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Offline seeker83  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 7:05:44 PM(UTC)
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Hello everyone, I am new to the journey of seeking to be part of Yah's family, and brand new to this forum. I was "born again" at around age 9 or 10 (I'm 31 now) and have been active in the non-denominational church for almost that whole time, mainly in music ministry. I recently (a few months ago) decided to study tithing. The church I attend requires that "church leaders" tithe. I have always tithed from the time I had my first job but in the back of my mind I have always been confused about the mish-mash of "law and grace" where things like Sabbath are no longer required but things like paying tithes are. So I started just with researching this singular issue, and I had literally NO IDEA what that would lead to. I can't even put into words all that I've discovered and all the feelings overwhelming me with each day as I voraciously study. I can't get enough. I'm only on the 3rd chapter of ITG and I have learned more than I ever knew in all my years of being a Christian. Anyway, I know I have not even scratched the surface but at this time I am already convinced that I MUST leave religion (and my church) behind. Presently I am a "worship leader" at a local megachurch, having responsibility in the music ministry and leading "praise and worship" weekly. I have taken a sabbatical for the past few weeks as my initial study became alarming and eye-opening, but that time is up and I am expected to return. I simply can't go back. I would love any tips on how to proceed without causing a gigantic uproar. Do I write a letter to the Minister of Music and Bishop? I know without a doubt they will think I have lost it, am leaving God and have been snatched by Satan and I don't even know how to articulate everything I'm learning at this point. But I can't go back, not even to a single service, knowing that Yah hates it. I have so many friends there, I am looked up to as a leader, my children attend the private church school....this will have enormous impact on my life and my family, I'd appreciate any and all help/tips/advice.
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Sarah on 6/23/2014(UTC)
Offline cgb2  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 8:20:07 PM(UTC)
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Welcome to the forum. Excited for you!
Been about 4.5 years now since I walked away from christianity, and started much the same way. Seen one major lie, and asked what other lies have I inherited and dug deep...at each point choosing Yah's truth and discarding lies, no matter how unpopular it is. Probably no graceful exit here, and believe me - all the verses you learned about persecution will become most viscious from christians. You are a major threat to babylon's business and authority, especially if you share your findings on "tithes".
In hindsight I wish I would have studied/prepared/understood more before sharing with others. I had no idea how deep the lies, cover ups are...and even worse how obvious it is when honestly seeking. Especially how most is twisted/anulled/overridden thru the lens of Paul's lies.
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Offline Yah Tselem  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 8:41:12 PM(UTC)
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So glad to hear you are walking away from religion and into the arms of Yahowah! Welcome & thanks for sharing. When I first left Xtianity, I had this idea that if I shared what I was learning with people, they would see the truth and walk out of the lies - however I was let down big time because most did not listen....however, my wife & 3 of my 4 kids have come to know the truth about Yahowah and are part of His family too so that has just been wonderful for me. I remember feeling like a sponge too, just soaking in the truth about our Creator & I just couldn't get enough. I have learned over the years to share with people who are open to the truth.. sadly over 99% of people are not at all open to the truth, and some when confronted with it, catch a glimpse of it but they just have too much invested to give it up.. there comes a point where you decide if you want a life following the truth and being part of Yah's family, or just stay put in what you were taught about religion and not take the chance of being an outcast from those who are near & dear to you.. well, it seems you have chosen Yahowah's path and that is what really matters here.. personally, I like to post about Yahowah on Facebook so that my lost religious friends and family can have a chance to see the truth about Yah.. that's my way of sharing with them.. I also share with people when they ask about it or when the subject comes up.. It's not easy to leave the life you know and it doesn't happen overnight.. it is a transition.. When I was in your shoes over 10 years ago, I spoke to God about it every morning for quite some time.. I just asked Him to keep revealing the truth to me no matter what - even if it went against everything I was ever taught, just teach me about the REAL YOU.. and boy did He. After that, I slowly started excusing myself from Christmas parties, Halloween, etc etc all the pagan born BS and just embraced Him & His Word and it has been wonderful and keeps getting better. We've got plenty of family members here on the forum and there's also a whole bunch of us on Facebook..
I am just so happy to hear you are walking away from religion.. imagine how ecstatic our Creator Yahowah must be.
“Yahowah’s directions are right and upright, causing the heart to rejoice. Yahowah’s terms and conditions are morally pure and are purifying shining a light toward understanding.” (Mizmowr / Song / Psalm 19:8)
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seeker83 on 6/23/2014(UTC)
Offline Sheree  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2014 9:41:30 PM(UTC)
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welcome to here and welcome to Yahowahs family.I hope that your wife shares your new knowledge of Yahowah and will help teach your childred.Indeed the first thing you have to do is depart babylons religions and politics.A simple resignation for personal reasons should work and when asked then share boldly your reasons even if you dont think you know how to articulate your answers yet.For sure you will be blacklisted and end up quite alone,but if you have or will meet with Yahowah then you have traded dung for all the treasures of Yah.He said we would be hated for his names sake and he told the truth there.Some have lost their marriages and children and other family and friends by leaving babylon.But as for me I would rather lose the world than to lose Yahowah.
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seeker83 on 6/23/2014(UTC), FredSnell on 10/17/2014(UTC)
Offline seeker83  
#5 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2014 9:36:56 AM(UTC)
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Thank you all so much for your encouragement. Sheree - I think I will use the "personal reasons," although I'm pretty sure they will want a more substantive explanation, and at that point I hope I will have the boldness and the words to admit that my eyes are being opened to the truth of God and I am choosing to continue to pursue that truth, which is in opposition to what is being taught and embraced "at church."

