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Offline Icy  
#1 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 5:32:06 AM(UTC)
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This is Yow'el.
I thought I should update this post to reflect the information we found regarding the dating of the Miqra'ey.
The previous dates we posted were based upon Hebrew tradition, which we unfortunately found to be rife with corruption from Rabbinical thinking.

Tables of these dates and background information about dating each year's called-out assemblies can be found in the Miqra'ey chapter of the Called-Out Assemblies volume of Yada Yahweh.

Edited by moderator Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:35:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Updated to reflect 2009 research about moon phases

Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Monday, April 7, 2008 3:46:09 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for that Icy!

My question is concerning preparation for Passover, when we cook lamb should it be prepared over a fire? And on which evening, after the first sunset (19 April 08) or before sunset the following day (20 April 2008), just before Unleavened Bread starts?

I know we don't require to actually have a live lamb for 4 days prior and then slaughter it on Passover, but are there any family members (on this forum) who have done this before, experienced it?
Offline Icy  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 8, 2008 1:13:03 AM(UTC)
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I haven't done it before. But, I am sure that you need to remove all leven from your house (that includes bread with leven in it) by sundown April 19. The lamb was to be slaughtered at twilight at the end of Nissan 14, which would be just before sunset on April 20. So, roasting and eating the lamb would end up being the evening of April 20, the first day of Unleavened Bread.
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:15:02 PM(UTC)
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In our enthusiasm to keep the Torah of Yahweh, let us not forget what the removal of leaven means: the elimination of sin and its insidious, corrupting influence in our lives. That's what Yahweh was really getting at.

kp
Offline Yada  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 8, 2008 3:37:43 PM(UTC)
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Our webmaster recently asked me how I intended to celebrate/observe these Miqra. I thought I would pass along the question. Any thoughts?
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Offline shalom82  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 9, 2008 12:04:21 PM(UTC)
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Shalom Icy,
I have a quick question. Isn't the Pesach meal also on the evening of the 19th (Saturday Evening)?

Friday Evening to Saturday Evening (Aviv 14) Slaughter
Saturday Evening to Sunday Evening (Aviv 15)Passover meal (on evening of 19th)/1st day of unleavened bread
Sunday Evening to Monday Evening (Aviv 16) First Fruits/ 2nd day of unleavened bread/Omer 1

Yibarekhekha YHWH,
Shalom82

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Offline Icy  
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 10, 2008 1:51:56 AM(UTC)
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Unless I read my calander wrong, Aviv 14 definantly starts at sundown April 19, which is Saturday. The slaughter then does not occur until twilight (Exodus 12:6). If a day does not start until three stars are visible in the sky, that would mean that twilight is the end of the day. Although, according to the definition of "twilight" it could be the morning, but it is more commonly the evening. Does anyone know the Hebrew word that was used here (sorry, I don't have a resource in front of me)?

So, Aviv 14 starts sundown April 19, Saturday.
Slaughter is twilight April 20, Sunday.
Meal is Aviv 15, Sunday evening, Unleavened Bread starts.
Aviv 16, April 21, Monday evening, First Fruits.

That lines up with what Yada calculated above. The question seems to be when the meal is eaten, but if you read Exodus 12:2-8, you will see that they eat the meal at the end of Aviv 14. Even if twilight is supposed to be morning (which actually might make sense), they are to eat the meat that night. So, a slaughter in the morning would give a whole day to prepare the meat and roast it before the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread starts. Although, if we look at what this all pointed to, Yahushua did not die until near the end of the Passover day. So, that would seem to indicate the slaughter was not in the morning, unless you count the whole torturing ordeal as part of the slaughter.
Offline bitnet  
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:18:17 AM(UTC)
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Shalom All,

I am getting a little confused by this... We are to celebrate the Passover this year with a dinner on Saturday night, 19 April 2008, right? If this is the case, then the slaughter should be before the dinner and not after the dinner, right?


Icy wrote:

So, Aviv 14 starts sundown April 19, Saturday.
Slaughter is twilight April 20, Sunday.
Meal is Aviv 15, Sunday evening, Unleavened Bread starts.
Aviv 16, April 21, Monday evening, First Fruits.



Pardon me if I seem a bit dense on this but this is the first time for us to celebrate Passover properly in a long time -- perhaps ever -- as the previous Christian Pesach meals were usually held one day too early to purposely coincide with the Last Supper, which we know was not the Pesach meal. Please help clarify as we have only 1 week left and I have to start preparations! Someone also suggested to go have a lamb shank meal at a restaurant (no bread, of course) and then adjourn to a home for discussion. Would this be acceptable?

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Offline shalom82  
#9 Posted : Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:22:25 PM(UTC)
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Shalom Icy,
For the sake of getting things right since we are following the rabbinic model I went to askmoses.com. Here was my dialogue with one of their in house Q n A'ers. ( I am Baruch)

Baruch : if the temple were still standing this year the lambs would be slaughtered at twilight on April 19th (Nissan 14) and the Passover Meal would be eaten on the night of April 19th (Nissan 15). Is my reckoning correct?
Mrs E. : Yes, we would be bringing lambs as sacrifices during passoever were there a Temple
Baruch : So everything I said was correct?
Mrs E. : I would have to look at the dates more carefully lol, but it sounds right - erev pesach bring sacrifices, eat meal over night so no food remains...
Baruch : Thankyou Mrs. E.
Baruch : Hope you have a blessed Passover
Mrs E. : In Jerusalem. Not on Main st...

Later I asked another Q n A'er

Baruch : If the temple was still standing in Yerushalayim this year...the Passover lambs would be slaughtered between 3 and 5 on April 19th (Nissan 14), and the Pesach meal would be eaten on the night of the 19th (Nissan 15). Are my conclusions correct?
Rabbi Smoller : Welcome. I'll be with you in a moment...what's on your mind
Rabbi Smoller : yes

These are the calendars I got from several different sites:
http://www.hebcal.com/he...s=nh&.s=Get+Calendar
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/view/month.htm
http://graftedin.com/events.html
I admit that the calendars would be a lot more easy to decipher if they didn't all just call it Pesach.
But from what I have been able to understand Erev Pesach is the Day of slaughter/preparation...at on that night (actually the next day) the Passover meal is eaten.

