The Noahide Covenant and the Hasidic Gentile Movement

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The Noahide Covenant and the Hasidic Gentile Movement

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Theophilus		#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:03:53 AM(UTC)
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC) Posts: 544 Thanks: 4 times		I was unclear as to which folder best fit this topic so hope I guessed correctly. I realize most of our discussions about the Torah refers to Yahuweh's persciptions as given to Moshe or that initiated by Yahuweh to Abraham. I recently encountered an old online acquaintence who now describes herself as a Hasidic Gentile based on the covenant G-d gave to Noah. While I was vaguely aware of Rabinical Jews refering to "righteous Gentiles" I had thought these were Gentile converts to Rabinical Judaism. I was also aware of Yahuweh's covenant with Noah, but may need to review Genesis 9 under the scriptual lense of YY. (Maybe another thread in Scriptural Analysis as well?) I'll copy the relevant posts for the benefit of others like me who were unfamiliar with this concept and ask for your thoughts both on the Covenant given to Noah and the Hasidic Gentile Movement generally: Quote: The Covenant of Noah was made after the flood and binds Noah, G-d and all living creatures. One of my favorite parts of Genesis 9 (where the covenant is found) is that there is an illusion to a covenant that G-d made with all living creatures. This is fascinating to me, especially in the context of what happens to animals and do they have souls. If they are part of a covenant then it would stand to reason that they are a little more then just a lump of flesh. And yes, humans and all living things are different here. If G-d just wanted to name humans he would have named Noah and his descendants, not all other creatures of the earth. Back on track. The seven laws are: 1. Prohibition of idolatry. There is only one G-d, and no statues, images etc. shall be made to take the place of the One True G-d. 2. Prohibition of murder. 3. Prohibition of blasphemy. Do not use G-d's name in vain etc. 4. Prohibition of theft. 5. Prohibition of fornication. Not following lust. 6. Prohibition of cruelty to animals. 7. Setting up and following just societies. For me, as well as other Hasidic Gentiles (also refered to as "G-d Fearers") following the Covenant of Noah is to do what is just and right in the eyes of G-d. From the view point of Jews - Gentiles that follow the Covenant, the Noahide laws that were laid down for all humanity, are righteous among Gentiles and have a place set for them in the after-life. There is no special benefit for a Noahide to convert to Judaism, no perks so to speak. Jews believe that only some are called follow the Law of Moses, and some are called to follow the Noahide Laws. If one follows the Laws that G-d has chosen for them, that they are fulfilling the will of G-d. One is not greater nor more important then the other. On the question of the signifigence of Messiyah Yahushua to Hasidic Gentiles: Quote: This is a sticky subject because of the differences in even the basic defintion of Messiah between Christians and Jews. They both see the Messiah very differently. While Christians believe that the Messiah is divine and also has two distinct and seperate comings, Jews believe that the Messiah is human and lead by G-d. The Jews (which the Hasidic Gentiles are part of) have their own scriptures of the Messiah, some corresponding to the Christian ones but most not. Christians claim that Jesus fulfilled more then 300 prophecies, but Jews do not consider many of these bible passages prophecies at all, let alone ones about the Messiah. A lot of Isaiah, especially the passages about the virgin birth and suffering servant, are not believed to be about the Messiah at all. In fact the Jewish scriptures have small differences, that change the entire meaning of the passage. Instead of the suffering servant, the sacrifical lamb that was sent to die for the sins of all humanity so that we might know redemption, the Jewish idea is much different. We believe that the Messiah will be anointed by G-d but will be human. Instead of being divine in nature, or part of G-d, he will be guided by G-d to fulfill G-d's will. We believe that the Messiah will: - Usher in an era of peace - Unite the world - Judaism will be the one religion and it will be practiced as G-d orginally intended (there is some debate as to whether all people will have to fully convert or merely become G-d Fearer's. In the end, most feel that the choice will be so obvious that it isn't worth sweating over.) - G-d will dwell on earth - No more suffering and illness - No more death These are the major components of what the Messiah will do. We can go into specific bible verses if you would like, I just wanted to give a general over view first, so that the two could be seen side by side. I recognize from reading YY that Rabinical Jews render key Messianic passages differently from Chrisitian and apparently the oldest Tanahk texts like the Dead Sea Scrolls. I also trust that you'll recognize the use of G-d being the orginal author's rendering of Elohim, but that is another discussion.


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shalom82		#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:25:53 AM(UTC)
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC) Posts: 735 Location: Penna Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)		Can somebody please say Swiss Cheese. The Rabbinics and the Noachides always say that by adhering to the Noachide covenant that "righteous gentiles" will have a place in in the after life...I think that role might go something like this... "More coffee, Rabbi Schneerson?" Going on with the second class theme here is a noachide snippet from the chassidic site, askmoses.com Quote: Additionally, a non-Jew should only study those sections of the Torah which are of universal relevance--i.e. which affect their observance of the Seven Noahide Laws. This includes the study of topics that increase knowledge in areas of morality, theology, and charity. Oh...Yahuweh's promise to the serpent...skip it...oh...Abraham's sacrifice at Moriah...skip it...oh...the story of Joseph...skip it...oh...Jacob's blessing of Yahudah...skip it..... Much of the Noachide Precepts go directly against the Torah. It only takes one "righteous" witness to condemn a person to death. Witness "Noble Judge, Noble Judges, this Gentile was planting a Sacred Grove to that contemptible Goddess Asherah!" Defendent "No I wasn't! I was planting an apple orchard! And isn't this witness your brother in law?!" Judges "It is the finding of the court that the witness against you is "righteous"...off with his head...the app...err...sacred grove will go to the righteous witness to do with it what is good in G - D's eyes." Even if Yahushua is the not the Messiah and the Torah is to be carried out according to scriptures in a perpetual manner, the rabbinics and their Noachide monstrosity are way off the mark. If that is how they want to roll, then their only choice is to missionize to the nations and recieve the "called out" as full members of the covenant between Yahuweh and Yisra'el and see their children as native born. If you are a Yahudi who does not believe that Yahushua is the Messiah...which in no way am I advocating as all of you should know... and actually believe in Torah...your only viable and real choice is to be a Karaite or something like it. The Noachide laws are of talmudic derivation and were clarified and codified by Rambam. As for a man bringing peace to the earth? I give the rabbinics my wish for good luck because there will be no blessings from Yahuweh to that end. I wonder what the true worship is that the man Messiah is expected to uphold...could it be Rabbinic Judaism (+ perhaps temple worship)? The sages of old and not so old knew and expected a Messiah that was Yachdiy'el. Rashi was the first Rabbi with some heavy influence to espouse the Suffering Servant as Israel. Many of his contemporaries and rabbis that followed him have criticised and picked apart his premise since then. Rabbinic Judaism is a religion which I despise...as I despise all religions. The Rabbinic "masters" thrive and keep food on their table by presuming the scriptures are complex, confusing, and exclusive. May they recieve their "reward" for decieving not only their own but playing upon the insecurities of the Goyim and bestowing a second class status on them. Shalom to you all
		YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.


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