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Offline Devildog  
#1 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2008 9:13:12 AM(UTC)
Devildog
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Location: Florida

Since there are various conflicting opinions about this topic, I was wondering if someone here had the evidence I am looking for. If someone were to say that God's name is YahVeh, how are we absolutely sure this is wrong? If the "w" sound was later changed to a "v" sound, how can we be sure? Does that mean that Mitsvot is actually mitswot? Thanks to anyone who can bring clarity to this for me.
Offline Devildog  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:05:42 AM(UTC)
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OK, I just read Swalchys' web site page dedicated to this, after seeing this may be in the wrong area LOL (sorry). I found your short essay to be very helpful and I thank you for it, brother. Here's what I gathered briefly, so correct me if I am wrong. Whether an English "W" or a "V" it doesn't matter as the letter is pronounced "oo". Thus pronounced.....Yah(Yod-Hey) ew aay((waw or vav and Hey). Since it is a vowel here sounding like eww(as in yuck-sorry don't know how to spell sounds) it is a much smoother transition into the aay sound. Putting a hard "v" sound here is anything but smooth. Yah ew aay-Yahuweh is better than Yah ew aay equally YahuVeh. Am I closer to understanding this? I suppose you can only answer that if you can discern what I am even saying here. I hope I am understood by someone. I suppose, it comes down to spelling sounds, I mean how does one spell oo/u/Ew(as in yuck,right?). I see a "w", there not a "v".

And since it is all about the vocalization that matters, whether written a "V" or "W", is it safe to say that it(waw/vav) should NOT be vocalized to sound like a modern "V" ? Thanks again brothers and sisters
Offline Devildog  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:12:16 AM(UTC)
Devildog
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Posts: 129
Location: Florida

Ah, but what about "Mitzvot"? Is the answer: sometimes it isn't a vowel like in God's name. If so, do people have merit in saying how do you know it is a vowel and isn't YahVeh? Is the only response that can be rendered a letter from Josephus saying that a crown had God's name on it and it consisted of vowels? Thanks....man, sometimes I feel like I am regresssing.

Just finished reading the other thread regarding this topic. It seems I am not the only one that is struggling with this. In fact, it remains largely unanswered, so hopefully Ken or Yada can shine some light on this and perhaps even squeeze it into their monumental literary achievements. Hopefully the Spirit enlightens one of us here regarding this.
Offline J&M  
#4 Posted : Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:06:53 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh

Please post where appropriate.
Shalom Y'all (Cliche or what!!)

THIS IS MEANT AS ENCOURAGEMENT
Sorry if it repeats other peoples points.



In England we have (had) 'received' pronunciation (RP) ,a standard form of speech used particularly in broadcasting on radio/TV .
In the past few years regional accents using RP have been replaced by 'vulgar' (common) speech and accent.
All this in two to three decades.
The Queen of England does not use RP ,she speaks the ''vulgar' of her clique.eg awf =off, mae=my.

CONTROVERSY, is controversial in its pronunciation ,is it CONtraversy, conTROversy, or contraVERSY ? or an alternative?

I suspect, but of course cannot prove that the pointing used to denote pronunciation may have suffered similarly.

Would a Jew from the times of David , have pronounced the same as a Jew from the time of Yahushua?

Let alone a thousand years after that?

Modern day British Jews pronounce Shabbat ,Shabbus,Shabbut,Shabbas,Shabbot,Shabbos depending upon their speech patterns, accents etc.. AND who they're speaking to !!

No doubt jojocc can give numerous examples of differences in modern hebrew variations in pronunciation (of pointed and unpointed) . !!!!!

It's no wonder vowelling is so contentious.

None of what I said is news or new , every modern language changes its spelling and grammar etc. Chaucers' English is almost unintelligible to modern English speakers.

