In my opinion I would think the owner of the land was aware of the poor being there, they would probably ask permission first or just pass a casual nod when entering the field. I don't think the poor were trying to sly past the owner and take advantage of the situation.

When I lived in South Africa I would give money to the poor or something to eat if they knocked on my door. But then when I returned the following day from classes I would find the same person on my doorstep again, or casually lying on the grass, expecting me to provide the same service. Not only that but my neighbour would tell me that they were there since early in the morning. And soon after that a friend of their's would arrive saying their friend told them about me and how generous I was. There was only so much I could do, but I always felt guilty because what was I suppose to do? Not only that but the neighbours were getting annoyed with me because I did not answer the door the beggar would knock on the their door, and they also didn't like the fact of having beggars sitting and lazying around their little estate. It doesn't help much when a beggar knocked on the door and all I could smell was methylated spirits, which they soaked through bread and drank the alcohol leftover.

Now with music?! Would I download (pirate) a CD that I probably wouldn't normally buy, usually for lack of money? Probably not because man has classified this as stealing property and I don't want to go to prison for something that's not contradicting Scripture (though I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it). However, when it comes to this I think the owner of the property (song) assumes that if it wasn't for the Internet then the person would buy the CD from a store. Which is not usually the case. If I wasn't going to buy the CD in the first place, am I stealing it by downloading it, after all it didn't cost them anything to produce the hardware, all they do is stick it on a server (online shop) and people download copies, whereas the conventional way it to make CD copies, which involves a much higher production cost. Question is, who's the greedy one, the one trying to save money because of easy access to music, movies, etc. for free albeit illegal, or the owner of the property determined to make as much buck as possible? I think they got it right with Live8, provide an exceptional cast of performers with the aid going to poverty. Even though we know it profits nothing for them due to lack of relationship with Yahuweh.

I'm not an expert on the music industry so am unqualified to comment, but I got a sense of unease in my spirit when I did it, maybe due to lack of understanding the Truth or maybe because of divine guidance :)

I think we need someone with more wisdom on this subject to respond.

I think the question Icy, did actually ask, and myself ask is this: "Is the record company really losing anything if I would have never bought the song in the first place?"

Note: I like Keb Mo's music, and I buy the original CDs, plus I try see his live performances if I can. I wouldn't want to rip him off by downloading his music illegally, but he is a person I would go out of my way to support, you know to save up money to buy a CD. Now with others I wouldn't really support or buy the CDs, now what?

I've been pondering this the whole afternoon since I wrote my first post. The giver and the receiver are both involved and are aware of each others situation, in the case of music downloading the owner would have made some sort of statement saying that he's giving the music away for free, like what Swalchy just mentioned in his post. Also like what Ken and Yada have done regarding their books and audio files.

I came up with the conclusion that if I can't afford to live the life of luxury then I shouldn't be taking a short cut to try live that way. By short cut I mean having a large selection of music that I couldn't afford in the first place.

As a "poor" man, I prefer knowing that I have permission first before taking to fill my stomach, because maybe the giver hasn't given permission and I could get myself into some serious trouble.

Those songs that I have downloaded before I've always had the intention of buying, but you know how it goes, one seems to get more poorer as time passes, and in the end the songs are never purchased. I'm one of the ones that battle with this (let's hope the battle is over for me), I end up deleting the files quickly after downloading due to guilt, sometimes not even listening to them. I find searching for music (to download illegally) such a time waster, because in the end it profits me nothing and has actually put an obstacle in my relationship with Father.

I have even downloaded songs that I already have on an original CD but just can't be bothered to transfer from CD via PC to the iPod. I'm not particularly worried about quality, simply because I don't own a stereo and am not a DJ.

My wife has recently asked me to get two particular CDs for her, she just said I should download it, but my first thought was that I was going to buy originals instead, even if it requires a hefty withdrawal from the cash in my wallet. I believe this is the working of the Set-Apart Spirit in my life. She's determined to see my relationship with my Father flourish, even be it a small matter such as this.

Thanks for the discussion, folks. I like kp's explanation of it being a system. If one does not participate in the system, it's not up to us (or the poor) to force them. I still wonder if Yahuweh would consider it stealing if a man was just trying to feed his family. I guess that is between Yahuweh and the man though.

Swalchy is correct about albums that are available for free actually selling better than other albums. Publishers are starting to do this with books as well, because it opens up the material to an audiance that might never have considered it who will then either buy it, or donate money to support the author. It's amazing how slackening up on capitalism actually produces more profit.

I have the same grudge against professional christians. None of that stuff should cost a thing, especially scripture. Or if it does, it shouldn't cost more than it does to print and distribute the material. Christian bookstores tend to disgust me at how expensive everything is. It is always about serving the god of money/capitalism rather than serving Yahuweh.

The concept of "intellectual property" still amazes and confuses me though. That's really like charging someone to listen to me talk. "You want to know what I think? Well, that's going to cost you $12.99 plus tax. By the way, I also charge $0.99 for each song I sing." It just doesn't make sense. Imagine if people had to pay to listen to a pastor and sing hymns. . . Oh wait, they kinda do. (Sorry, I just remembered the pastor that I used to listen to always asking for money. My wife wants to go back there, so it's kinda on my mind).

Does charging extortionate rates of tax and spending billions on campaigns to get children to nag their parents for the latest CD's/fashions/DVD's etc count as stealing too?

If so, do two wrongs make it right ;-)