I have to believe that this is the correct chronology

Friday Evening to Saturday Evening (Aviv 14) Slaughter before Evening on Saturday
Saturday Evening to Sunday Evening (Aviv 15)Passover meal (on evening of 19th)/1st day of unleavened bread
Sunday Evening to Monday Evening (Aviv 16) First Fruits/ 2nd day of unleavened bread/Omer 1

I think bit that this would be the correct chronology for Pesach observance:
Friday:Daytime (Nissan 13)-Observant Yahudim remove Chametz before sabbath and before 14th of Aviv so as not to disturb the Sabbath...not that I am mandating or suggesting...but just giving a FYI
Friday Night (beginning of Nissan 14)- Memorial Supper of the Messiah (Once again not a seder but a practice run...an explanatory meal that explains the true meaning of the upcoming event)
Saturday (ending of Nissan 14) between 3 and 5- Day of Slaughter: Mark the Messiah's Pesach offering/Roast the Lamb
Saturday Evening (waning of Nissan 14 into Nissan 15)- Partake of the Pesach Meal into the night (Beginning of UB)
Sunday Morning's Dark Hours (Nissan 15)- Burn up remaining Lamb before Morning
Sunday-Mark the Purification/Eat unleavened Bread
Sunday Evening-(Nissan 16) Start of Yom HaBikkurim) Omer Day 1
Monday (Nissan 16)-First Fruits Omer Day 1 (Cont.)
And So on....

I hope and pray that this will not be seen as me trying to be prickly or contentious. That is the farthest thing from my mind. Please forgive me if I am in error and by all means show me where my error lies for the edification of all of us.

Yibarekhem YHWH (YHWH Bless you (All))
Shalom82



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Offline Icy  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 11, 2008 1:31:11 AM(UTC)
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Shalom Shalom,

I don't see it as you being contentious at all. We are just trying to get the day right here. I agree with everything you say when we just talk in Hebrew days (Aviv or Nissan). What you have there is exactly what I have been saying. As for the Gregorian dates though, when exactly does Nissan 14 start? Yada calculated that it starts the evening of Saturday the 19th, which is what I also seem to get. You have that Nissan 14 starts on the evening of Friday the 18th. It is hard to tell when you look at a Gregorian calander and they have the Feasts on there, or put something like "Nissan 14" in the same 24 hour day as "April 19". Does that mean that Nissan 14 starts on that day, or that a majority of that day is Nissan 14? I see it as that is when it starts, that evening, but it would seem you hold the other position that it started the night before.

So, it would seem we are in agreement Scripturally, which is good. We just differ on man's Calander, which is basically insignificant.
Offline bitnet  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 11, 2008 4:56:16 AM(UTC)
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Shabbat Shalom Brothers and Sisters,

Good! We've pinpointed the dates according to Scripture, and it seems that after looking at those Hebrew calendars we should be having the seder meal on Saturday night, 19 April and not Friday night, 18 April. Are we in agreement? Now, what about Sukkoth? :-))

Yahweh's Blessings Upon You All
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Offline Icy  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 11, 2008 6:03:25 AM(UTC)
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I do not know if we are in agreement on the Gregorian calendar. As I have stated above, I see Nissan 14 starting the evening of April 19, and Yada seems to agree, but others do not. KP also seems to agree:
Quote:
Passover (Nisan 14) this year is on the Sabbath, April 20. If you were going to have a seder, you'd slaughter the lamb and get it roasting before sundown. You'd also have to have all the leaven out of the house by this time. After sundown (now the 15th of Nisan) you'd have the meal. I don't know how the Jews handle the case of "erev Pesach," the day of preparation, falling on a Saturday.
Though technically on the day of Passover (because it was after sundown), the Last Supper wasn't a "Passover meal," for the lamb hadn't been slain yet. In 33, the Last Supper was on Thursday night. The betrayal, trials, mocking, and scourging took place during the night and into Friday morning. Yahshua was crucified on Friday afternoon, entombed before sundown, and rose sometime after sundown Saturday (but probably closer to the following dawn--still the same Hebrew "day") on Sunday Nisan 16.

ken


So:

When, exactly, on the Gregorian Calander does Nissan 14 start?
Offline Mike  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 11, 2008 7:12:00 AM(UTC)
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Swalchy,

The new moon sliver was sighted at sunset on April 6 here in Texas and also in Missouri (central US time zone). So for us the first day of the month was sunset April 6 to sunset April 7. GMT is 6 hours ahead of us. Did anyone in England sight the new moon sliver or was it cloudy?
Offline Tiffany  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 11, 2008 10:11:03 AM(UTC)
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Hey everyone,

I am having a ton of people over for dinner on the 19th! We are going to eat and enjoy the company of other believers, that’s all I can say. And honestly I think that if we do what Yah commands which is to remember I am pretty sure he will show up, as I have invited Yah and many others to celebrate with me!! One week and counting, have a great week full preparation!

Tiffany
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:40:04 AM(UTC)
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nice researching guys :)
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Offline bitnet  
#16 Posted : Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:50:54 AM(UTC)
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Shalom All,

YAY! Hurrah! We've got this down pat and secure... and would this mean that the other Miqra dates shall then be easier to determine?
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Yada  
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:53:27 AM(UTC)
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I thought I'd post the following from: Yada Yahweh, Book II : Called-Out Assemblies, Understanding the Basics, Chapter 2, Pecach Miqra', Passover Outcalling. You can read the complete chapter here.

Quote:
Today, since the blood of the Perfect Sacrificial Lamb - Yahushua - has been shed so that we might live, we do not need slaughter another lamb. But we do need to observe the Miqra and keep the appointment with Yahuweh. The date is not difficult to establish. Passover is marked on most every secular calendar as the 14th day following the new moon closest to the spring equinox.

On that day each year we should observe the Pesach symbolically. I recommend doing as much of what Scripture says as possible. Celebrate the Feast with your family, eating a meal of roasted lamb and unleavened bread, just as the first celebrants did. And while you and your family are reminiscing over our freedom from the bondage of sin, read about the first Passover in Exodus 12 and 13. Then qara/read the prophecies in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 that speak so vividly of what actually happened and why it occurred that way. Follow this by a review of the eyewitness accounts, the demonstration of His love and provision starting in Matthew 20-28, Mark 11-16, Luke 18-24, and/or John 11-21.

Strike Easter from your vocabulary and your calendar and follow Yahuweh’s instructions and Yahushua’s example. Keep the qodesh/set apart appointment with God and celebrate the Miqra of Passover each year.
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Offline Yah Tselem  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:20:20 AM(UTC)
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ICY,
Hi. On your original post, shouldn't the 2010 unleavened bread be 7 days and not one day? Just want to make sure I did not miss something. Thx
Offline Icy  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:22:20 AM(UTC)
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Thanks, Yah Tselem, I fixed it.
Offline Matthew  
#20 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:11:52 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
YAY! Hurrah! We've got this down pat and secure...


