I found this video entitled: "A Nation Down the Drain (Jesus Camp)" and was wondering if anyone else had heard about this camp? I am not sure but I believe that Ted Haggard was associated with it - is that correct? I wonder if it is still in existence and/or if there are other similar programs being hosted around the country.

Part 1 is here.
Part 2 is here.

Edited by user Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:16:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Every minister, priest, and cleric in this country ought to be locked in a room to contemplate Nadav and Avihu's 'strange fire'. It's a fine teaching on the wages of religious ecstacy. There are wayyyy toooo many ministers, pastors, and clerics in this world. Religious ecstacy is not enough, a sentimental feeling or a desire to do so can be dangerous. The religious sentiment that drives men mad...that ecstacy, fear, guilt, and shame, that mob mentality is what makes the world such a miserable place.

I don't know what to make of this video. I have a feeling that the producers of the documentary are against any message that pertains to the truth that is Yahuweh's word and they are merely showing an extreme in order to have the opportunity to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but still they have done a service by exposing a rotting underbelly. I don't even know what to say about this group of evangelists. Their ardor is so misplaced and dare I say talismanic. They have strangely mixed the political, religious Laodicean and religious fervor that would make the Pope, Allah, and Marx all proud. I fear these children will be lost to their minder's religion or be disillusioned and walk away from this strange worship and in doing so be hostile to the true message of Yahuweh's word.

I thought it was funny how that minister lady was saying that warlocks would have been killed in the time of the covenant scriptures. I wonder if she would have made it through, or would she have been a tad overcooked like Nadav and Avihu?

Yikes! Sounds like you got into some spiritual toxin! You might try checking out Dave Hunt's great book called Occult Invasion, he goes into great detail about how bizarre spiritual practices are worming their way into the mainstream church.

Talking about speaking in tongues... I did point out to a Christian pastor friend that the Scriptures described that those moved by Yahweh and imbued with the Ruach Kodesh began to speak aloud and each witness saw and heard them speak in their own language and understood what was said and that the witnesses were perplexed by that miracle. Today, people are perplexed by pastors spouting unintelligible sounds and think that it is a daily miracle inspired by God. My friend still is of the opinion that his "speaking in tongues" is the "language of angels" and a gift from God. What a difference a couple of millennia makes!

CK-

I was reading your wonderful response to FF, he says good job!!! I was blessed by your words also keep up the good work!!!

Tiffany

YY Forum,

I suppose Paul/ Sha’ul praying with his mind and praying with his spirit as well as singing with his mind and singing with his spirit is incredibly like Yahuweh the Might One Yahushua.

Of all the people of the renewed covenant this Paul/ Sha’ul was most prophetic and filled with more relevance logic than pragmatic thinking and yet we accept his words that he prays in the spirit (tongues of men and angels) more than any witness of Yahushua’s life, words and actions.

1 Corinthians explains this simple process best unlike the one and only example of Pentecost which was for a specific purpose, unlike what Paul/ Sha’ul is talking about. Like all gifts we are to excel in the greater gifts but not neglect the lesser. This salvation, which was first announced by Yahushua, was confirmed to us by those who heard him (Paul/ Sha’ul). Yahuweh also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

If someone will pray with their mind and will pray with their spirit and will sing with their mind and will sing with their spirit, do we not know that those who speak in a tongue do not speak to men but to Yahuweh? Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.

Emotions maybe great, spiritual experience wonderful and elevated endorphin levels spectacular but Scriptural truth practiced by Yah’s family is always best and pleasing to him.

Now I personally do not care who has one gift or another, but if one of Yah’s family needs practical help from one of Yah’s gifted family members. Should not we desire to have them use Yah’s gift for the common good? If someone is in need of healing would not they look for and find someone who has the gift of healing or would they look for someone who has the Message of Wisdom or the Message of Knowledge or the gift of Faith or Miraculous Powers or Prophecy or Distinguishing between spirits, interpretation of Tongues? Are not all these gifts the work of the one and the same Set-Apart Cleansing and Purifying Spirit? Does not he give these gifts to each one of Yah’s family just as he determines is best?