The GOOD NEWS is that Scriptual Written Hebrew without vowels, found since the (Dead Sea Scrolls)(Ded C Skroals) DSS on doesn't change.
If and when we find the links between Paleo and Aramaic script ,again I suspect very few, if any major discrepancies.
Our real and only problem(s) is ,what does Yahuweh intend this to mean? Thank You Ruach Qodesh (Qodosh) RQ !!!!

I must also put in a big thanks to all throughout the centuries who had and are searching out and writing these meanings down for us to know now. (The RQ within is working overtime!!!) My bookshelves groan under their weight!! KP, Yada thank you too.

Some of the shades of meaning and some meanings have been lost to us , but the RQ will always give us the answer(s).
We know 'not one yot or tit'l will be changed'. Just US to understand their meaning HIS way.

Halal (hey,lamed , lamed) = to shine forth (radiate) (U) Yah
Commonly written hallelujah!!

Jane

(Sorry just discovered aol emoticons!!)

the most excellent emoticons have gone ...... how do I get them to show when I paste into the forum?
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:46:00 AM(UTC)
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Swalchy wrote:
It more depends on what it precedes or what the letter is that precedes it rather than what the letter sounds like on it's own. That's why i can be either "V," "W," or "oo" sound in modern Hebrew.

So, in the case of the Waw following the Hey and Yod (as in Yahuweh), it gives an "oo" sound (more as in "loo" than "yuck" - again, depends on how you pronounce the English word. I would quite possibly said it sounded like "look", but depending on your accent, you can make "look" sound as "loook" or as "luck").

So, for those that say it should be a "v" sound instead of a "oo" sound, then it's a case of showing evidence that a Waw following a Hey and Yod is pronounced as a "v" and not as a "oo".


Lately, Yada has been joking around with this saying that if Yahuweh was pronounced Yahuveh then that would make Torah pronounced as Tvrah. Does modern Hebrew have a grammar rule saying why the Waw gets a Vah sound when applied to God's Name and not when applied to the word Torah?
User is suspended until 8/20/2021 8:53:19 PM(UTC) Greatest I am  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 4:12:02 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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God is not to be named.
God is to be what scripture first names him. The word.

To me this means that we are to look at his philosophy of life only.

We all follow a God of some kind in this way.

A political God or a religious God.

Both of these offer a philosophy of living.

If a secularist then you follow a political God.
If a religionist then you follow a religious God.

Most of us follow both to some extent.

Regards
DL
Offline James  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 5:17:29 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
God is not to be named.
God is to be what scripture first names him. The word.

To me this means that we are to look at his philosophy of life only.

We all follow a God of some kind in this way.

A political God or a religious God.

Both of these offer a philosophy of living.

If a secularist then you follow a political God.
If a religionist then you follow a religious God.

Most of us follow both to some extent.

Regards
DL

Yahuweh is a God that despises both Religion and Politics, so I choose to follow suite and reject both a Religious God and a Political God.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
User is suspended until 8/20/2021 8:53:19 PM(UTC) Greatest I am  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 9:28:23 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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Location: Canada

James wrote:
Yahuweh is a God that despises both Religion and Politics, so I choose to follow suite and reject both a Religious God and a Political God.


Then whose laws do you follow?

Even if all of your own, they will likely match some of the religious or political laws.

Those are all we have.

Regards
DL
Offline In His Name  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 12:32:26 PM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
God is not to be named.
God is to be what scripture first names him. The word.