For some reason I still don't get it.

According to Exodus 12 the Israelites were to slaughter the lamb at twilight on the 14th day of the month, smear the doorposts with blood, and eat the meat that same night as Yahuweh was going to pass through Egypt to strike down the first born. Was this the twilight that started the 14th day or the evening that ended the 14th day?

Wasn't Yahushua crucified at twilight towards the end of the 14th day, just before Unleavened Bread starts? From my understanding that would mean the Israelites would be eating Passover the same night that Unleavened Bread starts.

From that I understand we are to eat Passover this Sunday (20 April 2008) evening, towards the end of the 14th day. It says in Exodus 12 to eat it that same night, does this mean after sunset when Unleavened Bread had already started. By the word "night" I gather the sun had already set.

And what about the night vigil for Unleavened Bread, would it be the night of the 15th, as in continuing to stay awake after Passover, symbolysing the descent of Yahushua's soul into Hades and Him having to endure separation on our behalf as well as symbolysing the same time Yahuweh passed over Egypt to pass judgement. Or is it the following night going into First Fruits?

And can someone help clear up this for me, in Exodus 12:18 it says one must eat unleavened bread from the evening of the 14th day until the evening of the 21st day, then in Leviticus 23:6 it says Unleavened Bread starts on the 15th day of the month and lasts 7 days long.

Edited by user Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:10:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Icy  
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 7:55:46 AM(UTC)
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Matthew, you have it right, but are second guessing.

I have been trying to get the point across (and I think we are all in agreement) that the lamb is slaughtered at the end of the 14th. The meal is then eaten at the begining of the 15th day. This is right in line with Yahushua dying at the evening of the 14th day. So, yes, the Passover sacrifice is eaten on the first day of Unleavened Bread.

The disagreement seems to be on what days these are on the Gregorian Calander. Passover should start the evening of the 19th, so the evening of the 20th, you would be eating the symbolic meal.

The night vigil would also be that same night.

Yes, you eat bread without leaven on Passover as well, if you count the day, they equal 8 days that you are without leaven (14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21), but the Feast of Unleavened Bread starts on the 15th and lasts 7 days.

I hope that clears up your confusion.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#22 Posted : Monday, September 29, 2008 5:17:53 AM(UTC)
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TOOT TOOT!

Trumpets has arrived...

So what are you doing this year?
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Offline kp  
#23 Posted : Monday, September 29, 2008 7:47:57 AM(UTC)
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My wife and I are having some believing friends over. We'll share a meal and discuss what the day is all about, dig through the scriptures and get amazed all over again. Is it just me, or is the excitement, the palpable awareness of God's truth becoming more and more evident in your circles of believing friends as well? Seems like in these last days, Yahweh is busy "dividing the room" between people who are eagerly awaiting His return and those who think we're all crazy as bedbugs.

kp
Offline CK  
#24 Posted : Monday, September 29, 2008 6:30:15 PM(UTC)
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I like the following site. It's interesting to surf around in it and learn. Enjoy.

http://templeinstitute.org/
Offline Devildog  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:04:52 AM(UTC)
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Sitting home thinking about my Father and His Trumpets observance. I hope everyone is well, and happy. Over the meal last night, I was thinking. Scripture reads that this is a Sabbath-hence the reason I am home today but it also says that there shall be a burnt offering and I don't even know how to go about one of those so I have no plans for a burnt offering. What's up with these burnt offerings? Are we to observe the Sabbath part but not the offering part? Why, or why not?

Should kids go to school on this day?

I was also thinking: if trumpets is symbolic of the rapture, I thought the event was simply snatching up His family and leaving the rest. The following verses, as translated, do not sound like the "rapture" to me because not only are souls being accepted,... souls are also being rejected. This doesn't happen during the "rapture", does it?

“Then, two will be in the field. The one will be taken to be brought alongside and one will be sent to the place of separation.” (Matthew 24:40)

“Two will be grinding at the mill and one will be taken to be brought alongside, acknowledged and accepted, taken away to associate as My companion, claimed, procured, and received and one will be sent to the place of separation.” (Matthew 24:41)



Furthermore, since Trumpets is to be a Sabbath, why are His family members depicted as working at the time they are harvested?


Offline Robskiwarrior  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:47:19 AM(UTC)
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Good to see you again DD :D

Devildog wrote:
Sitting home thinking about my Father and His Trumpets observance. I hope everyone is well, and happy. Over the meal last night, I was thinking. Scripture reads that this is a Sabbath-hence the reason I am home today but it also says that there shall be a burnt offering and I don't even know how to go about one of those so I have no plans for a burnt offering. What's up with these burnt offerings? Are we to observe the Sabbath part but not the offering part? Why, or why not?

Should kids go to school on this day?


I dont think they should, but I think it would stir up more trouble than its worth - so they went.

Devildog wrote:

I was also thinking: if trumpets is symbolic of the rapture, I thought the event was simply snatching up His family and leaving the rest. The following verses, as translated, do not sound like the "rapture" to me because not only are souls being accepted,... souls are also being rejected. This doesn't happen during the "rapture", does it?

“Then, two will be in the field. The one will be taken to be brought alongside and one will be sent to the place of separation.” (Matthew 24:40)

“Two will be grinding at the mill and one will be taken to be brought alongside, acknowledged and accepted, taken away to associate as My companion, claimed, procured, and received and one will be sent to the place of separation.” (Matthew 24:41)




Yes - KP puts it well in his recent addition here *click me*

Devildog wrote:

Furthermore, since Trumpets is to be a Sabbath, why are His family members depicted as working at the time they are harvested?


Some are - but remeber that firstly timezones will dictate when and what you are doing, our Trumpets started while America was still working. Personally I also think the picture was supposed to show the instantanious nature of what the Harvest is described as. Also I believe there will be those who have The Set Apart Spirit within them that will be working on those days - because they either dont know or can't get out of it. Remeber the Harvest is mainly a direct reaction of the removal of the The Spirit. Because She was promised to us to never leave us, we must leave with Her, otherwise Yah is breaking an agreement with us - which we know is impossible.

These are just my musings and might be completly off... so please find fault and educate me lol
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Offline Yah Tselem  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:47:22 AM(UTC)
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I stayed home from work and the kids stayed home from school. I wrote a long letter and left it on the table in case we left suddenly, then our friends and neighbors would find the letter and get an understanding of why people are missing. I quoted some of the Taruwah chapter and the paralambano chapter in the letter..
Offline Joe  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:44:41 AM(UTC)
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Devildog wrote:
Should kids go to school on this day?


