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Offline Theophilus  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 9:52:08 AM(UTC)
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I don't recall this topic or passage of Scripture discussed in YY and thought I'd ask my fellow YY readers here what you make of the Covenant Yahuweh made with Noah, his family, and all(?) flesh. I'm also somewhat confused about the incident between Noah and Kena'an?

From the ISR Scriptures:

Quote:
Gen 9:1 And Elohim blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Bear fruit and increase, and fill the earth. 2“And the fear of you and the dread of you is on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the heavens, on all that creeps on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea – into your hand they have been given. 3“Every moving creature that lives is food for you. I have given you all, as I gave the green plants. 4“But do not eat flesh with its life, its blood. 5“But only your blood for your lives I require, from the hand of every beast I require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I require the life of man. 6“Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood is shed, for in the image of Elohim has He made man. 7“As for you, bear fruit and increase, bring forth teemingly in the earth and increase in it.” 8And Elohim spoke to Noah and to his sons with him, saying, 9“And I, see, I establish My covenant with you and with your seed after you, 10 and with every living creature that is with you: of the birds, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you, of all that go out of the ark, every beast of the earth. 11“And I shall establish My covenant with you, and never again is all flesh cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again is there a flood to destroy the earth.” 12And Elohim said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for all generations to come: 13“I shall set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth. 14“And it shall be, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the rainbow shall be seen in the cloud, 15 and I shall remember My covenant which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh, and never again let the waters become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16“And the rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I shall see it, to remember the everlasting covenant between Elohim and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth.” 17And Elohim said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is on the earth.” 18 And the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem and Ham and Yepheth. And Ham was the father of Kena'an. 19These three were the sons of Noah, and all the earth was overspread from them. 20And Noah, a man of the soil, began and planted a vineyard. 21And he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. 22And Ham, the father of Kena'an, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. 23So Shem and Yepheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father, but their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. 24And Noah awoke from his wine, and he knew what his younger son had done to him, 25and he said, “Cursed is Kena'an, let him become a servant of servants to his brothers.” 26And he said, “Blessed be, the Elohim of Shem, and let Kena'an become his servant. 27“Let Elohim enlarge Yepheth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem. And let Kena'an become his servant.” 28And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years, and he died.


For starters, I gather Yahuweh promises those dwelling on the earth (or Ererts -land) the He will not lose the destruction upon to the degree or by the means of a deluge as had just came to pass.

That eating (dead?) meat was approved.

An encourage ment by Elohim to be fruitful and mulitply to fill repopulate the land.

That murdering another person is a capital offense in Elohim's sight.

Is there more here than this that I'm not seeing?

Also for whom and during what timespan where the terms of the covenant in effect? I gather the deluge promise is unending.

I'm still unclear what Kenan's sin was in noticing his Dad's condition and alerting his brothers?
Offline Icy  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:06:09 AM(UTC)
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Below is something from kp dealing with the part about eating meat:

Quote:
Eat meat. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.’” (Genesis 9:2-3) Ooh! A manly mitzvah. Yahweh never contradicts Himself, but occasionally He must give us new instructions based upon a changing world. This is the second “phase” of His dietary guidelines. The first was given in the Garden of Eden, where Yahweh “commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat.’” (Genesis 2:16-17) At that point, mankind could live quite nicely on a vegetarian diet. After the flood, however, the world had changed, so the precept at hand was issued, broadening the spectrum of man’s dietary choices. Apparently, the nutrition available in a meatless diet would no longer be sufficient to maintain optimum human health, so animals, including birds and fish—a rich source of protein—were added to the menu. About fifteen hundred years later, however, Yahweh again changed man’s recommended diet, this time restricting the types of land animals, birds, and sea creatures His people could safely eat. Between Noah and Moses, we had gradually lost the ability to process the inherent toxicity of certain meats—pork, for example. These instructions are discussed at length in The Owner’s Manual, Chapter 5: “Dietary Laws.”

Although a definitive answer might prove elusive, it may be instructive to ask ourselves what caused this three-stage shift in dietary instruction. God didn’t change: His goal remained to provide sound nutritional health guidelines for mankind. But something changed in man’s environment that made these changes necessary for our well-being. Our first clue is in the timing of our precept: it was given right after the great flood. The typical recorded lifespans of men dropped gradually over the next millennium by some ninety percent, eventually settling at about seventy or eighty years (cf. Psalm 90:10). Some environmental factor was inexorably shortening our normal lifetimes, and doing it, apparently, at the molecular level—in our DNA. In other words, our genetic predisposition for longevity was being compromised by mutations in the collective human genome. The most likely culprit? Gamma rays.

