I really wish I had answers James, I really do... I would love to put myself across so much better. I have told people who I have spoken to that I wish I could transplant my heart into theirs so they know what the smeg I am going on about.

I do find though, myself more open to listening to the non-believer or skeptic/agnostic/atheist, because they get caught off balance when I agree with something they say :) Because some of the points brought to the table by non-religious types are logical reasoning as to why they are not or can not engage in religiousness, and some of the points are even correct, I can change their point of view quite rapidly.

For example I was having a discussion in work with my boss, and he said "Rob, I don't get all this religious stuff" I replied "thats fine, God does not like it much either" he looked at my quizzically and I went on to say "Do you understand the relationship you have with your wife?" he replies "yes, of course...." then in a quick sentence "because that is the kind of relationship God wants with you" it spins his mind round and hes suddenly looking at it from a different angle, we have successfully planted the seed that 1. "God" doesn't actually like religion and 2. He wants a relationship something like marriage...

this was great as I know he is now open to be thinking of this, and I know that he will ask about it more. It was the same for my other boss (2nd partner of the company... lol) Every time he had an encounter with a Christian friend he always tried to convert him... that turned Him off... so I asked "what was he trying to convert you to?" obviously he said Christianity, and then we were able to make him think by using another relationship analogy and explained that you cant convert to a relationship, you develop one, and relationship is all God wants.

So for the non-Christian its great, they seem to get it more than the Christian...

The most effective way I have spoken to Christians is by destroying Christian myth with historical evidence... Christian myth seems to roll of the tongue of the average Christian like it was fact - I know it did off my tongue... Like Sabbath for example, "Well we worship on Sunday because it was when Jesus rose from the dead". If you manage to get one down and for them to actually accept it, THEN the door is open for them to hear more - if they blow you off with religious theological blab then you can do no more... (other than consult Yah...) Remember some just wont listen, its painful, but thats just people...

Taken out of esword KJV+ module

Ezekiel 8:14

8:14 Then he brought935 me to413 the door6607 of the gate8179 of the LORD's3068 house1004 which834 was toward413 the north;6828 and, behold,2009 there8033 sat3427 women802 weeping1058 for854 Tammuz.8542
Eze 8:15 Then said559 he unto413 me, Hast thou seen7200 this, O son1121 of man?120 turn thee yet again,7725, 5750 and thou shalt see7200 greater1419 abominations8441 than these.4480, 428

Explain who Tammuz is and the origins of that fun. That one cuts right to the heart of the matter. That is what helped my wife see what I was talking about. The part about baby's blood, dying eggs, etc. from Michael Rood's videos helped my kiddos understand why no more christmas/easter.


Jer 16:21 Therefore,3651 behold,2009 I will this2063 once6471 cause them to know,3045 I will cause them to know3045 (853) mine hand3027 and my might;1369 and they shall know3045 that3588 my name8034 is The LORD.3068

See a logic flaw anywhere? Should be readily apparent to most folks. That can be good follow up, but I think it depends on your grounding. I'm just a newbie so I do the best I can, which usually means just plant seeds and move on.


Should be enough to get a dialog going. I've found that it easier to work with those "seeking", but where not I just pray for opportunities to speak about these things and many times doors are opened up. Funny enough, talking about everything going on in the middle east is a good conversation starter.

For agnostics and atheists I've personally found that something has to "happen to them" first. That's just my experience though, but I'm not experienced enough to know if there are better ways of reaching these types of folks. Perhaps this is a question to the former atheists / agnostics in the group. What was it that opened your eyes? Was it feelings, logic, or a combination?

Whatever you do, don't PUSH, just inform. That's been my experience anyway.

I don't mean to shock anyone here with what follows, however it seems to fit in with the subject of this thread. This last weekend I met some of my wife's friends who representated both Chrisitians (actually Catholics) and neo-Pagans. Most had not met me before and I think I surprised both camps.

Among the Catholics I recognized some disatification or questioning not of Messiah, but of the inistution. Here I asked if they knew about the origins of the claimed authority of the Church compared to what the Scriptures spoke of as eternal and unchanging which had been abbrogated. This was met with curousity and a desire to know more.

Among the Pagans (Heathens actually) who mostly came out of the RCC and had reasoned their argumenents against the teachings of that instuition and reasons to disbelieve the scriptures based on the 6,000 year old universe, and the evidence of the historical Yahushua not being regarded as proofs in their eyes and the unjustness of the testing of Adam and the doctrine of fiery hell for everyone who fails the test and are as they were created. One in particular I spoke with is a gay man who grew up the son of a Decon and regarded his existence in the Church as constanty pleading for his life knwoing that he'ed continue to struggle. He launched on the 6,000 year old universe, the flood, Adam's test, the lack of proofs of the historical Yahshua, the injustice of hell, the similarity of the Babylonian creation accounts one after the other.

Thankfully I was able to address each and every one these arguements (save the Babylonian creation) in turn from a YY/FH perspective. He did not know what to make of the Genesis account from YY as I relayed it, nor the three-doors, and the implication that has with respect to Yahuweh's desire to love and relate to us rather than to be served by us. He asked why Yah would desire prayers that He theoretically already knows wil be asked. I explained that He desires on us to work tother with Him, and likes to be asked, and to answer though unlike magic (a tool to see our will done), we leave the wisdom of the answer to His will and purpose even if these are not always the same.

One aspect that I did leave at but I'm not sure if I was in error to do so was on the nature of proofs. After being asked to leave out the material within the NT/RCS, what evidence or proofs exist to coroberate the existece of Yahushua. I noted the internal coroboration within this source and noted a few others that I was aware of such as Josephus, but acknowledged that the evidence is sufficent to lead one who chooses to seek to find Him, but is not so coersive that one who chooses to reject Him can raise the bar of what they're willing to consider to ignore/reject Him.

I also found it interesting that this particular Pagan/Heathen when I asked about his Norse creation account agreed that he did not accept the literal account, yet when asked about my belief in Yah noted that His acount is consistent with observable reality. I wonder why one would follow a path one knows to be suspect?

Thankfully despite our differences in faith everyone left on civil terms and we agreed to speak again. I suprising founfd that I enjoyed their company and sympathized with questions that led them from the Church or continues to trouble those with in the RCC. I don;t know if continued dialogue will be impactful and lead to a change of thinking, but take some comfort in what I understand Yada's position to be in delivering the authentic message and permiting the recipent to do with it what they will.

Absoulutly. I loved the movie Bruce Almighty, because the scene where Bruce asks God how do you make someone love you with out changing free will, and God tells him if you figure that out let me know. Thats really how I see Yahweh, wanting us to love him, just waiting for us. You can be as down as can be, and turn it around and Yah is right their waiting for you.

When I was first getting intrested in Scripture, and belief, I was given the book Hinds Feet On High Places, it is an alegory for children, but one of the most oft ocuring messages, is the main character keeps going astray, but is afraid to ask for help, eventully she does, and the shephered is immediatly their to help her, no matter how far she has strayed.