Robskiwarrior wrote:
I dont think they should, but I think it would stir up more trouble than its worth - so they went.


I'm not one to insist upon not working on a sabbath. I occasionally do work around the house, work on Yada Yahweh, etc...
What's most important, in my opinion, is to make it a day set-apart / different than the others days.
That said, not doing work is important as well, since it's symbolic of us not being able to work for our salvation - that's Elohym's job.
I also keep in the back of mind that Yahweh ranked keeping the sabbath above not lying, stealing, committing adultery, and murdering!

Personally, I treat sabbaths as a time for doing things with my wife and kids.


My kids are home with all of us today - probably the only ones in the entire school. They're playing on the computer, watching SpongeBob Square Pants, and we all are going out to playgrounds, toy stores, etc... together.
I'm ignoring the mountain of frantic emails and phone calls from clients (Kind of-I can't resist reading them and seeing who's calling, but I'm not responding).


While it may not be a huge issue for the kids to go to school on the sabbath, the "it would stir up more trouble than it's worth" excuse is... well... lame. I understand the feeling, but I think that sentiment goes away for anyone who spends a little bit of time thinking about things from a bigger-picture perspective, however:

Think about what that says to Yahweh:
"I know this is not what you asked of me, but it's inconvenient and I would feel awkward around a whole bunch of people - most of whom I barely know."
This is even more of a slap in the face on a miqra' where we should be shouting with joy about being able to live with Yahweh while also providing a wake-up call to those who haven't gotten with the program yet.

Also, think about what message it sends to your kids. They may not notice it now, but what will they think when they look back on these times and wonder why they never made the sabbath a special day? More importantly, even at a young age, keeping a sabbath day is a great ice-breaker for talking to them about Yahweh and His plan for establishing a loving relationship with them.

It's depressing that so few know of Trumpets, and the few who take the day off are celebrating a less-than-worthless replacement holiday. However, I relish the opportunity this brings. Keeping my kids home while all their friends go to school, disrupting the carpool schedule for all the neighborhood parents, and upsetting a bunch of clients and my boss, all results in drawing extra attention to the significance of this day.


I was once where you are, but I've grown through being critical of myself. I hope you take this in its intended context - that I'm trying to help you see beyond where your current perspective is right now. If I thought you were a lost soul, I wouldn't have bothered. Being a heavy is not fun, but you, your family, and others like you who may read this post are "worth stirring up this much trouble for me."

Edited by moderator Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:43:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Robskiwarrior  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:40:42 AM(UTC)
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Yah Tselem wrote:
I wrote a long letter and left it on the table in case we left suddenly, then our friends and neighbors would find the letter and get an understanding of why people are missing.


now thats a good idea!

Joe wrote:

While it may not be a huge issue for the kids to go to school on the sabbath, the "it would stir up more trouble than it's worth" excuse is... well... lame. I understand the feeling, but I think that sentiment goes away for anyone who spends a little bit of time thinking about things from a bigger-picture perspective...



I think you are right Joe, it is lame. You have given me cause to re-evaluate and I thank you for that.

How do you handle the whole kids off school thing? Do you write a letter to school? In the UK, the law is quite stricked with regaurds to kids and school - thats more the reason I suppose - I dont want to call it a "religious holiday" because it isnt and I dont want to put that title too it either - so any advice would be very much appriciated. :)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline In His Name  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:12:31 PM(UTC)
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I have to agree with Joe as well. I didn't do much either, but could have, should have...will.

Reading this topic has given me a great idea for next year. I will gather up my family and disappear from our known world for a day. Leaving behind all of our phones and work and school and life, Just go somewhere to be with each other and learn and discover what the day is all about. If I can find some like minded brothers and sisters in my geographic area we will share the day in celebration with them. If not we will celebrate the day and the future day it represents.

I think I will go and start planning now.... and write my letter to those we leave behind.

“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Matthew  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:10:27 PM(UTC)
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Well I requested off work a few weeks ago, but my boss forgot about it until he received a reminder in his email. But I blame it on me, I should've reminded him last week. Work has been busy but my boss hasn't requested the need for an extra person even though I've recommended it. Anyway, I kindly offered my boss to work yesterday's evening shift, which he gratefully appreciated. But I did inform him Reconciliations and Tabernacles are approaching and I intend to take them off as prescribed by Torah. He knows that, plus he has some knowledge of "Jewish" culture so he understands.

This morning through to the mid-afternoon I did not come in to work, but my unbelieving wife took advantage of me being free so used me to transport her to one or two places for a few hours, we went to her mom's place and she left to do something with her mother while I just remained at her mother's place reading through the Taruw'ah chapter, even when she went to a shop or two I just read Taruw'ah. I came in the late afternoon to do the evening shift at work, the sun was up but the shift started at 5pm. I'm at work now and the sun set sometime after 5pm, the time now is 7pm. When I leave at 9pm I go to my wife's grandparent's place as they are celebrating Rosh HaShanah. And my wife has barred me from mentioning my understanding of this Feast in contrast to their understanding of it. Hmmm... I get the same words at Christmas and Easter time.

My unbelieving wife obviously works and doesn't take the day off, it's quite hard to explain the significance of this day to her, she usually shuts me out before I open my mouth, she doesn't want to hear. She works from home and would have me at my throat if I had left the children with her while I go do the evening shift, they get home quite late from school, that difference of 3 hours until the time they arrive home she gets a lot of work done, so the kids went to school this Taruwah. Am I happy about it? No! I will try have it changed for the next Feast, buy her flowers or something in order to keep the little kids at home. I'll take them to the park or something. This is my first year of celebrating the Feasts so I'm keen on improving with the next ones.

Even keeping the Sabbath is difficult with an unbelieving wife.

Great post Joe!!!
Offline Matthew  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:41:57 PM(UTC)
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Did any of you check the homepage of Yada Yahweh today, they had the following written on it:

Quote:
The Miqra' of Taruw'ah is a sabbath day beginning sundown September 29, 2008.
Taruw'ah, often called "Trumpets," is the first of three Miqra'ey which have not yet been fulfilled. Taruwah, which means to "shout for joy" and to "signal a warning," is prophetic of the harvest of souls known as the "rapture." Its purpose is two-fold: First, it is a day set apart to convey the plan of salvation presented in the first four Miqra'ey—joyously shouting the good news that Yahweh has provided a way to tabernacle with Him for now and eternity. Second, it is a day we are asked to signal a warning to those who have failed to take advantage of God's gracious gift.
To learn more about this Miqra', please read Called-Out Assemblies - Chapter 6.