I am actually a wife BigGrin, but to your point about my family, I am really hoping and praying my husband will come along on this journey. I worry because he is not as...I guess, scholastic, and he is looking at me like I have several heads because I am literally reading and studying with every free moment, and my conversation is overwhelmingly skewed to the truths I'm discovering nowadays. I think he thinks I'm going off the deep end. Sad I have already mentioned that I know we have to remove the kids from the school, and on one hand he's like, "great, no more tuition, let's send them to public school!" LOL but on the other hand, he's like, "what other enormous changes do you have up your sleeve girl??" It's quite the conundrum.

I'm kinda petrified at what this will all cost, because my life is so wrapped up in church and religion...there are people at my church that I'm sure will distance me instantly simply for disagreeing with "Bishop." But I am so exhilirated and just awestruck...as cgb2 says, at how obvious it all is. Right under my nose all this time! I just...I have no words. Anyway, thank you all and I will let you know how it goes.
Offline Glfnaz  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:19:36 PM(UTC)
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Once you walk away from the lies and embrace the truth you will not believe how the fog will lift and you can see the truth so much more clearly. It is then that yah will show you the truths. It gets to the point that you will not compehend the crazy stuff you used to believe.
Yet sadly most of your friends will not get it. For them, the fog has not lifted and they cannot see what you are now seeing.
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seeker83 on 6/25/2014(UTC), FredSnell on 10/17/2014(UTC)
Offline seeker83  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 5:03:02 AM(UTC)
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Well, I sent in my resignation email, erring on the side of brevity (maybe to a fault), and this is the exchange to this point. I'm forming my response but if anyone has any input to this point, I would appreciate it. I sent my message to the bishop, first lady and head of the music ministry:

-------- Original message --------
From: seeker83
Date:06/24/2014 4:52 PM (GMT-05:00)
To:
Subject: Resignation

Hello,

I hope this note finds you all well. It’s very hard for me to let you know that
due to personal reasons, I won’t be attending or serving at (the church)
anymore. I want you to know that my decision is in no way related to you or any
other individual, any “church hurt” or similar silliness…and that I appreciate
the love and kindness each of you has extended to me and my family. I am also
not transitioning to another church.

I consider you friends and pray God’s very best for you.

Sincerely,
seeker83

Response:

seeker83,

Was this intended for me?

-Bishop

My response:

yes

His response:

I read this on my phone riding home with no readers on and didn't get the jest of it. I saw "hello" and "friends" so I wasn't sure that it was being addressed to me.

I would never have thought that I'd receive a resignation email from someone as focal and appreciated by me as you are. I am a student of the church and I am always made better when people come in and exit my life and ministry. I learn so much about me in the process.

I will say that this is definitely not the way to resign from a ministry or from a fellowship. A phone call, a personal visit and exit interview or any thing more personal would be normal even in the secular. It is my prayer that you could be a little more detailed and little more personal in this matter.

I can truly say that I love you and have spoken of great things for you and your family. So, I'd like to know what your plans are. Hebrews 13 makes me responsible to know so that I can answer to God for your whereabouts and spiritual condition.

