 Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
This is something that has been bothering me for a while.
I have been a member of a christian group, Voice of the Martyrs, for a while now. Every month they give me a newsletter chock full of testimonies and stories that are full of christians being persecuted and standing steadfast in the faith. The stories are truly touching and I have a feeling that many of these people who have nothing but the clothes on their back, who have been stripped of dignity and position would be open to a more complete and error free message that is Yahuweh's word. Every month this organization sends the newsletter requesting money or items for care packages that are sent to the four corners of the earth. They send out books of scripture, and missionary literature, and they take care of the needs of the oppressed and the needy. They are dilligently trying to free prisoners and stay executions. It tears me apart to see what is done to believers in the world but what tears me apart more is that they aren't getting the full revelation and they are suffering for in many cases a God they don't know and a Greek interpretation of a man named Jesus. As I have said before it is all about relationship, it's not so much where you start...or even where you are...it's an attitude of the heart....where you are willing to go and what you are willing to give up or gain. Are you willing to walk away from Babylon or are you content to stay there? A person who is suffering for the name of Jesus very well could be on a higher and straighter road to Yahuweh than a person who knows Yahuweh and Yahushua and the miqrym and all of that. But still it breaks my heart to see these people starving, losing their homes, being killed, raped, persecuted, and ostrasized for how can I put this...a straw man. We can fellowship here and type our messages to each other and love each other as best as we can through this medium...which is wonderful...no doubt...but for the most part what we do here is preach to or sing in the choir. I say that loving you all. What can we do to deliver this message of the scriptures to the flock that in some way deserves it the most?...and I know people might object to that...but I think you can feel what I am saying. These people...many...truly wait for their daily bread and rely on Yahuweh as a child does a father. It is something very hard for us to even imagine...to live in complete reliance on Yahuweh. But what do we do? We go out into the world to Vietnam, China, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Iran, Colombia, Iraq, Nigeria, Zambia, or Somalia...wherever the ekklesia is being persecuted...and what do we tell them?....How do we explain to them?
"You only got a part of the message, and you inherited lies from the father's of the people who gave you this message. We're sorry you suffered for notions that weren't true, we're sorry you were punished for the keeping of festivals that are a stench to God...and by the way his name isn't Allah...it's Yahuweh. We're sorry for this...and if you accept this message of the scriptures...your suffering probably won't be relieved...but perhaps redoubled."
What can we do? What do we do? |
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
|
This won't do anything to help our persecuted brothers, and it shouldn't lessen the agony we feel for them, but it may help us to understand that they---these modern-day martyrs for a "Christ" they barely know, a "Christ" who is misunderstood and mischaracterized---are not privileged (as we are) to "attend" the ekklesia of Philadelphia, we who have kept Yahshua's command to persevere. No, these brothers and sisters are of the ekklesia of Smyrna, of whom our Savior said, "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Rev 2:8-10) The "synagogue of Satan" here, in the broader sense, includes those who have foisted an errant caricature of Christ upon these folks. But it's all they know, and sensing the undercurrent of truth in the most twisted gospel message, they have clung to this truth with pure and undefiled hearts. Yahshua doesn't hold them accountable for knowing what they couldn't possibly know under their dire circumstances. He merely encourages them to "be faithful unto death; do not fear." Yahshua did not offer one word of rebuke, though the martyrs of Smyrna labored under a huge burden of misinformation---intellectual persecution. When we are not able to tangibly help them, let us pray that they are able to remain faithful---that God will grant them strength and hope.
kp
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC) Posts: 114  Location: Hilo, Hawaii
|
I don't know about you Shalom, but I'm having trouble talking to my own family living in my own house about keeping the Torah, let alone someone in Iraq. I think we are where we are for a reason. I feel in a way that I was called to "preach to the choir." A huge majority of the people i've ever known have been Christians, yet their lives have been empty. I have seen that they don't cling to YHWH. They don't know Him and don't love Him. Now i'm terrible at clinging to YHWH, choosing instead to rely on my own strength. I feel like I barely know YHWH. I love Him so imperfectly. But at least I can point Christians in the right direction. I used to cry out at night for YHWH to let me know Him because I was trying so hard with bible studies and the church thing and I still didn't feel like i knew Him. I don't feel that any more. I still want to know Him, but at least I know now that I am moving facing the right direction and moving towards Him- however slowly. I want to offer that to Christians who may or may not feel the same way. I really feel like now, when I am still tethered to my family and school, that this is where I am meant to be now. Someday I hope to preach in the Third World to the oppressed, but i feel that I am meant to preach to Christians for now.
I don't mean to say that we shouldn't preach to the Third World and to the oppressed (and misguided) Church. I just mean to say that where you are now, at this moment, is where you were meant to be now, at this moment. At least i think so. If you are this concerned with the persecuted Church, it may mean that you will preach to them someday. Soon even. Just don't forget about the people around you just because they have a nice home and running water. If they are believing lies from Satan, they are just as oppressed as the persecuted Church.