Pretty cool!
Offline Joe  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:45:21 PM(UTC)
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It's really great to see such a positive response to my post, and that it was taken solely as a chance for everyone to reflect (myself included) upon how good of an effort we are making to spend more time with our family (Daddy, Mommy, Yahshua, and everyone else.).

I'm new at this Miqra'ey stuff as well, and am making it up as I go. I have finally started to get to a place where I've stopped blowing off all the stuff my family and I should be doing with Yahweh. So, when I see others where I was a couple of years or even just months back, I would like to help save them from wasting the time I did.

And everyone should keep in mind that we have no duty nor obligation to do anything, except maybe to our children.
My approach is to keep pushing myself to do a better job of showing my appreciation to Yahweh and setting a good example for my family and friends.
I don't expect to be perfect at it nor should anyone else. That hubris in itself would be counter to everything that Yahweh is trying to teach us and would be the antithesis of accepting Yahshua's gift.
I do enjoy coming up with new ways to observe His miqra'ey and become closer, though.
I'll try and post some of the stuff my family does on each of the out-callings some day. I'm sure many of you can help add to it, fill in gaps, or even inspire some ideas for others.

Also, I've been blessed with a great family who is very open-minded to learn as much as they can about Yahweh, and have no defined job with set schedules.
Making the huge transitions in my life and dedicating more time for Yahweh is far easier for me than it is for almost anyone else, especially since I was a devout aetheist and had nothing in my past to unlearn.
So, any criticisms from me should be taken with all of this in mind.
Offline Joe  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:35:39 PM(UTC)
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Robskiwarrior wrote:
now thats a good idea!




I think you are right Joe, it is lame. You have given me cause to re-evaluate and I thank you for that.

How do you handle the whole kids off school thing? Do you write a letter to school? In the UK, the law is quite stricked with regaurds to kids and school - thats more the reason I suppose - I dont want to call it a "religious holiday" because it isnt and I dont want to put that title too it either - so any advice would be very much appriciated. :)



With that in mind, in almost in case, I would simply call up the school and say that my kids aren't coming in because its the Miqra' of Trumpets and it's a sabbath day.
The only exception to this would maybe be if I was living in an Islamic country where my family's life might be in danger. But even then, I would simply lie about the reason.
I'm sure I don't fully appreciate the impact of such an approach in the UK, but I'm the kind of person that really doesn't care. For instance, I'm the kind of guy who asks, "How was Ba'al this morning?" when my Catholic in-laws come home from mass when they're visiting us. I'm also a person that let his credit rating get destroyed rather than pay a bank for an error they made. The TV doctor "House" is in many ways my idol.

So, again, take my opinions and approach with a grain of salt. However, I'm guessing that if you really think about, and maybe after a bit of time, you will eventually reach the same comfort level about taking a similar approach.
Offline Joe  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:04:23 PM(UTC)
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Matthew wrote:
Well I requested off work a few weeks ago, but my boss forgot about it until he received a reminder in his email. But I blame it on me, I should've reminded him last week. Work has been busy but my boss hasn't requested the need for an extra person even though I've recommended it. Anyway, I kindly offered my boss to work yesterday's evening shift, which he gratefully appreciated. But I did inform him Reconciliations and Tabernacles are approaching and I intend to take them off as prescribed by Torah. He knows that, plus he has some knowledge of "Jewish" culture so he understands.

This morning through to the mid-afternoon I did not come in to work, but my unbelieving wife took advantage of me being free so used me to transport her to one or two places for a few hours, we went to her mom's place and she left to do something with her mother while I just remained at her mother's place reading through the Taruw'ah chapter, even when she went to a shop or two I just read Taruw'ah. I came in the late afternoon to do the evening shift at work, the sun was up but the shift started at 5pm. I'm at work now and the sun set sometime after 5pm, the time now is 7pm. When I leave at 9pm I go to my wife's grandparent's place as they are celebrating Rosh HaShanah. And my wife has barred me from mentioning my understanding of this Feast in contrast to their understanding of it. Hmmm... I get the same words at Christmas and Easter time.

My unbelieving wife obviously works and doesn't take the day off, it's quite hard to explain the significance of this day to her, she usually shuts me out before I open my mouth, she doesn't want to hear. She works from home and would have me at my throat if I had left the children with her while I go do the evening shift, they get home quite late from school, that difference of 3 hours until the time they arrive home she gets a lot of work done, so the kids went to school this Taruwah. Am I happy about it? No! I will try have it changed for the next Feast, buy her flowers or something in order to keep the little kids at home. I'll take them to the park or something. This is my first year of celebrating the Feasts so I'm keen on improving with the next ones.

Even keeping the Sabbath is difficult with an unbelieving wife.

Great post Joe!!!



The biggest challenge for anyone making a change from the norm has to be getting your spouse to be on board with you.
This kind of situation can't be tackled with the kind of brute force I would normally use.

My only thought in this regard is to take everything upon yourself when trying to do something with your children on a sabbath and/or miqra'. Make sure your spouse knows that it's something that's important to you, and that while you would love for them to participate in whatever you're doing, you'd understand if they would rather take advantage of the opportunity to have some time for themselves or do whatever they would rather be doing. I can't stress enough that if they are potentially resistant to this at all, you need to make sure there is absolutely nothing about your plans that will put them out in any way. These big changes you're bringing into their life will make them hang upon anything they can muster against your actions that can somehow be argued as being unfair to them. They will even try to manufacture things and become incapable of having a rational discussion the more insecure they start to feel about the beliefs and opinions upon which they have based their lives so far.

Therefore, the burden falls on you to not only give them nothing that they can hold against you and your plans. The environment around your changes has to have such a favorable upside to them, that they eventually have no choice but to confront themselves with their insecurities and doubts. Over time, they will hopefully come around on their own. Pushing them too much will put them on the defensive, but not pushing them at all will let them wallow in their ignorance forever. And the best way to give them this push may be to simply see you, and hopefully the kids, enjoying your time getting to know Yahweh.

