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User is suspended until 4/7/2030 11:52:02 PM(UTC) YahWarrior  
#1 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2007 10:56:15 PM(UTC)
YahWarrior
Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 40
Man
Location: Florida

This is a great topic Swalchy!

I will pose a few questions for consideration. (I don't expect you to answer them), it is that I have pondered these things for a number of years.

If credit is created out of thin air (which it is - called fractional lending -which should be illegal considering it is a lie) and is in reality NOTHING, and if credit is Caesar's, then shouldn't we render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's? NOTHING!

The profits in the credit and financing industry are OBSCENE and EXTREME (in 1998 $800 Billion per year - it must be at or over $1 trillion now!), and this is why almost every corporation that has the minimum reserves to start a banking or similar enterprise (to meet the fractional lending requirements) is trying to get into it. We borrow nothing and pay back something. We borrow thin air money that cost the lender NOTHING and therefore has no real value or consideration, and pay back real money that has our real labor behind it - which is something of value. The operative word here is LABOR, and labor for the Money Masters is SLAVERY.

The credit card companies never want to see you out of their debt!

Credit, just like a drug habit, starts off somewhat innocently. You thought you could try it just once or twice, but soon found out you were hooked and you were in fact working for the 'pusher man'! Like breaking a serious drug habit that is draining you of all your money, your future, and your health, you have to take DRASTIC MEASURES!

So, what do you do about it to avoid a lifetime of going down the toilet drain of their design AS YOU BECOME POORER AND THEY BECOME RICHER?

YOU HAVE TO TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES!

What would happen if all the saints in the world had a revelation of this and decided to render NOTHING back to Caesar during say - a Jubilee Year - when all debts are to be cancelled? And then of course never borrow from them again!

What would happen is World Wide Economic Collapse!

We are on the brink of that collapse right now and the saints are sleeping when it comes to this Yada of Yah's economic requirements. So imagine what would happen if they woke up from their strong delusion and took action? Isn't 2009 a Jubilee Year?

Another question. If the Torah of Yah hates USURY and if it also advocates the cancelling of ALL DEBTS during a Jubilee year, and if all the saints that had the courage to do so, simply sent a letter to the unsecured lenders (Credit Card Companies) and stated that according to the Torah (Law) of Yah which trumps all of man's laws I no longer owe you this debt what do you think the lenders would do?

Answer. They would immediately pile on fees and penalties (which should also be illegal) to increase the amount owed, then sell the debt at pennies on the dollar to a debt collector to cover the original amount owed or at least a percentage of it? (The calls debtors get are not from banks but from debt collectors and lawyers acting as debt collectors)

Once they sell the debt to another isn't the debt no longer owed, especially if it was ILLEGAL in the EYES OF YAH?

If you then ignore, according to the principle of the Jubilee, the debt collectors, to whom you really owe nothing, would Yah be angry with you? Would you be out of the will of Yah? Most of the saints are fearful of the 'man' and because of a lack of knowledge perish financially.

In fact, one day all the saints will have to decide to get out of the credit system or remain in it? Why wait until the visible 'mark' is instituted? Perhaps the mark is already here, and operating in a hidden manner.

More here... http://www.worldwidewarr...ARD%20draft%20letter.htm

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Messiah hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Gal 5:1

Yah hasn't given us a spirit of fear! So try it!

Yah Bless!

YahWarrior
Harry
Offline coleridge  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:05:15 AM(UTC)
coleridge
Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: birmingham, al

Harry... i really do like the way you think. here's one quick point. although i agree that credit is a lie, the things that we buy with credit are real. if we don't pay that debt, then won't we be stealing?
let YHWH be true, and every man a liar
Offline gammafighter  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 11, 2007 9:04:01 AM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

I don't know about the whole "loans/credit are nothing" thing. I couldn't loan you a million dollars because I don't have it. Credit companies deal with real money, it just so happens that real money now can be invisible. The economy is really complicated, but I dont think that being complicated is inherently evil. I agree that credit card companies are disgusting though. It occurred to me a few years ago that the only way they make money is off of people that can't pay. The interest rates are also ridiculous. Why is it that common folk, who are probably using a credit card because they cannot afford to buy things on their own at the time, have to pay interest rates upwards of 25% while companies, that are going to multiply the borrowed money, can issue bonds with interest rates of 10% or lower?

