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Offline Glfnaz  
#1 Posted : Monday, April 6, 2015 6:50:53 PM(UTC)
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Shemowth / Names / Exodus 12:15 teasches us not to consume foods that contain yeast (levening)

“Indeed (ky – because), any and every (kol) soul (nepesh) who consumes (‘akal
– eats and feeds upon, is nourished by) yeasted food (hames – bread which
includes yeast and has become soured) shall be cut off and separated (karat –
banished, cut down, severed, and uprooted; will face death and destruction upon
being eliminated) from (min) Yisra’el (‘ysh sarah ‘el – individuals who strive,
struggle, persist, endure, and persevere with and are empowered by God), from
the first (ri’shown) day (yowm) until (‘ad) the seventh (shaby’y) day (yowm).”

Didn't Yahowsha dring wine and eat bread at the Pesach meal with His followers. It doesn't say it was un-yeasted, although it may be assumed. But wine is fermented with yeast. I'm concerned as I did consume wine and had some cheese. Actually I am troubled that I may have made a mistake.
Anyone?
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:21:42 AM(UTC)
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First, speaking from experience, while yeast is used in the fermentation process there is no yeast left in either beer or wine when the process is complete.

Also hames speaks specifically of food, not drink, which is yeasted. And the leavening process is a process specific to breads and doughs. There is no leavening (rising) process in beer or wine, the yeast eats the sugars and produces CO2 and Alcohol. All CO2 produced escapes through an airlock while the fermented product remains and is force carbonated and bottled, but before that the beer is "cold crashed" a process which causes the yeast to settle to the bottom of the fermenter where it can be collected and reused, and therefore is not in the beer (wine is slightly different but for the most part the same). So there is no rising or leavening going on in the process. Therefore neither is a leavened product.

Yes Yahowsha is said to have drank wine at the meal he ate on Passover, and he ate bread. I would assume the bread was unyeasted based on the context and what we know of Yahowsha.

Personally I always have wine with my lamb, matsah and bitter herbs on Passover. And speaking from experience I have celebrated Matsah every year for about 9 years now, and I still slip up and eat yeasted bread from time to time just because I am an idiot and don't always think about what I am eating. Personally I see making a mistake in this regard as part of the intended meaning of the instruction. Yeast being symbolic of corruption or sin, the difficulty and discipline of avoiding yeast is akin to the difficulty and discipline of avoiding corruption and sin.

Remember though that this festival isn’t about being perfect, it’s about Yahowah being perfect so that we don’t have to. Yah knew we would all fall short of the mark, which is why he created the miqray, it’s what he has done that matters.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
thanks 4 users thanked James for this useful post.
Glfnaz on 4/8/2015(UTC), Sheree on 4/8/2015(UTC), matt on 4/8/2015(UTC), Fred Snell on 4/17/2015(UTC)
Offline Glfnaz  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:00:26 AM(UTC)
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Thank you James for the response. And thank you for posting it as I welcome others' insights as well. I feel better too! Realizing truths is a really fun experience.
thanks 1 user thanked Glfnaz for this useful post.
Fred Snell on 4/17/2015(UTC)
Offline Bubsy  
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 9, 2015 3:40:42 PM(UTC)
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From what I've heard and learned about the instruction for the week of Unleavened Bread, I get the feeling the part of those who eat yeasted bread being cut off and separated from Yisrael was for theocratic Israel, where it would be an illustration - sin or become corrupt, and you'll be on the outside wishing you were still in. And the difficulty and discipline of avoiding yeast being akin to the difficulty and discipline of avoiding corruption and sin sounds like a great analogy. Just the other day, my office went out to lunch at California Pizza Kitchen, again during the week of Unleavened Bread. Oooooh, the discipline it took to resist ordering the Meat Cravers pizza I so love there, and choose something else for lunch! Not to mention the bread with oil and herbs to dip it in brought to the table as well. Same with a salad at dinner on the second day of Unleavened Bread this year, where I noticed croutons had been put on the salads (I'm the only one in the house following the miqra'ey, quietly, while figuring out how to bring my parents along), and subtly avoiding eating the croutons, and discretely disposing of them while no one else was looking.
Ha Shem? I'm kind of fond of Ha Shemp, Ha Larry, and Ha Moe myself. And the earlier shorts with Ha Curly.
Offline Darin  
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2015 6:44:59 PM(UTC)
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(This is my first post - I've been reading YY and AITG and this forum, and listening the SM show, for about 6 months now, and I've finally got my forum account working. FYI, my moderately religious wife thinks I'm going overboard with, as she puts it, "the whole Old Testament thing", and my deeply religious mother-in-law, whom I pointed to blessyahowah.com, thinks I'm in some kind of cult. :) )

