This is the strongs word:



So, I wouldn't say that it could mean "veiling your headcovering". Though, since the whole passage seems to be figurative, I think that "hide" would fit better (though "cover" fits well with the picture that he is painting).

Paul tells you right off:



So, whenever the "head" is mentioned, look here to see what he is talking about. Also, notice that the word for man here can mean husband, and the word for woman can mean wife.





So, if the man hides the Messiah (keeps him out of mind?) while praying, it is dishonoring to Yahuweh, and if the woman does not hide the man (stop thinking about him?) while praying, she is dishonoring Yahuweh.

I'm sure I'm streching here, but I can't imagine that this passage is telling us that men can not to wear hats and women have to wear hats or veils.

I think Michael Rood made a very good point about this verse being about authority. That we as Yahudim often put our pastor's or our rabbi's interrpretations and teachings over that of the Messiah. No person should be over us other than the Messiah. And as was said by Yahuweh, men will in the temporal world be the head of the family because of Chawah's role in Eden. The role of the pastor or leader of a congregation is not to rule but to administrate and to facilitate understanding. I completely understand that there can be a gray area when it comes to this. But I think once again that given all the evidence and arguments Yahuweh desires and requires of others that they allow us ultimately to use our consciences. Along with the theme of Corinthian conflict we should discuss 1 Corinthians 14:34-35.

"34: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35: And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (I Cor. 14).

Are there any ideas that anyone would like to share in regards to these verses?

"34: Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35: And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (I Cor. 14).

Look at the next verse

'What came the word of God from Man?'

I suspect Paul was answering a 'talmudic' question here. The adversary has used this verse and others like it to silence 50% + of believers. In Yehoshua there is neither ...... male or female.

Our sisters - our female yehudim, are every bit as free before YHWH as us males - and whilst they may have a different role within the family, marriage and society, there are no second class yehudim.

And men are are allowed to prattle in the ekklesia?

What 'ekklesia services'? can you please clarify?

I think we are getting onto some fraught doctrine. We must be very careful here, becase even though Chavva was 'in the transgression' she also confessed (I was Beguiled) whereas Adam blatently blamed first Chavva then YHWH - but never himself.

now this is just beautiful!!! let's take a long look at what we are discussing here... there have been some great points made. first let's look at the author. paul wrote in a very conversational tone... he was very casual and friendly in his writings...he knew these people. this was not a way of just spouting off some rules. this was in response to a problem he had gotten wind of. the ekklesia did have "meetings" where someone or a group of people would speak a word from YHWH. there are several references to such. and you are very correct in saying that women are allowed to speak in the meetings. these corinthians came from a completely different system. you will read in chapter 6 and 7 that they were having a hard time letting some of those "old" practices go. that's why paul was writing this. chavvah was called out... set apart... she spoke for herself in front of the almighty, and YHWH didn't seem offended at all. miriam was the prophetess for israel... she spoke. paul knew that. he studied the law and the prophets. 2 john is written to a woman...and john calls her the elder of that house. again i could go on but you get the point. so without making stretched out guesses as to what was going on here... we can safely say that paul was not saying that the women were never allowed to say anything. for what ever the reason he said that to them...

I'd like to hear more on this as well.
Being a woman, it's pretty offensive.

ranting can be quite awesome at times...

i find.

Ahh, I forgot about the list of sources at the beginning of YY....thanks for reminding me.

I'll never stop anyone from ranting! I've quite an appetite for info~ Good thing, as Yada and KP sure do type a lot! ha ha

Robski...grrr :) just kiddin'
Everyone and their agendas...This Discerning thing is tough work. I've been told that you all here are heretics and of the 'dark spirit'.
Well, I'm still around and still reading, so until-if I see that for myself...I'll keep trying to learn and discern.

But, if I find out you're all evil, there's gonna be HELL to pay. heh..kidding. don't you love anonymous internet threats? ;)

I really don't think God cares if people wear hats, don't wear hats, have long hair, have shaved heads.

same fashion statements as prostitutes? I think we women are just not supposed to prostitute ourselves.

Speaking of hats...

I had the privilege of visiting the Western Wall archaeological site in the fall of 2008. Being a Stoopid American, I forgot to bring appropriate headgear for visiting the ground held to be sacred by modern Jews. At the entrance, we were handed a cardboard kippot by an older man working as a security guard. The “silly hat” continually fell off my head and was a huge annoyance throughout the entire course of the otherwise excellent and informative visit to the site.

At the end of the tour, our guide told a story about a young Jew at Nazi extermination camp. The boy had told a soldier that he would someday be in Jerusalem. The Nazi soldier replied “The only way you will get to Jerusalem is through that chimney, as smoke!”

The boy survived WW2 had a family and career. When he retired, he emigrated to Israel and became a volunteer at the temple site with the lofty (and unpaid) position of “duster”. He worked many years just dusting and collecting trash and debris from the site. At some point the director of the site asked why this old man continued to work for no pay at the site of the temple, and the old man told his story about being in the extermination camp...

The guide then said, “The man who gave you these cardboard kippots, was that boy.”

There was not a dry eye in the group.

In an instant, that “silly hat” became one of my most prized possessions.

I encourage you to go and visit Jerusalem, take the archaeological tour of the temple site, but don't bring your own kippot. Get one from the “old security guard” at the entrance.