There is a persistent theory that in the antediluvian world, a water vapor canopy shielded the earth, moderating global temperatures and filtering out harmful rays—a canopy that collapsed during the flood. Whether it was this or some other atmospheric condition, something changed at the time of the flood to (1) allow accelerated degradation of our gene pool, (2) prompt Yahweh to categorically promise that never again would such a flood destroy the earth, (3) allow rainbows to form for the first time, and (4) cause Yahweh to forecast regular and significant seasonal weather cycles that would never cease as long as the earth remained (apparently something Noah was not used to). Whatever it was, it proves that even in times of judgment and wrath, Yahweh never forgets His people. His tender mercies extend even to issuing new instructions, when they’re needed, about what to eat.

Funny, though: He never said anything about chocolate.


I seem to remember reading something, either in the forum, or one of the books about Noah's son didn't just see his father naked, he did more than that. I think it has to do with "uncovering his nakedness" being a euffimism (sp?) for having sex. I'll look more and see if I can find something for you.
Offline Icy  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:12:42 AM(UTC)
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From TOM Mitzvah 82:

Quote:
One thing we should make clear at the outset: to “uncover one’s nakedness” is an unambiguous Hebrew euphemism for sexual relations—it does not merely mean to strip (or skip, for that matter). However, the use of the word “approach” (Hebrew qarab: to come near, approach, bring forth) signals that not only is the actual act forbidden, but also the intent—read: “Don’t attempt to seduce them.” This of course meshes perfectly with what Yahshua had to say in Matthew 5:28—to look at a woman with lust is tantamount to committing adultery with her. God looks at the heart.


The idea that Noah's nakedness was uncovered in this sense fits quite well with what we know of the land of Kena'an. They were repleat with sexual immorality.
Offline Icy  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:15:29 AM(UTC)
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From TOM Mitzvah 84:

Quote:
As an aside, there’s an incident recorded in Genesis 9:20-24 that may well be foundational for this mitzvah. Sometime after the flood, Noah planted a vineyard, made some wine, got drunk, and passed out butt-naked in his tent. His younger son Ham, the record says, “saw” his father in this state. The Hebrew word for “saw” is ra’ah, which implies more than a fleeting glance. It means “to behold, consider, enjoy, gaze…” Also, the same words for “uncover” and “nakedness” we find so often in Leviticus 18 are used here, and as B&C point out, when used together they imply sexual relations. Could it be that Ham did more to his father Noah than our English translations actually report? After all, verse 24 says, “So Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his younger son had done to him.” The result was a curse on the house of Ham through his youngest son, Canaan. The point of all this is that the father (because he represents Yahweh in the family structure) is to receive reverence and respect at all times from all his children.
Offline bitnet  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:45:49 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Two points here: diet and Noah's molestation.

I think that the dietary laws regarding what is good to eat and what isn't really food was actually imparted to Adam and Chavah. Together with the world conditions at that time, it enabled them to live very long lives. However, because of so many influences over the centuries, the ideas that some meats are harmful was lost, because unlike harmful plants that affected lives almost immediately meats take a longer time to affect the body. What was also acceptable as a sacrifice may have diminished badly but a few people actually still kept the commandments, especially Abraham who walked with Yahweh and kept his precepts. So the dietary laws must have preceded Abraham.

Regarding Noah's molestation by his son, we do not know the details but we do know that simply seeing nakedness could not the issue. Our precepts of nudity, even when applied to Noah and his sons, would not impact us to the extent that a simple stolen view could affect someone in a stupor seriously enough to warrant a curse across generations. Something physical definitely happened and we do not have the details, but we can only surmise that perhaps sexual abuse happened. It could have been a prank (like a college trick of tying a ribbon around the private parts) but even that is not acceptable for someone who should been respected for having saved critical lives, both human and non-human.

I think perhaps it is also a message to respectfully honour those who impart proper spiritual knowledge and not to abuse them in any way or there may be dire consequences. This is a definite truth as we have seen that those who walk their own way eventually lead their children and their generations into waywardness and error.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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