I hope this helps in some way.
Offline bitnet  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, September 30, 2008 6:51:13 PM(UTC)
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Shalom,

Good posts, Joe! We make it up as we go along trying to keep His Miqra'ey as we learn about it. I'm sure Robski appreciates your candour and I am certain that he'll wrangle something at the next Feast of Yahweh for his children. I, too, like Dr House and his unorthodox approach to solving problems. But unlike you, I do not poke at my family on Sunday. I am struggling with ways to approach them so that they do not reject and turn away from Yahweh in favour of Christ. By keeping and observing His Torah, I am hoping that they will eventually see that we still share the same Scripture (well, almost) but approach the Creator differently. I refuse to submit to the religious yoke of men, and although I know that I am far from perfect I have to continue to strive to be perfect as we are all encouraged to be perfect. Strange when you realise that you have a goal that cannot be attained... by yourself. You know that in this race to be perfect there is this chasm ahead and you know that you cannot get across but you have to believe that you can get across with the help of Messiyah Yahushua. Most people know of this chasm and think that since it is impossible to get across -- since God put it there -- then He must also accept that people shall stay on this side of the chasm and He must accept them as they are, warts and all. Some think so haughtily of themselves that they even say that they themselves shall get people across the chasm... and they all fall together like lemmings. Sigh!

So is there one approach to reach out to others? I think not. We should all read our circumstances and situation and try to tread gently. However, we should also not compromise Yahweh's Torah (teachings and Laws). Living in a multicultural multireligious multiracial place like Malaysia, we have all been taught that it is a good thing for social interaction and harmony that we accept each other's cultures and religions. We are all encouraged to have open houses on major festivals and invite friends of all races and religions to visit and share in the joy. Christians open house on Christmas, Muslims on Eid-Al Fitri, Hindus on Deepavali, Chinese during Chinese New Year... we have been doing this from before our independence in 1957. Things got on quite well until Mahathir Mohamed started his doctrine of racial superiority of the Malays and Muslims back in the 1980s. Since then, the social fabric has loosened and racial and religious gaps have set in between the Muslim Malays and the other races. Today we are further encouraged to visit each others' homes during festivals to foster better unity as we all realise that we have been and are being polarised by certain political powers. We always get invitations to visit and we used to visit each other to form social bonds. It is not a statement of belief in the other's religion or cultural practice but an affirmation of tolerance and acceptance of diverse beliefs in a heterogeneous society.

We had just received an invitation to visit a Muslim home for Eid-Al Fitri and we did go last year. However, this year I do not feel like going because I have learnt that Yahweh calls their feasts abominations and that His people are not to have any part of it. It is the same reason why we are also declining Christmas invitations, and only treat those holidays as opportunities for family gatherings when we do get together.

So two things crop up this year: we know that it is required to observe the Feasts of Yahweh, and that we should not observe feasts of Ba'al in any guise. People may call us uncompromising, religious bigots but more importantly we do not want want Abba Yahweh to call us unfaithful.

As for the Miqra dates stated by Yada, it is only a guesstimate and we have to determine it ourselves according to the instructions stated in Scripture. In Malaysia the Muslims have determined that they saw the moon on the night of 30 September so they are ending their Ramadan fast. I had relied upon them to call it accurately. I had also checked with several websites that showed the sliver of the new moon. However, I have since received word from a Nazarene that the new moon was not sighted in Israel last night. So this means that Yom Taruw'ah falls on evening 1 Oct to evening 2 Oct. and that the other Feasts shall have to be moved one day later. It is precisely this kind of imprecision that requires us to keep a sharp lookout, for we do not know either the hour nor the day (does this ring a bell?). So despite blowing the computer shofar (don't have the real one) last night, I shall do it all over again tonight.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Joe  
#37 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2008 7:42:48 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
... unlike you, I do not poke at my family on Sunday. I am struggling with ways to approach them so that they do not reject and turn away from Yahweh in favour of Christ. By keeping and observing His Torah, I am hoping that they will eventually see that we still share the same Scripture (well, almost) but approach the Creator differently. ....

So is there one approach to reach out to others? I think not. We should all read our circumstances and situation and try to tread gently. However, we should also not compromise Yahweh's Torah (teachings and Laws).


We of course all agree that taking such a hard-line approach with people isn't the best way to go in most situations. There is of course a deeper context to the berating of the in-laws that I should share. My in-laws are VERY religious Catholics. They are in the one-a-day mass class. They were initially thrilled to hear that I was no longer an atheist a few years ago. Since then, I've slowly taken opportunities to tell them a bit about my Scripture analysis, in a mostly non-confrontational way. We've had MANY "Lord/Ba'al" discussions, which always end with them not wanting to change and sticking with "Lord." They are in the 80s and that's what they're used to. Their only response (if ANY) when I bring up the topic is "God knows my feelings when I say 'Lord.'" I then respond by saying, "Since you don't argue that Ba'al and Lord are different, you won't mind if I call you a Ba'al worshipper." Not surprisingly, that elicits no response, . So, my "How's Ba'al?" comments are simply an extension of all that. It's my attempt at pushing them to come to a thought-out conclusion, and it's presented somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

My mother-in-law and I are not very shy about criticizing each other, and we know we need to be able to work out any issues because we're stuck with each other. She teases me almost every day about not having a job when we're together, and I tease her about her cooking being so bad that she won't even eat it (she's a vegan, but still cooks meat for all of us). So, we have an established base of giving each other a hard time. I've only been able to engage her husband once in any kind of discussion, and I just got a "You certainly have put a lot of time into this." He's obviously not interested in breaking his routine, and his mental acumen has declined a bit the last few years, so I don't harass him about anything.

So, obviously, the context of the audience is important. I'm not quite the bad boy that I may have attempted to portray myself to be.
Thank you bitnet for reminding everyone that we need to more often take a lighter approach when it comes to uprooting people from their current beliefs.
Offline Joe  
#38 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2008 7:45:56 AM(UTC)
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I forgot to mention that it's interesting to hear about the culture in Malaysia. Thank you for sharing that with us.
Personally, I would like to hear more stories about the country and cultures, especially where Islam comes into play.

Please let me know if you ever are inspired to start such a thread.
Offline Big Rich  
#39 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2008 12:54:48 PM(UTC)
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Joe wrote:
[...]I've only been able to engage her husband once in any kind of discussion, and I just got a "You certainly have put a lot of time into this." He's obviously not interested in breaking his routine, and his mental acumen has declined a bit the last few years, so I don't harass him about anything.[...]

I hate it when I get a response like that. In some ways that's almost worse than them actively rejecting what you brought to bear because you wonder why they wouldn't even bother to contradict you. Once I ran through pretty much everything to someone (festivals, proper Names, rejecting Ba'al, etymology of the word "religion", pagan roots of Christmas and Easter etc.), and was getting nods and "I think you're on to something" the whole way through. Then I wrap it up and get a "I'll have to think about it." I haven't heard any responce from him yet on this topic, and it's been over a month. I don't want to press, since I basically said all that was in my knowledge and power to say, but it just makes me wonder, if I was wrong in this person's sight, why didn't he just contradict me then?