I think there's an analogy to be drawn between this sitaution: absentmindedly or accidentally eating chametz during Matzah, and the story of the man who was executed for gathering sticks on the Shabbat. In both cases Yahowah said that a person in that situation shall be cut off form his people, by whch He means His covenant.

Yada expressed a personal opionion at one point regarding the guy picking up sticks on the Shabbat that he figured there must have been a spiteful, rebelious character to the man's working on the Shabbat to prompt his execution, and I'm inclined to agree. Moreover, I think we can determine that using another line of reasoning, that will also bear on the issue of abentmindedly or accidentally eating chametz during Matzah.

We know that Hebrew verbs are for the most part unbound in time. When the Towrah says that, in response to a certain action, a person will be cut off from his people , it might just as well be saying that that person is cut off from the covenent, or indeed has already been cut off from the covenant. If a person is intentionally, rebelliously working on the Shabbath, or eating chametz during Matzah, with the attitude that they don't give a rip about Shabbath or Matzah, respectively, then they aren't in the covenant, if indeed they ever were. Shabbath and Matzah aren't magical rituals we carry out to put ourselves in the covenant or keep ourselves there, and working or eating chametz doesn't break the spell or disrupt the ritual. It isn't a specific action that removes a person from the covenent - the action is merely the visible consequence of an attitude that has already removed the person from the covenant, or more likely prevented the person from ever being in the covenant in the first place.

The upshot being that, if you are observing Unleavened Bread, and absentlymindedly swallow a bite or two of bread before stopping yourself, I don't think even theocratic Israel would stone you at the town gates for that. You understand what Yahowah is asking of us, and you care. That makes you one in less-than-a-million already. And that's before you consider that these are the Miqray that have already been fulfilled by Yahowsha. Whatever requirement there was for perfection in their fulfillment got taken care of by Him. Which is good for all of us because, while I can't speak for you, I know I didn't sacrifice my own lamb this year :) If our perfection mattered, then compared to that omission, I can't see accidentally eating some leaven making much of a difference.

Bubsy: you think that's bad? I went to my wife's aunt's on Sunday for the mainstream traditional dinner. My wife's family is very religious, and communion was served with little cups of wine and leavened bread to break and share. Normally I'm ok following Yahosha's instructions to eat bread and remember Him, particularly in a noninstitutional context, and I recogize that Yahowah isn't a religious deity and wants us to understand and relate to Him without just blindly carrying our rituals and laws, but taking communion (in itself iffy) with leavened bread in direct contravention of Matzah just seemed ridiculously beyond the pale, though I felt very awkward discretely pocketing the bread to dispose of later. (I've come to realize, of course, that when Yahowsha said we were to eat His flesh he was referring to the Passover lamb, and not the unleavened bread at all, but I don't anticipate my wife's family ever seeing that.)
thanks 1 user thanked Darin for this useful post.
matt on 4/29/2015(UTC)
Offline James  
#6 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2015 7:52:46 AM(UTC)
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Welcome to the forum Darin. Well stated too. It is the mindset that matters, and actions are just indications of mindset.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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