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Offline InHisName  
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 9, 2015 10:20:58 AM(UTC)
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I found this as the first comment to the article quoted below. I was going to respond but was inundated by the enormity of the task. It would take a page just to get through the first paragraph.

I thought it might be a fun project for the forum to chew up this Pauline B.S. So grab a piece and tells us what you think… (please add the basis/quotes for your views)

Learn their prophetic significance from discoverer of Blood Moons phenomenon
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/...day/#J7lKuLdbB8dqAEKH.99]

Some do claim that Gentiles should observe all the feasts; that there is "nothing wrong with the old covenants." And yet Paul is quite clear that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Rom 10:4)

Here's some more, "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. (Heb 8:7) Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;(vs8) "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. (vs9) And then the writer of Hebrews goes on to quote Jer 31:31-34 As he says, "In that He says, 'A new covenant' He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."(vs13)

Some claim that nowhere in Scripture does Paul state that God's instructions, the TORAH, the law, is done away with.", while God made it plain that there would be a "new covenant", insisting that is the old "Torah." The whole book of Galatians berates those who were seeking to continue in the Law. What does Paul say? "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth...having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal3:1,3) And in Eph2:8-9 he writes, "For by grace you have been saved through faith...not of yourselves...not of works."

Some have stated comments about the "Gentiles being grafted INTO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL." You see references to Romans 11 to make these claims. That when the "branches were broken off that I might be grafted in"(vs19) they would add, "grafted in...TO ISRAEL." They look at Ephraim and Manasseh being named as tribes (Gen48) is a foreshadow of Gentile being brought "into Israel." Well, the "branches were broken off." If the Gentiles are grafted "into Israel" then, they are also broken off. Think about it. Israel was temporarily broken off, in order that the Gentiles could be grafted in..."in" to "what" (or "Whom")? Jesus said, "I am the true vine..."(Jn15:1) When the wall of "enmity" between Jew and Gentile was broken down, the reconciliation was "TO GOD."(Eph2:14-16) Not, Gentile "to" Israel. This is Israel's big "problem." They rejected their Messiah first time 'round, and many of the current Messianists do, as well; pointing people to Jewish tradition, rather than the LORD Jesus Christ, Himself. They still don't accept their Messiah, Who already came. But when the vinedressers saw him, they reasoned among themselves, say, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours."(Lk20:14) As they actually reasoned, "If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation." (Jn11:48) As they did then, so they do now... And so, the LORD "[came] and destroy[ed] those vinedressers and [gave] the vineyard to others."(Lk20:16) ...Gentiles.(Acts28:28)

Paul's desire for Israel was "that they may be saved."(Rom10:1) While they had/have a zeal, they are "ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God." ...as "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, TO THIS VERY DAY." (11:8) They refuse to relinquish "ownership" of God, some claim, "there is no such thing as a Gentile Church" ..and misappropriate Israel and Judah's reunion in (Ez37:15-27) to mean Israel and the Church coming together, "In order for the two kingdoms to become one, Christianity needs to embrace the Torah and repent to God."
Do we see the need to "be diligent to present yourself to God... rightly dividing the Word of truth"(2Tm2:15)? To not simply accept what somebody says, but actually look up the references and see what God's Word DOES say, "to find out whether these things [are] so." (Acts17:11) But rest assured, in "that day" all Israel will be saved, under a "new" covenant. Christians were given two “observances”, The Lord’s Supper and Baptism. [quote/]
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 9, 2015 3:54:24 PM(UTC)
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Man, that is so erreant in so many ways. It's almost not even worth attempting. I will try to find some time in the coming weeks to dive in and see what I can put together, can't wait to hear what others have to say in the meantime.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Steve in PA  
#3 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2015 7:02:50 AM(UTC)
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Why waste time and energy beating a dead horse, showing that it is indeed dead when 99.99% of Christians who follow Paul and his words believe that the horse is just flying somewhere and will return...?
Remember the end of the movie "War Games" when the computer compares playing tic-tac-toe against himself with the projected results of full scale nucular war... the only way to win that game is not to play.
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2015 11:40:13 AM(UTC)
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The only real reason to respond is that since it was in a public forum, there is a chance someone with an open mind may come across it and you response may benefit them. I would have zero hope that the author of that will take heed of anything you post.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Sarah  
#5 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2015 5:47:35 PM(UTC)
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Have you asked him if he has read questioningpaul.com ?
thanks 1 user thanked Sarah for this useful post.
REPeet on 5/13/2020(UTC)
Online REPeet  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:23:38 AM(UTC)
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Trying to refute the "teachings" of Paul on a verse by verse argument is foolishness.

Have them flip to 2 Peter 3. Inform them that there is only one "New Testament" writer that the "New Testament" itself has a warning about. That what he teaches can be easily miscounstrued. Ask them if they are enough of a "Theologian" that they can explain to you which verses are the ones that are "easily misconstrued" and will cause their destruction. (If they try, tell them that you disagree with them and therefore "that" would disqualify that "doctrine" from your discussion).

Inform them that there are seven other "New Testament" writers that they can use to formulate their doctrines from. But you're just to "confused" and "afraid" to be able to "salvage" anything that Paul says.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 19, 2020 10:12:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Stewart James  
#7 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:12:22 AM(UTC)
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Yes, as mentioned, questioning Paul would be a really good place to start.

For me personally, when I first started to be come interested in scripture (Paul's is not)I read Galatians and particularly Galatians 2 wwhere Paul describes that God was at work in the ministry of James, Peter and John and he called them "Pillars", yet he said in 2/11 "When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong."

Pillars to my mind are the foundations of a building, Pillars support a whole structure and are therefore foundational, yet here we see paul going against Peter, a pillar of that foundation and so this was a clincher in itself that something was dreadfully wrong with Paul and that he was trying to re structure the foundation of the word!

Since I had found ths on my own, after later reading questioning Paul, I understood that my suspicions were entirely correct! I needed nothing more and no one Christian who supports Paul meant anything to me again!

Just my perspective and really simple! NO ONE should mess with the foundational word!

There really is nothing else that can change my mind or encourage me to listen to Paul! I tell this to and Christian who will listen and promote them to read questioning Paul themslves. Case Closed!
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease being honest!
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