I also got something like that the day I went back to school. My parents asked if I'd heard about the Vatican's ban on liturgical use of the the name Yahweh and I responded "yes." Then they said they didn't quite understand the rationale, so I went through the vowel/consonant pronunciation derivation, the third commandment word by word, the Masorites and so on. At the end I linked the replacement in speech of Yahweh with Adonai to Israel's falling away to Ba'al which I thought seemed like a not so subtile jab at those who follow this tradition. I thought I made myself clear, as I have on other occasions, on what I think about Catholicism, but they still made me go to Mass with them. I wanted to argue, but I was just thinking "Seriously, after all I said about the proper name you want to make me go and pray to 'The Lord'?" I guess I'll have to grow a backbone at some point in time, but it's kind of hard when you aren't yet providing for yourself.

All tangents aside, I just wish people would actually try and defend their positions instead of nodding at your arguments but ignoring the implications in favor of staying the same.
Offline BiynaYahu  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, October 1, 2008 5:12:23 PM(UTC)
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Love, and wisdom from our dad Big Rich,

No one is capable of being judgemental anymore. Most people add any information they receive onto all the other info they have stored up instead of rationally judging the new info, and changing their own perspectives accordingly.

CS Lewis said in the Screwtape letters, "It sounds as if you supposed that argument was the way to keep him out of the Enemy's(YAHUWEH) clutches. That might have been so if he had lived a few centuries earlier. At that time humans new pretty much if a thing was proved, and when it was not; and if it was proved they really believed it. They still connected thinking with doing, and were prepared to alter their way of life as the result of a chain of reasoning. But what with the weekly press, and other such weapons we have largely altered that. Your man has been accustomed. ever since he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing about together inside his head". I added that YAHUWEH for clarification it wasn't in the book obviously.

The only difference I would make to that statement is that I'm sure people have hundreds if not thousands of incompatible philosophies in their heads.


Your loving brother,
Mike
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline bitnet  
#41 Posted : Thursday, October 2, 2008 3:57:37 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
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Shalom,

It seems that since we can respond accordingly only by being blessed with the Ruach HaQodesh, it may be unreasonable for us to expect everyone to jump for joy at hearing the Good News. What I have come to do is to to seek out my own salvation via His Truth and seek others seeking the same. So it is pretty much a shell game -- where are the rest of the Family, here or there or here? That said, in seeking out each other, it is also incumbent upon us to share what we know with others. In doing so, we may lift the shell and let some Light in. Who knows which of us may respond, a switch suddenly going on inside after having seen the Light of the Word. So that is the summary approach where others are concerned. Those who listen but do not hear, perhaps their ears are closed by Yahweh. So we move on. Yahweh must have a plan for them, if not now then perhaps later. The ones we have to watch out for are those eager to harm and destroy us. I think we are fast learning who these people are and we should avoid them as much as possible. We can only pray that Yahweh takes care of us under His wings just as He shall also take care of them accordingly in due time.

Coming back to the main topic of this thread, I understand that Scripture says that the new moon shall be determined by at least two witnesses in Yahrushalayim who shall report to the High Priests if they sight the new moon with the naked eye. Now that this is not possible, how do we determine the new moon? Do we still rely on two eye-witnesses? Do they use the naked eye or are binoculars and telescopes allowed? Where shall they report their sightings? Are sightings in the Golan Heights or Eilat valid? Would it matter if the report is submitted by orthodox, Karaite or messianic Yahudym? What if it contradicts other reports? Who verifies it?

Along the same lines of thought, who verifies the ripe barley for the New Year? What if there are different opinions? These are just questions that I was thinking about now that I understand the difficulty in getting consensus on dates. As it is now, there are rabbinical calendars, Karaite calendars, messianic calendars... now wonder we cannot really determine the date and hour! How do we keep the Miqrym if we are unsure of the dates? I hope that I am not making a mountain out of a molehill but these are serious concerns and my journalistic instincts bode me to enquire for a sufficient explanation.

Edited by user Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:10:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Devildog  
#42 Posted : Thursday, October 2, 2008 5:12:57 AM(UTC)
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" Then Yahushua answered and said to them, “Do not grumble with one another. “No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him."
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#43 Posted : Friday, October 3, 2008 2:47:21 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:

Coming back to the main topic of this thread, I understand that Scripture says that the new moon shall be determined by at least two witnesses in Yahrushalayim who shall report to the High Priests if they sight the new moon with the naked eye. Now that this is not possible, how do we determine the new moon? Do we still rely on two eye-witnesses? Do they use the naked eye or are binoculars and telescopes allowed? Where shall they report their sightings? Are sightings in the Golan Heights or Eilat valid? Would it matter if the report is submitted by orthodox, Karaite or messianic Yahudym? What if it contradicts other reports? Who verifies it?

Along the same lines of thought, who verifies the ripe barley for the New Year? What if there are different opinions? These are just questions that I was thinking about now that I understand the difficulty in getting consensus on dates. As it is now, there are rabbinical calendars, Karaite calendars, messianic calendars... now wonder we cannot really determine the date and hour! How do we keep the Miqrym if we are unsure of the dates? I hope that I am not making a mountain out of a molehill but these are serious concerns and my journalistic instincts bode me to enquire for a sufficient explanation.



I have been thinking about this recently too, what with people celebrating at differnet times. Personally I use the scientific approach, that is we know the cycles of the moon and so we know when the new moon is. Nasa is my friend.

Bit and myself have just had a chat about this on Skype, and to be honest he does share a lot of the concerns that I share. I know that upholding the day around about the correct time is good, and I am sure that Yahuweh appreciates my flawed effort, but I would really like to understand the proccess of new moon sightings.

How was it and is it declared. Did Yada just use the Nasa data, like me, which is extreamly accurate, but its not based on naked eye sightings.

Whats the deal for you? How do you eat yours? (or sight yours...)
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Mike  
#44 Posted : Friday, October 3, 2008 8:33:39 AM(UTC)
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Personally, this year I used the sighting method. Last year I just assumed that the dates given were the correct ones and did not actually sight the moon.

I would encourage people to try and sight the moon at least once just for the experience if nothing else. There is the anticipation of sighting it. It is symbolic of waiting for Yahushua to return. It is better if you have a bunch of people and see who can sight it first. It can be hard to see. Look to the west at sunset, typically low to the horizon.

