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Offline Sarah  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2014 12:15:45 PM(UTC)
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I am really puzzled by all the NT references to the "soon return" of Yahowsha. It seems that all the disciples expected Yahowsha to return in their lifetime. They write about this as "the final hour"; Yahowsha says "THIS generation shall see all these things . . ." Wouldn't "THAT generation" make more sense?javascript:insertsmiley('Confused ','/Images/Emoticons/msp_confused.gif')
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:04:48 AM(UTC)
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Not sure where the "the final hour" quote is from, but if you let me know I can look at i.

The This generation comment, if it is the one I think you are referenceing Matthew 24:34, it follows a long list of signs and then he concludes with saying this generation, meaning the generation who witnesses these signs, shall not pass away until all takes place. Also the greek word translated this, is ho which can mean: the; this, that; he, she, or it. So the choice of this over that is the translators, so it could just as easily be that generation.

Personaly I have not studied the disciples letters a whole lot, I know that Paul predicted the return would be in his life time, but did others?
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

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Offline cgb2  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 9:38:05 AM(UTC)
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ISR1998
Joh 21:20 And Kĕpha, turning around, saw the taught one whom יהושע loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Master, who is the one who is delivering You up?”
Joh 21:21 Seeing him, Kĕpha said to יהושע, “But Master, what about this one?”
Joh 21:22 יהושע said to him, “If I wish him to remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”
Joh 21:23 Therefore this word went out among the brothers that this taught one would not die. However, יהושע did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I desire him to remain until I come, what is it to you?”
Joh 21:24 This is the taught one who bears witness about these matters, and wrote these matters. And we know that his witness is true.
Offline Sarah  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:17:50 AM(UTC)
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James,

I realize that some of these verses are not extant in pre-Constantine mss.

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

“Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.” (1 John 2:18)

“…the coming of Yah* is near. …the Judge is standing right at the door.” (James 5:8, 9)

“Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.” (Revelation 1:3)

“And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. “And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.” And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.“”… (Revelation 22:6,7,10,12,20)
Confused
Offline James  
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:22:01 PM(UTC)
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None of Matthew 16 is extant, so it is impossible to know what was orriginally written.

The same is true for the 1 John verse, James 5 only has the first verse extant. While we have 4-7 of Rev 1 we do not have 1-3. And none of the 22nd chapter is extant.

Speaking of the Revelation verses, quickly is a very relative term. 2 thousand years on the span of millions is quick for Yah.

But I would say overall these verse just prove that the Greek text is unreliable and should not be used other than to confirm what is already knowable from the Towrah.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

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Offline Richard  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2014 6:58:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: James Go to Quoted Post
... I would say overall these verse just prove that the Greek text is unreliable and should not be used other than to confirm what is already knowable from the Towrah.


Hear here! That pretty much sums it up, brother. O! That more Christians might open their eyes to that critical truth!

Offline James  
#7 Posted : Friday, September 26, 2014 1:41:08 PM(UTC)
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Have to wonder, pure speculation here, how much was added to make Paul look better. We have extant copies of Paul's prophecy of the rapture being in his lifetime. So perhaps after he died and they realized he was wrong verses like these were added to make it look like Paul wasn't the only one predicting it in that generation. Again just speculation.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

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Offline cgb2  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 29, 2014 12:49:43 PM(UTC)
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And moreover how much has and hasn't been fulfilled and spans of time? Like for instance it seems Yahowsha ties "not one stone will be left upon another" <70 AD> to "abomination that causes desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet", and certainly those in Judea should flee not even turning to get their garment, but many did years before too. I often ponder, since Yah usually gives 40's of testing...I wonder timespan since Yahowsha uttered that until Titus destruction...although the final stand at Masada I think was in 72CE. It certainly was another terrible "time of the end".
Daniels "little horn" could certainly be the "holey roman empire" changing the times and seasons and certainly Pope calling themselves "vicar of christ" is "speaking boastful".
Just how much xtian end-times teaching is distorted so as to not implicate the church?
Offline Sarah  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:00:57 PM(UTC)
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Have you ever heard of this vision (66 CE) which was also recorded by Josephus?

"Sepher Yosippon" is a 10th century historical Jewish document written in Hebrew that mentions the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Sefer Josippon also mentions the vision of soldiers and chariots in the sky which we read in Josephus' Jewish Wars, Tacitus's Histories, Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History, and Latin Document Pseudo Hegesippus.

Sepher Yosippon (A Medieval History of Ancient Israel) translated from the Hebrew by Steven B. Bowman. Excerpts from Chapter 87 "Burning of the Temple"

"Moreover, in those days were seen chariots of fire and horsemen, a great force flying across the sky near to the ground coming against Jerusalem and all the land of Judah, all of them horses of fire and riders of fire. When the holiday of Shavu'oth came in those days, during the night the priests heard within the Temple something like the sound of men going and the sound of men marching in a multitude going into the Temple, and a terrible and mighty voice was heard speaking: "Let's go and leave this House."

Edited by user Friday, October 17, 2014 9:34:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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