Challenging Scripture

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shalom82		#1 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2008 10:01:07 AM(UTC)
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC) Posts: 735 Location: Penna Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)		We had talked about the idea that we would get a thread going that explains and exposes "challenging scripture". I thought I would get the ball rolling and offer a verse. John 7:8-10 "You go to the Feast. I am not yet going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come." Having said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the Feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. The skeptics, critics, and anti missionaries would say that Yahushua lied to his brothers on this specific occasion, thus making him imperfect.
		YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.


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shalom82		#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 3, 2008 12:41:03 AM(UTC)
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC) Posts: 735 Location: Penna Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)		Quote: Mark 2:25-26, "And he [Jesus] said unto them, Have ye never read what David did when he had need and was an hungered, he and they that were with him? How when he went into the house of God, in the days of Abiathar, the high priest, and did eat the shewbread which is not lawful to eat, but for the priests, and gave thereof to him that were with him." This passage is also to be found in Matthew 12:3-4, and in Luke 6:3-4; but all these authors have fallen into the same error, and labour under the same misconception. For this happened in the time of Ahimelech, the priest, and not in the time of Abiathar, as may be seen in 1 Samuel 21:2 [21-1], "David came to Nob, to Ahimelech, the priest," etc. But Abiathar was one of the sons of Ahimelech; the son of Ahitub, who escaped and fled after David. Now, from the express question put to him, we see that David came alone to Ahimelech, and that no one was with him: "Why art thou alone, and no man with thee?" This is from Faith Strengthened it is considered the cardinal work of Christian refutation. It was by a Karaite by the name of by Isaac Ben Abraham of Troki. I went out and searched for the answer to this "challenge" and at first I was a little bit nervous, because of the response this question or problem gets from the church. They write long articles and theological dissertations full of "10 dollar words" and explain the ramifications of such a problem and go into damage control mode...but the answer presented itself quite simply from a much smaller site with an author who I am pretty sure has less education than those fancy theologins, PHDS, professors...and the like. I am reminded of William Tyndale's declaration to the professional clergyman. Quote: If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!” So here are my confirmation notes copied from the e-sword notes box; Quote: 1Sa 22:20 And one of the sons of Aḥimeleḵ son of Aḥituḇ, named Eḇyathar, escaped and fled after Dawiḏ. 2Sa 8:17 and Tsaḏoq son of Aḥituḇ and Aḥimeleḵ son of Eḇyathar were the priests, and Serayah was the scribe, Eḇyathar son of Aḥimelek Aḥimeleḵ son of Eḇyathar Quote: 1Sa 14:3 And Aḥiyah (Ahiyah is the person also called Ahimelek) son of Aḥituḇ, Iḵaḇoḏ’s brother, son of Pineḥas, son of Ěli, the priest of יהוה in Shiloh, was wearing a shoulder garment. And the people did not know that Yonathan had gone. 1Ch 18:16 and Tsaḏoq son of Aḥituḇ and Aḇimeleḵ son of Eḇyathar were the priests, and Shawsha was the scribe 1Ch 24:6 And the scribe, Shemayah son of Nethanĕ’l, one of the Lĕwites, wrote them down before the sovereign, and the rulers, and Tsaḏoq the priest, and Aḥimeleḵ son of Eḇyathar, and the heads of the fathers’ houses of the priests and Lĕwites, one father’s house taken for Elʽazar and one for Ithamar. Conclusion: Ahimelech is Ebyathar (and Ahiyah) Ebyathar is Ahimelech Yes indeed, Yahushua could have said: Mar 2:26 “How he went into the House of Elohim, while (Ahimelech) was high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not right to eat, except for the priests, and he gave it also to those who were with him?” But based on the scriptual text as I read it there is no error in His statement...or an error by Mark in rendering his statement. Am I missing something?
		YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.


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Devildog		#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 3, 2008 6:30:47 AM(UTC)
Joined: 7/24/2007(UTC) Posts: 129 Location: Florida		Quote: The skeptics, critics, and anti missionaries would say that Yahushua lied to his brothers on this specific occasion, thus making him imperfect. I read chapters 6 and 7 to get the entire context, and it was pretty clear to me that this occasion, like several others, was simply the way He kept His schedule. He said His time has not yet come, and it was apparent that the Yahudim were seeking to kill Him. He did what was necessary to fulfill prophesy. But I learned far more in this challenge so I thank you for presenting it. It led me to a three hour study, and although it has fascinating conclusions, I will spare you guys the time and just cover a couple insights I personally found illuminating. Speaking of things I found challenging pertaining to scripture, the ones I loved the most could not be reached. Yada, and KP have helped me through this in the past with their brilliant insights, but there was still a small void for some reason until you made me read this again: Joh 6:44 “No one(oudeis- not even one, nothing and nobody ) is able(dunamai) to come (erchomai- appear, bring, enter, come or go) to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws(helkuō- to lead, impel or induces) him" A man is attracted by that which he delights in. Scripture just said that if any man believes, it would be because he had been influenced by God(not by DevilDog). In fact, in Quranic fashion, I almost saw that in parenthesis, as I read it LOL After starring at the screen for 5 minutes reflecting on what I was just taught, I did some further research on this and then moved on to the original goal. After getting my answer, I ran into: Joh 7:16-17 " יהושע answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone desires to do His desire, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is from Elohim, or whether I speak from Myself." I believe God just said that the desires of God are for us to "peirazo - scrutinized, examined through enquiry, tried, and pierced through) those who maintain (phasko - say, affirm, assert, profess, declare, promise, or infer) they (heautou) are (eimi) messengers (apostolos - one who is sent forth with Godly orders, teachers, special ambassadors, delegates, or apostles) but are not(YY Ch. 2)" I haven't looked yet but I do not remember coming across this verse in YY or FH, but it sures sounds like a fine addition to me, pounding home the point of His family resisting the urge to tolerate false teaching of any kind. Thanks again, Shalom82, for pointing me to a few more answers God planned for me to see today. How does it feel to be used LOL?


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