"And Moseh said to God (ha ‘elohym - the Mighty One), ‘Now look, if (hineh) I go (bow’ - come) to the Children (ben - sons) of Yisra’el yisra’el -those who strive and struggle with, persist and endure with, who persevere with and are empowered by God), and say (‘amar) to them, "The God (‘elohym - Mighty Ones) of your fathers (‘ab) sent me out (salah) to (‘el) you (‘atem), and they ask (‘amar - question) me, ‘What (mah) is His (hu) personal and proper name (shem),’ what (mah) shall I say (‘amar) to (‘el) them?"’" (Exodus 3:13)
"He said (‘amar), ‘Tell (‘amar) the Children of Yisra’el, "I Am (‘ehayah - first person singular of the verb hayah, meaning I exist) has sent (salah) me to you."’" (Exodus 3:14)
"God (‘elohym), moreover (‘owd - besides this and in addition), said (‘amar - declared) to (‘el) Moseh, ‘You shall say (‘amar) this (koh) to (‘el) the Children of Yisra’el (yisra’el - those who strive and struggle with, those who persist and endure with, those who persevere with and are empowered by God), "Yahuweh (י ה ו ה), God (‘elohym) of your fathers (‘ab), God of ‘Abraham, God of Yishaq, and God of Ya’aqob, sent (salah) me (‘any) to (‘el) you (‘atem)." This (zeh) is My (‘any) personal and proper name (shem) forever (la ‘olam - for all time and into eternity). This (zeh) is My (‘any) memorial, My renown name (zeker - commemoration, inheritance right, symbol, sign, signature, maxim, (and most importantly), the way I want to be recalled, remembered and known) in all dwelling places, homes (dowr) times, and generations (dowr).’" (Exodus 3:15)

Who am I to argue with God, it sounds to me like he wants to have a name.

Why do you say He is not to be named?

Quote:
To me this means that we are to look at his philosophy of life only.

We all follow a God of some kind in this way.

A political God or a religious God.

Both of these offer a philosophy of living.

If a secularist then you follow a political God.
If a religionist then you follow a religious God.

Most of us follow both to some extent.

Regards
DL


Ditto to James, politics and religion are opposite sides of a one-sided coin. Both are evil, both are man made, both are corruptions of Yahuweh's truth.

Welcome to the forum Greatest!
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline James  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:39:59 PM(UTC)
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wrote:
Then whose laws do you follow?

Even if all of your own, they will likely match some of the religious or political laws.

Those are all we have.

I try to follow Yahuweh's Torah, but I understand that I am not perfect, and that understanding His Word, and trusting Him are vastly more important to Him.

Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
User is suspended until 8/20/2021 8:53:19 PM(UTC) Greatest I am  
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:04:11 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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Posts: 54
Location: Canada

James wrote:
I try to follow Yahuweh's Torah, but I understand that I am not perfect, and that understanding His Word, and trusting Him are vastly more important to Him.



First you say you reject religious laws and then you say you follow religious laws.

Ok.

You are not confused.

Did you write elsewhere that I do not debate in a logical way?
Hmm.

Regards
DL
User is suspended until 8/20/2021 8:53:19 PM(UTC) Greatest I am  
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:08:12 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
Joined: 2/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Canada

In His Name wrote:
"And Moseh said to God (ha ‘elohym - the Mighty One), ‘Now look, if (hineh) I go (bow’ - come) to the Children (ben - sons) of Yisra’el yisra’el -those who strive and struggle with, persist and endure with, who persevere with and are empowered by God), and say (‘amar) to them, "The God (‘elohym - Mighty Ones) of your fathers (‘ab) sent me out (salah) to (‘el) you (‘atem), and they ask (‘amar - question) me, ‘What (mah) is His (hu) personal and proper name (shem),’ what (mah) shall I say (‘amar) to (‘el) them?"’" (Exodus 3:13)
"He said (‘amar), ‘Tell (‘amar) the Children of Yisra’el, "I Am (‘ehayah - first person singular of the verb hayah, meaning I exist) has sent (salah) me to you."’" (Exodus 3:14)
"God (‘elohym), moreover (‘owd - besides this and in addition), said (‘amar - declared) to (‘el) Moseh, ‘You shall say (‘amar) this (koh) to (‘el) the Children of Yisra’el (yisra’el - those who strive and struggle with, those who persist and endure with, those who persevere with and are empowered by God), "Yahuweh (י ה ו ה), God (‘elohym) of your fathers (‘ab), God of ‘Abraham, God of Yishaq, and God of Ya’aqob, sent (salah) me (‘any) to (‘el) you (‘atem)." This (zeh) is My (‘any) personal and proper name (shem) forever (la ‘olam - for all time and into eternity). This (zeh) is My (‘any) memorial, My renown name (zeker - commemoration, inheritance right, symbol, sign, signature, maxim, (and most importantly), the way I want to be recalled, remembered and known) in all dwelling places, homes (dowr) times, and generations (dowr).’" (Exodus 3:15)

Who am I to argue with God, it sounds to me like he wants to have a name.