As far as I know, Moshe and the mixed multitude used the sighting method since they didn’t have telescopes, computers, high-speed internet access, NASA, Naval Observatory, etc.

“…“In the seventh (sabi’y – seventh in a series involving time, space, or a
set of things) new month (chodesh – renewed moon when the crescent
reappears), on the first (‘ehad – one in a series involving time, space, or a set of
things) of the renewed moon (chodesh – new month), there exists (hayah – was,
is, and will be) for you (lakem) a time to rest and reflect, a Sabbath
observance (sabbaton – a celebratory day which is set apart when man puts an
end to his work, ceasing and desisting from it), a memorial sign and mental
reminder of an inheritance right (zikrown – an official record which helps us be
mindful, recording, recalling, and remembering to claim possession of our
covenant-based inheritance) of sounding an alarm and shouting for joy
(taruw’ah – the use of a sophar ram’s horn trumpet to signal celebratory shouts of
good news and to blast warnings of an impending war), a cleansing and setapart
(qodesh) out calling (miqra’ – summons for an assembly of those called
out for the purpose of reading and recitation).” (Leviticus 23:24)

“Call out, summon and proclaim,
read aloud and announce the news to all publicly (qara’ – invite people to hear
you recite what is written and remember what has been spoken). Do not spare
your throat (‘al hasak garon – don’t withhold or restrain your mouth). Lift up
and raise (ruwm) your voice and your thunderous shout (qowl) like a sophar,
ram’s horn trumpet (sophar – symbol of the Miqra of Taruw’ah, blowing the
signaling trumpet), sounding out a vociferous signal (qowl) announcing the
news and reporting the message (nagad – sharing and declaring, proclaiming
and avowing, so as to make known) to My people (‘am) that they are in
rebellion and revolt (pesa’ – living in defiance). Loudly lament (hamah – be
audibly disturbed by) the sin (hatta’ – iniquity and guilt) of the house (bayit –
family and tribe, household) of Ya’aqob [named Yisra’el by Yahweh, the father
of the twelve tribes which comprise Yahuwdym].” (Isaiah 58:1)

Mat 24:42 “Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Master is coming.
Mat 24:43 “And know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Mat 24:44 “Because of this, be ready too, for the Son of Aḏam is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.
Mat 24:45 “Who then is a trustworthy and wise servant, whom his master set over his household, to give them food in season?
Mat 24:46 “Blessed is that servant whom his master, having come, shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 “Truly, I say to you that he shall set him over all his possessions.
Mat 24:48 “But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’
Mat 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,
Mat 24:50 the master of that servant shall come on a day when he does not expect it, and at an hour he does not know,
Mat 24:51 and shall cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites – there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Shalom,

Mike
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#45 Posted : Friday, October 3, 2008 1:25:01 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
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yea I actually had a look again for it tonight - but I live in the city, so the only horrizon I see is, well, houses lol - when I look out my window I see more houses. There isnt really a local and useful vantage point for us here in Manchester.

I also think with the lack of buildings, light polution and so on - it would be alot easyer to spot the new moon in that time, without the help of people with big telescopes lol. So without moving, how can I do it :) (please say move to the country away from people :D)

Thanks for the post - nice quotes too :)
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Offline Yah Tselem  
#46 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2008 9:59:01 AM(UTC)
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Rob, move to the country away from people. ;)
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#47 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2008 11:29:04 AM(UTC)
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Yah Tselem wrote:
Rob, move to the country away from people. ;)


lol I wish...
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline bitnet  
#48 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2008 5:16:02 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

While Robski plans his move to the countryside closer to Stonehenge for an unobstructed view of the sun, moon and stars (hee-hee), can someone please tell me again when Yom Kippur and Tabernacles is? I was informed by jojocc that the Karaites celebrated Yom Taruw'ah on 1-2 Oct based on the sighting of the moon. This is two days after the dates given by Yada, and a day behind the orthodox rabbis. Subsequently, the following Feast dates have to be re-adjusted. Sigh! Yada, Ken, Yada... HELP!
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Matthew  
#49 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2008 5:29:00 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
Shalom,

While Robski plans his move to the countryside closer to Stonehenge for an unobstructed view of the sun, moon and stars (hee-hee), can someone please tell me again when Yom Kippur and Tabernacles is? I was informed by jojocc that the Karaites celebrated Yom Taruw'ah on 1-2 Oct based on the sighting of the moon. This is two days after the dates given by Yada, and a day behind the orthodox rabbis. Subsequently, the following Feast dates have to be re-adjusted. Sigh! Yada, Ken, Yada... HELP!

I asked the same question and here was kp's answer, click here for original post:

Quote:
God's schedule does not depend upon atmospheric conditions---our ability to actually see the first sliver of the new moon. Yes, before telescopes and computers, sighting the first sliver of the new moon was a simple, low-tech way to tell when the new month had begun, but His truth is truth whether we can see it or not. (There's a lesson in there somewhere). The fact is, the moon reached its minimum on September 29 at 8:12 AM Universal time (formerly known as Greenwich mean time), which means (if I've calculated this right) that this state would have been reached at 12:12 Jerusalem time. This in turn means that Yom Teruah would begin (whether the cloud cover allowed verification from the ground or not) at sundown September 29, Jerusalem time, and would end at sundown September 30. I might remind y'all that we can expect the atmospheric pollution to be so thick on the definitive Day of Atonement and Feast of Tabernacles (in 2033) that nobody will have seen the moon with any clarity for years. But our ability (or inability) to visually verify the word of God does not impact its veracity.

kp

Here are the dates calculated by them, still the same dates, using NASA. Click here for original post posted by Yada which he got from Yada:

Quote:
2008 Starts At Sundown On Ends At Sunset On

Passover / Pesach Sabbath April 19 Firstday April 20
Unleavened Bread / Matsah Firstday April 20 Firstday April 27
FirstFruits / Bikurim Monday April 21 Tuesday April 22
Seven Sevens / Shavout Firstday June 8 Monday June 9
Trumpets / Taruw’ah Monday September 29 Tuesday September 30
Atonement / Kippur Wednesday October 8 Thursday October 9
Tabernacles / Sukkot Monday October 13 Monday October 20

Offline bitnet  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, October 8, 2008 1:12:08 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Shalom,

I knew that I had read that answer somewhere earlier and I had depended on it until this, er, cloudscreen came up. However, this means that we are out of sync with almost all the others, but I have no regrets about this. I am happy to be in sync with Abba Yahweh and y'all. :-)
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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