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Offline gammafighter  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:48:25 AM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

I was talking to my friend today about Islam (actually I was technically writing her an email). She thinks I shouldn't speak out about it, reach out to Muslims, or lead people to PoD. She calls it "attacking their beliefs" (whether that is true or not is irrelevant, it's that she says it as though attacking Islam were a bad thing! lol). I was trying to explain to her why I felt like that sort of thing is important. I suddenly remembered something about being lukewarm so i looked it up and quoted this to her:

"15 “I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! 16 But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth! ...19 I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference."
Revelation 3:15-16,19

I told her that before reading PoD I was lukewarm- I didn't understand the urgency- but now that I have this knowledge, I'm hot. I can't help but share it with the victims of Islam (aka Muslims).

The interesting thing is that I didn't really understand the significance of these verses. I thought it was just a nice passage about social justice. So I was reading Chapter 4 of FH this morning. I stopped to get to my schoolwork and everything. I didn't get back to finishing the chapter until just now. These verses are at the end of that chapter. KP explains that these verses are for the ekklesia of Laodicea, which some hold to symbolize the majority of the "church" today and/or in the near future. I really see that as what my friend is experiencing. She is more interested in being politically correct than taking a risk for Yahweh. The ironic thing is that I probably wouldn't have used those verses if I had understood them to mean what I understand them to mean now. It would have felt prideful (even if that wasn't my reason for quoting them) If I had finished the chapter, I might not have quoted the passage to her. Maybe this is a sign that my words will get through to her? I sure hope so.

Either way, I don't want to read too much into this. I just wanted to share it because it was like a big hug from our daddy, Yahweh.
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:04:30 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
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The only reason I have found to temper my attacking their beliefs is that it is an ineffective tactic. If you attack their beliefs people get defensive, and don't listen. At that point your just wasting breath, like talking to a wall. I find that if I begin by questioning them about their beliefs, ask leading questions, that bring you to the topics you want to bring up, i.e. lead them to a discussion of the histroical inaccuracies of Islamic script, and then point out the hypocracy of Mohamad, using their own script. I find with this I am not able to convince them, but I do get them questioning it, and if I can make them think for themselves, their might be hope for them.

This is just from personal experience. I work with a Muslim family, they are good people which means they are bad Muslims, but perhaps their is hope for them, I have already won their son over to some of the ideas in YY, and he is currently reading, but teenage ADD has kept him from getting to far. but the seeds are their, and I try to water them sometimes.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline gammafighter  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:21:15 PM(UTC)
gammafighter
Joined: 11/6/2007(UTC)
Posts: 114
Man
Location: Hilo, Hawaii

Ah. What i meant to convey was that attacking Islam (in a spiritual way) is a good thing. I was attacking Islam by confronting it's fallacies and providing others with the means to learn the truth about it.

What I was doing was telling people that I have found some solid disproofs of Islam, I told them about PoD and then gave an example of a reason Islam can't be true.

My friend didn't like that I was doing it or that the internet was my medium, but i had a few reasons for doing it.
1) I don't know if there are ANY Muslims on Hawaii, so I can't very well talk to people face to face about it
2) The internet allows people the choice. Do you examine the evidence or ignore it? After examining it, do you accept it or attempt to explain it away? I think face-to-face would be much more intimidating. When talking to a person, you have to say "I don't want to hear about this!" but online, all you have to do is not click the link.
3) The medium through which truth comes isn't really that big of a deal for a lot of people, except that some people might respond to different mediums differently. I can say that I have challenged my beliefs because of some things I found online. Several times, my faith failed, but Yahweh drew me back and showed me that it was my lack of understanding that caused my faith to fail, not His inadequacy. The point is that if someone told me that Scripture said that Abraham went to Mecca, even though the archaeological evidence said that Mecca didn't exist until over 2000 years after Abraham died, that would cause me to question the Scripture- it wouldn't matter if the person telling me this was on the internet or talking to me in person.

I really think my friend has chosen not to speak out against Islam because of political correctness. If she's anything like I was before I found PoD, she might say something neutral or almost-negative about Islam to a friend once or twice in her life. She probably doesn't investigate Islam. She probably doesn't want to accept that it can be evil. She definitely doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings about Islam or get labeled a bigot. That's how I used to be- passive. Thinking that maybe someday if i'm nice and don't cause a ruckus, a Muslim might ask me to help them convert to Christianity, but knowing that I'm more likely to win the lottery. But you can't make evil go away by being really-extra-super polite and pretending that everything is OK.

Lol, it took me a while to write that email to my friend because I kept writing stuff like that and going back to delete it so i could make it shorter and more kind.

I wasn't talking specifically about you though James. I just meant how I used to deal with Islam (by not doing anything) was bad. I'm sure you're not being lukewarm about it. There's a HUGE difference between doing nothing while hoping that someday a Muslim will come to me with questions about their beliefs and having discussions with Muslims on a regular basis.
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:15:54 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
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I did not think you were talking about me. I was just pointing out some of the things I have learned from experience in hopes that others might read it and learn.

I think I miss understood what you were saying, I thought you were talking about exposing Islam to Muslims, when exposing Islam to no Muslims I think we should be as blunt as possible because I know the threat that they pose.

Your friend sounds like a victim of the cult of multiculturalism; we can’t criticize anyone’s culture just because it is different than ours. Ask your friend if she thinks that American culture was okay when it accepted slavery. Multiculturalists are quick to judge American culture historically, but won’t criticize a current mass murdering culture until it affects them directly, if even then.

Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline bitnet  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2008 4:59:56 AM(UTC)
bitnet
Joined: 7/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,120

Hello bros... what's a guy gotta do when he lives in an Islamic country that forbids any communication about religion with a Muslim? When multiculturalism is supposedly practiced and valued but subject to the interpretations of the dominant ruling party? When freedom of religion is supposedly honoured, but subject to the vagaries of politics and religion? You know it but can't say it! If you are a Muslim and want to convert, you need to go through one to two years of "religious counselling" before you are permitted to convert... it at all. But better this than what happens elsewhere in most of Dar Al Islam. Do you wanna rock this boat of "moderate Muslims" and make the real Muslims take notice that these guys are not practicing what is preached? Can you talk to non-Muslims and risk being imprisoned for "spreading lies and hate and anarchy"? Being imprisoned without recourse to law under the dreaded Internal Security Act in a prison similar to Guantonomo where nobody can reach you? I think you need to apply wisdom wherever you are. There are no set rules. You only need to do what can be done in your circumstances. Knowing Yahweh does not mean you have to go to Sudan or Afghanistan or Mongolia to right the wrongs and convert them. But you have to engage, and engage wisely, or risk being reprimanded by Yahweh for "hiding the talent."
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
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