Why do you say He is not to be named?



Ditto to James, politics and religion are opposite sides of a one-sided coin. Both are evil, both are man made, both are corruptions of Yahuweh's truth.

Welcome to the forum Greatest!


Thanks.

You say that religion is evil then say that you follow one. Ok.

Strange but Ok.

You quote Moses.

Do you believe in staffs that turn into snakes and in a God that would harden Pharaoh's heart so that God could kill off all the first born of Egypt?

Regards
DL
Offline James  
#13 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:22:04 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
First you say you reject religious laws and then you say you follow religious laws.

Ok.

You are not confused.

Did you write elsewhere that I do not debate in a logical way?
Hmm.

Regards
DL

Yahuweh is anti religious as is His Torah. Yahuweh wants a relationship with us, if you had bothered to read anything around here you would have known that most everyone here is anti religious.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
User is suspended until 8/20/2021 8:53:19 PM(UTC) Greatest I am  
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:59:19 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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James wrote:
Yahuweh is anti religious as is His Torah. Yahuweh wants a relationship with us, if you had bothered to read anything around here you would have known that most everyone here is anti religious.


If following Yahweh is not a religion then what is it and why is it based on scripture?

Regards
DL
Offline James  
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:57:19 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
If following Yahweh is not a religion then what is it and why is it based on scripture?

Regards
DL

Following Yahuweh is a choice. Yahuweh is my father. The Torah is His instructions. I follow them because I know that they are good for me, not because I fear he will punish me for not, in fact if I choose not to follow them he is not going to punish me, any suffering that comes from not following them is a natural consequence. If your father tells you not to touch the fire on the stove and you disobey and touch it, you get burned, not because your father wanted you to, but because it is a natural consequence. I also follow them because I want to please my father, just as a small child wants to please his father. There is nothing religious about this.

Scripture is the primary way Yahuweh has chosen to communicate with us, so that is where I look for His instructions.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Matthew  
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:52:20 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
Do you believe in staffs that turn into snakes and in a God that would harden Pharaoh's heart so that God could kill off all the first born of Egypt?


Just to let you know GIA, a release of carbon dioxide (a gas heavier than oxygen) from the earth can cause the deaths of many people, like which happened in Lake Nyos in 1986, which suffocated some 1700 people as well as 3500 livestock. Hence why it's easy to accept the 10 Plagues of Egypt as historically and scientifically sound.

As far as we know the 10 Plagues of Egypt was caused by the Santorini volcanic eruption, it was a natural event which Yahweh accredited to Himself.

According to Scripture Pharaoh's magicians knew how to use common magic tricks to turn a staff into a snake, much like a magician today "saws" a person in half. Again, this event is being told as being supernatural, that God transformed the staff into a snake, which is not hard to believe if Yahweh created the universe.

Edit (sorry, I missed this point of Dl's):

Greatest I am wrote:
If following Yahweh is not a religion then what is it and why is it based on scripture?


DL, if your father told you it's better to share than to be greedy, would you see this as religion or as a life-lesson being told to you by someone who loves you and cares for you?

What if your father told you how the Islamic nations will try and form an alliance to try and wipe out Israel. Would you refuse to listen to his knowledge because you deem it to be religious talk and full of fantasy or would you consider what he has to say because you regard him to be wise and knowledgeable concerning wordly affairs?

It's not a religion, but having a relationship with the Creator of the Universe, one who we know we can trust because He has proven Himself to us. We don't follow blindly, walking in blind faith, but follow with certainty, trusting Him because we know Him to be true.

Edited by moderator Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:56:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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