false prophets with His power to fool innocent people? No, for He is Truth.


But in amongst it there are gold nuggets of Truth, in which I believe Yah uses to His advantage.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:45:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Light1  
#15 Posted : Sunday, June 1, 2008 4:14:37 PM(UTC)
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Offline Robskiwarrior  
#16 Posted : Monday, June 2, 2008 12:14:25 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Matthew - yea, thats what my head is going through!!

Light - nice links. :) thanks!

although I don't agree with some of his views, he does make some good points. He's a little KJVish...

EDIT:
Ok I really dont like his stance, I think he is right, but hes wrong in soo many other ways.

Edited by user Monday, June 2, 2008 1:56:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Light1  
#17 Posted : Monday, June 2, 2008 5:45:39 AM(UTC)
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Well, the KJV is good, plus you can use it with Strong's concordance to check a word out if you want to do amplification and don't have the cash for research software. I've been using it again for the last few months and enjoy it. :)
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