I don't know if it worked, but that was meant to be encouraging to you. Both for in the future when you potentially figure out how to help the persecuted Church and for the present when you are surrounded by deceived Christians, Atheists, Buddhists, etc. who all need the Truth just as bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120
|
I wept bitterly and miserably when my mother passed away recently because I felt that I had not done enough for her in respect to Yahweh and His Truth. But I also knew then that we cannot bring all the horses to the water, let alone force them to drink it.
That is why I took solace in understanding my place in this world. Imperfect as I am, I understand that I was predestined to be called NOW because He knew that I would be in the right position to hear, obey and spread the message. Time was when I thought giving a tithe to a particular church to spread the gospel of salvation was a thing that should be done so as not to shortchange God for the blessings that I received (Micah). Today, I know better. Church institutions tend to buy property and people and promoting error instead of learning and teaching Truth.
I also learnt that all the good works that I could and can do for people suffering around the world is insignificant compared to the Work of spreading the Word of Yahweh. Thousand of churches and foundations across the world have been established to help the poor and impoverished, those hurt by wars and disease. Although I empathise with those afflicted I cannot do much for them myself. What I can do is engage in the Work because very few are involved in this most important mission. This is becoming my personal mission. Our business shall provide my wife and me with some money to live reasonably well, and the resources to engage and do the Work. Our experiences in business and work and life shall help us get this message across. Our first task is to find others like us, and to share in the Work. I was hesitant at first, but I think that I am finding that my long term family members are here in this community.
So rather than banging our heads against the wall, and feeling the pain for things that we cannot change, we now seek to start where it should matter most: bringing back Truth. I thank Yahweh for this opportunity, and for using Yada and KP as His instruments, and for the people that I meet here and for those that I shall meet in His Name. May we all grow in love for Yahweh and for each other so that the world will know who we are and then seek to be part of His Family! |
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom. |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
Well said both Gamma and Bit
I hope I didn't imply by my writing that in any way that I was ready to go out and missionize in the hot spots and the war zones, because at this point I am not and there has been no signs that I am called to do so. I think what you said is very true and we are where are are because that is where we are to be utilized. I was also not recommending that anybody else go out and do that. I think that Yahuweh will in his time show the people he desires to go out to the persecuted flock the way. It won't be forced or contrived...in those people there will be such a nudging and a pushing and an urging that they cannot ignore it and probably won't find peace until they just go out and do His will....kinda like Jonah. You are both right in saying that we should spread the good news of the scriptures (complete scriptures) to the people where we and they are. I couldn't have said what you said better. I understand how you feel Gamma, it's an uphill battle to even talk to our own families, and in my own life the bonds of old and long friendships have been breaking under the strain of incompatible lifestyles and outlooks. I hope that soon I will be able to get a fellowship group going in my little community that could meet a couple evenings a week to break bread and learn the good book. The seeds have been sown at least. What I was trying to get from this post was stir up the issue that has long bothered me....namely, the plight and fate of the Smyrna ekklesia in our times. I also wondered if anybody knew of any group of people who were out there already that could offer a fuller and more complete revelation to our brothers and sisters in Smyna.
Shalom |
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
To quote what kp said in TOM: Originally Posted by: The Owner'  (360) Do not eat the fruit of a tree for three years from the time it was planted. "When you come into the land, and have planted all kinds of trees for food, then you shall count their fruit as uncircumcised. Three years it shall be as uncircumcised to you. It shall not be eaten. But in the fourth year all its fruit shall be holy, a praise to Yahweh. And in the fifth year you may eat its fruit, that it may yield to you its increase: I am Yahweh your God." (Leviticus 19:23-25) Beyond the plain obedience of the command, this is a hard one to figure out. Why did Yahweh declare the fruit of a newly planted tree ceremonially forbidden for the first three years? As an enthusiastic arborist, I can tell you that it takes that long for a tree’s root structure to become established. The "tree maxim" is: the first year they sleep, the second year they creep, and the third year they leap. Perhaps Yahweh is teaching us about patience--not to expect a new believer to bear edifying fruit for a few years, no matter how promising he or she might appear. If ever there was a "convert" who might have wanted to jump immediately into the fray, it was Paul. But as he testifies in his preface to the Galatians (1:18), he waited for a full three years before he even conferred with the leaders of the Ekklesia at Jerusalem. Three years. Paul was an acknowledged expert in the Torah. Perhaps he realized that he was a newly planted tree and none of his fruit would be usable for the first three years. So he sidelined himself until, as he himself put it (v. 15), "it pleased God...."