It would be very interesting if the members eklessia each borrowed thousands of dollars for the purpose of giving it to the poor in the year 2020 or so and the harpazo rapture occurred in 2023. I wonder if loans are still binding in the event that the lendee disappears from the face of the earth :P
Offline shalom82  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:48:40 AM(UTC)
shalom82
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 735
Location: Penna

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
What is the old/not so old saying? Style is not a luxary...A society that can no longer distinguish needs from wants is a society ripe for the picking. And we have been plucked and strummed (to borrow some guitar lingo). I think that for the most part the things we own (that actually own us...let's see if I can fit a few more cliche's into this post before I am through) are part of a sum that is in large part a diversion from the banality of a nonspiritual animal existence. In a sense most people are just paying the tithe to their spiritual master, Mammon. I by no means am perfect....so unfortunately far from it...but I have noticed there is a marked drop in my desire in this world...but I am far from where I want to be...where I need to be...and where I should be. I don't want to turn this into a rant, but I will risk it to make a few more observations. What disturbs me is how this spiritual void becomes bigger and bigger...at least in the society I live in. Good health is a great great blessing. Now even that is not enough. Look at shows like extreme makover and the rising rate of plastic surgery procedures (especially in youth). Plastic surgery is not a luxary in some parts this nation anymore. Plastic surgery in and of itself is not evil, I will admit, and in some cases is a wonderful beautiful thing that gives people a chance at life that they thought they would never have....no, I am not talking about Angelina Jolie...I am talking about children in 3rd world countries with deformities such as cleft pallates. Most of these girls and guys getting procedures done have no need to do them, it's just chasing a life that I believe Yahuweh never intended for us. Buying "stuff" is one thing...making your body...the embodiement of that material speaks of something more pervasive and sinister. The true believers and fellowshippers of Yahuweh were, are, and will be faithful unto death. The true worshippers of Mammon and this world are more and more increasingly faithful unto death to their Lord too.

We used to die from starvation....now we die from botched plastic surgery procedures.

P.S. And to live a life full of Yahuweh's grace we need not fall into the aesthetic trap of the gnostics (or hipppies for that matter).
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
User is suspended until 4/7/2030 11:52:02 PM(UTC) YahWarrior  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:45:02 PM(UTC)
YahWarrior
Joined: 12/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 40
Man
Location: Florida

coleridge wrote:
Harry... i really do like the way you think. here's one quick point. although i agree that credit is a lie, the things that we buy with credit are real. if we don't pay that debt, then won't we be stealing?


Yes, this can be a conflict of our conscience if we do not understand the mind of Yah. But let us take a look at what the children of Israel did when leaving Egypt (another Babylon) to help us understand how Yah views these things.

Quote:
Exo 12:35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
Exo 12:36 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them [such things as they required]. And they spoiled the Egyptians.


Moshe spoke for Yah to the people of Yah. If this was the word of Yah to His Set Apart people, the people who were to be the beginning of His Set Apart nation, then what we are seeing here is the view point of Yah as compared to the veiw point of man.

Once again, at the end of the age we are going to see a Set Apart people of Yah Coming Out of Babylon/Egypt in mass numbers and spoiling the Egyptians.

Let us remember our Rabbi Yahshua's mind on these things.

Quote:
Mat 22:15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to trap Him in His words.
Mat 22:16 And they sent to Him their taught ones with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of Elohim in truth, and it does not concern You about anyone, for You are not partial to any man.
Mat 22:17 “Then say to us, what do You think? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
Mat 22:18 But knowing their wickedness, יהושע said, “Why do you try Me, you hypocrites?
Mat 22:19 “Show Me the coin of the tax.” And they brought Him a silver piece.
Mat 22:20 And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?”
Mat 22:21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Then give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to Elohim what is Elohim’s.”


Yahshua said we are not to love the world nor the things of the world.

Quote:
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.


So, to follow His mind as revealed both in the Old and the New we are to hate (love not) the world and her things (credit/free fake money - which is a form of Egyptian slavery), render unto Caesar that which is his (nothing - for Yah already owned the metal of the coin - Caesar only owned the inscription or image), and in our coming out of the Egyptian system spoil them, and to NEVER return to it again.

More food for thought.

Yah Bless!

YahWarrior
Harry

Edit:

Swalchy wrote:


I think YahWarrior's point is that in a Jubilee Year, all debt people owe is to be remitted, ie, forgiven.

But as I understand it, a Jubilee year is = to a Yowbel year, which is actually in 2033 CE, not 2009 CE.


Quote:
When Is the Jubilee Year?

According to William Whiston's footnotes to Josephus, 24 B.C. was a Sabbatical year, and 23 B.C. was a Jubilee year. This would mean that A.D. 27 was a Sabbatical year, and A.D. 28 was a Jubilee year. If this is true, then 1977 was a Sabbatical year and 1978 a Jubilee year. Sabbatical years would occur in 1985, 1992, 1999, 2006, 2013, 2020 and 2027, with the next Jubilee in 2028.
more here.. http://www.biblestudy.or...nd-the-sabbath-year.html

And here is another chart that says something different.

http://www.betemunah.org/yovel1.html and the home page of this chart http://www.betemunah.org/yovel.html

Edited by user Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:34:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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