Let us all respect Yah’s gifts and His Spirit and His family who obviously have different gifts than we may have. For the body of Yahushua is not made up of one part but of many parts. Just because the foot is not the hand or the ear is not the eye, no one can say I do not need that part of the body. Did not Yah in fact arrange all the part in the body just the way HE wanted them to be? Can the eye say to the hand, I DO NOT NEED YOU! Or the Head say to the feet, I DON NOT NEED YOU! Did not Yah explain to us that some of the parts (gifts) that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor or the parts (gifts) that are unpresentable we treat with special modesty, while our presentable parts (gifts) need no special treatment. For Yahweh has combined the members of HIS body, giving great honor that there be no division in HIS body, because each part has equal concern for the other parts. Does he not say all parts suffer if just one little part suffers?

Now let us rejoice and be glad for what Yahweh has done. Making us the body of Yahushua the anointed Messiyah and let each part do its part. This is not rocket science, it is very simple.

I am assured in the Called out or Out called body of Yahuweh the Mighty One Yahushua that some of you are the mentioned recipients of Yah’s appointments who have and use all His gifts and maybe even some desire the greater gifts. I pray you use them in the most excellent way of LOVE regardless of which parts (gifts) you have been given by Yahuweh.

Now may we Yahhuwdym be found desiring to know Yah as he knows us all and fulfilling His Commandments daily by Loving Him and Loving our neighbor as our self.

And what's wrong with talking to Yahuweh and not men???

Can we not come out of religious and denominational thinking and change our minds.

Equipped for the task,

Caller

Hello Caller and Welcome,

Indeed, the "gift of tongues" is one thing claimed by some and supported by many. Personally I do not ascribe more "holiness" to those with such ability but simply ask them what they meant with those words that they uttered if I wanted an explanation. More oten than not I do not even bother to ask. If they need to translate it, then how do we trust their translations? Do we have a dictionary? Some of their utterances are even interpreted by a third-party. How did that third-party know what was being said? Many great follies have been done by people claiming to have divine inspiration and we know prophet Teddy was spoken to by an unseen spirit. So much potential abuse is possible with such a system.

We need to apply some of that logic that Yahweh gave us and see whether they are of the Set-Apart Spirit by the other things that they do and say. The simplest yardstick is to see if they have any respect for Yahweh's ten basic laws. If they do not know or seek His name and ignore His Sabbaths, then we should know the answer to that sixty-four dollar question: "Are this guy's words trustworthy?"

I can relate to you an example of an acquaintance who desired that we should not be so isolationist in our thinking. This happened years ago before I knew Yahweh but was still in search of Him and tried to keep the Sabbaths and dietary laws as we knew how.

My friend and his wife took me to a small shoplot converted to a Christian worship centre. We met several bible-believers who were earnest in their devotions, and we sang hymns of praise. Then suddenly everyone moved and rearranged the chairs against the walls and the pastors began to invite people forward to them for healing. I noticed some people getting blankets ready but did not know what it was about.

Some background music was played and the volume was raised. One by one the people went up to the pastors (there were a few of them) who prayed over them "in tongues" and one by one they fell backwards when touched on the forehead, into the hands of the others waiting with the blankets. Some people started to "speak in tongues" and singing unknown songs but nobody understood them. When they were prayed over they too fell. Those fallen were covered with the blankets. Eventually the floor began to be filled with fallen people. We stayed back at the wall witnessing all this.

Then someone called us to the front and said that the pastors want to pray over us. We were most apprehensive but took a few steps forward and the pastors approached us separately. A pastor prayed over me in English and then rambled on "in tongues" and then touched my forehead. Nothing happened. I did not fall back! He looked at me and then prayed some more, then pushed my forehead a little firmer. I still stayed up. He was surprised! He called to another pastor to pray over me telling me to "let go, let the spirit take over."

So now we have these two pastors praying over me together and three people behind waiting for me to fall. The two pastors eventually finished their "prayer in tongues" and literally pushed my head but I stood firm! They gave up and said that I have not allowed the spirit into my heart! My wife also had a similar experience a few feet away. She also did not fall! So what did that experience teach us? The Truth was not there! So we never went back.

We still meet others from other congregations who claim to have that gift and one of them is a good friend and business associate who is also a pastor. He was upset at me first because he thought I had "aggrieved the Holy Spirit", but I told him that he is entitled to his beliefs and I to mine and that I do not want enmity but only to have better understanding of Scriptural teachings. I told him that he can claim that gift, but that I cannot and therefore am unable to say the same things about that kind of gift. The good thing is that we remain friends, and he is now aware that we know Yahweh. Perhaps some day he will understand Yahweh's ways better but this episode goes to show that it is easy to misunderstand and be misunderstood without the right words in the same language, let alone in the language of angels.