I always feel as if I gotta be out there preaching in the third world, such as deepest darkest Africa (in which I was born and spent 21 years of my life), though I don't believe (at least not yet) that I'm called to be preaching to the poorest of countries. I think we are pressured into this frame of mind of having to be out there preaching otherwise we feel as if we're not doing the "work of God", or is that just me? But I get over myself and am comforted by Yahweh, in that He says He's called me now and He knows where I'm at in my walk with Him. It will take time for me to grow, it will also take time for seeds to grow in my life and that I've already sown in other people's lives. And when I look at myself and the people around me I realise they suffer poverty (spiritually) just as much as someone in Somalia (the poorest African country), it might even be harder at home for success as our friends and families have their temporal needs, in terms of jobs and food on the table, already satisfied and so might be more difficult to harvest. In our own places (homes) we suffer persecution from our own friends and families, it might not result in us being martyred but it does result in a seperation from those we dearly love. It might be harder to trust Yahweh to provide while missioning in Africa, but it's also very hard to get rejected by one's own flesh and blood. I find it easier to be rejected by someone I don't know than by a family member.
As kp says, we must just keep praying for our Christian brothers to remain faithful. I was saved by the message of Jesus, it was the picture of Him dying for me, coupled with the confession of my mouth that I required His forgiveness. I also said the sinner's prayer again with the correct Names when I found out, just to make sure, but His Spirit was already with me, and so guided me into the Truth I desired. Or do you guys think I was only saved when I confessed the Name Yahshua (Yahushua)?
So, for the moment, I know I'm in my first year (or second) as a believer in Yahweh, in His Salvation, Yahshua. I might have been a "Christian" for quite some time, but only recently did I come to the knowledge of the Truth and so am comforted just to grow in Him, until such a time I am called to branch out. I do already share with friends and family, but not as much as I would like as I'm first making sure my fruit is good, deepening my knowledge and becoming steadfast in my walk.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
Shalom your passion is very clear :) thats good to see!
I have a friend who is in Zimbabwe working with orphans... its a hard slog for her as well at the moment. |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
|
Matthew,
That is so so true. Those in Christianity are often persuaded to force a commission that isn't there to feel committed and in the right place. I know first hand because my sister is one of them. She is not still enough, she has zeal but she doesn't have peace or a certain resignation that in the end things are in His hands. She forces everything, and he life is often the product of what I would call Abraham's syndrome.
I think most of us are fairly new to the movement and what I love about the YY "assembly" is that the great majority of us are moving forward at whatever pace is right for us. What I love about kp (and I really wish that we could have more interaction with Yada, but I understand) is when he says things like that the only difference between us is perhaps a 30 year head start. Yahuweh will reach us where we're at and will all give us a piece of that great puzzle. But I think for all of us who are relatively new is to take a step back, pace ourselves, learn, bear fruit...and realize this race is not a sprint....perhaps it isn't even a race...haha.
I was actually thinking about using that quote from TOM, Matthew...I guess great minds thing alike....har har...
I hope as I said before that nobody thought that I had my own case of Abraham's Syndrome. I just was wondering more about the if and the how...not so much the when.
Shalom
|
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC) Posts: 544 Thanks: 4 times
|
I was considering this matter as well and have enjoyed reading everyone's posts. The Smyrna passage really puts the plight of our suffering brothers and sisters in perspective given what they and many of us began with. I know that we've been truly priveldged to have the oppurtunities we've been blessed with to seek truth and in learning sharing it with those around us. Having this format to share, learn and encourage has been wonderful, but trust that Yah has a purpose and plan for how we and others will see the truth of His word reach the world.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,191 Location: São Paulo, Brazil Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
|
That TOM passage was fresh in my mind after reading it a few days ago, but it has kinda stuck in my head. I get the message that now is a time to grow and learn and strengthen our relationship with our Father. We must also share with others but at the same time remember that the when, the where and the how will be determined by the Spirit's leading, if we just let the Spirit conform us to the will of the Father.
A quick joke regarding the "har har" from Shalom82's post: "Why are pirates pirates? Because they ARRR!"
Before I posted my previous post I was writing a part on Yada and KP, saying how their testimonies are inspiring, but deleted it as I was interrupted by someone. What I was saying was that they have done an incredible work through their books alone, it has helped all of us to new depths. Every now and again they drop hints of their personal lives too, like KP's many adopted children and Yada's trip to the Middle East to learn firsthand all that he needed to know for his work. They didn't need to go to Africa to missionize the physically poor, but instead they reached out to the spiritually poor (us being some of them). KP's testimony of his adopted children is awesome, this is testimony of his faith, reaching out to the poor (both the physically and spiritually weak) as mentioned in Scripture. Thanks guys! Just from reading the posts on this forum I know their seeds have landed in fertile soil. Let's hope we remain faithful, let's also hope our brothers and sisters (those still in the Church) hold to their faith and that the Father brings them to a realisation of the Truth, especially the real Names and the Commandments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