And, does this mean that my search for the Mark III has to cease???

Please respond,

Your bishop, servant and friend.


Offline seeker83  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 10:19:09 AM(UTC)
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Here is the response I sent:

Bishop,

I knew you would disapprove of a resignation via email, as you’ve stated your opinion on this before. I can admit that I selfishly wanted to forego a face to face meeting because 1 – I didn’t want to be compelled to defend my decision, so to speak, 2 – I knew it would be emotional for me and 3 – I present myself more clearly in writing.

Recently, I’ve become somewhat a “student of the church” as well. And, excuse my bluntness, but I’ve come to realize I don’t like it, and neither does God. Not (this church) specifically, “the institutionalized church” altogether. I view it as a bastion of religion and I’m no longer of the mind to embrace religion, a bucket into which Christianity falls for me. You may think I’m heretical at this point, but to the contrary, I’ve been reading, studying and finally understanding God’s Word more and more since I’ve slowly been unplugging from religious activity and seeking what God has to say about issues I’ve grappled with for basically my whole life…issues like:

• Why do Christians call the Son of God “Jesus” when that is not his given name, and is neither a translation nor a transliteration of his true and proper name? And yet we claim there is “power” in this name?
• Why do Christians claim “Jesus” is our perfect example, but we neither do what He did nor follow His instructions? Why aren’t we bothered by Paul’s complete dismantling and disregard for God’s Torah (teaching, not law to be meticulously kept) in Galatians, even though his position completely contradicts the words of God Himself (the Sermon on the mount is practically an ode to the Torah)?
• Why did “Jesus” come, observing and fulfilling the Torah (himself the fulfillment/embodiment of God’s instructions), then wait until after his death and resurrection to appear privately to Paul and give him a new revelation entirely counter to what He lived and taught amongst His own disciples?
• Whose idea was Sunday worship? God only ever designated one specific day as set-apart, and Christians completely ignore this?
• Why do we blatantly participate in intellectual dishonesty by telling ourselves that “the entire Bible” is the “inerrant Word of God” and that “Scripture” includes the “New Testament?”
• How was “Jesus” 100% God and 100% man…yet He died. The entirety of God can fit into a single human being? God died?

These are just a few of the questions that have bugged me; I have many more…but honestly I have always been too lazy to study. And I errantly accepted that there were things we should “just believe” and not worry about understanding. I find that the system and structure of Christianity/the church by its very nature discourages independent and personal study. For example, you have always encouraged all of us to study and know the Word for ourselves…but just by virtue of the fact that you are viewed as a “spiritual authority,” the natural inclination of the typical believer is to take YOU at YOUR word, then if we do actually bother to attempt to verify, that’s all we’re doing: simply looking for ways to verify a predetermined stance we have already accepted, and then engage in proof texting to support that stance. Church members in general don’t study the Word of God or even the Bible. They read portions of it, from time to time, but actual study isn’t happening for most. I believe you know this to be true.

So, I have finally resolved to get to know God for myself, and the journey so far has been scary but worth it. I’m hyper-aware that I’m not some special, enlightened pundit who is smarter than everybody, and knows the answers and everybody else is wrong. That’s not what I’m saying, and you would know better if I tried to imply such a thing anyway! I just want to know God for myself, and I’ve realized that He CAN and WANTS TO be known, not simply believed. He can be trusted and proven on the basis of His own reliability, not just the object of blind and ignorant faith. And although I can be a proud person at times, I promise you, Bishop, if I discover I’m wrong, I will run back, beg your forgiveness and fully expect that you would welcome me back because you love me, and you love people period. But to quote one Ronald Shider, “I know I’m right!”

I’m seeking God and I have to dedicate more time to this pursuit. I can’t “fit it in” around church activity. I have to dedicate myself fully to it, as I have been for the past several months. Respectfully, I have lots of issues with whomever wrote Hebrews, as so much of it contradicts the testimony of God, so I disagree that you have to answer to God concerning my whereabouts and the condition of my soul. To the contrary, God has given us free will precisely so that He can hold each of us accountable for our own relationship with Him, and because He is just, He will only judge those who deliberately lead His children away from Him and into deception. As long as you have not done that, you are not accountable to God should I choose to stray, although as I’ve said, that’s not at all what I’m doing. I dearly love you, and think of you as a remarkable person, with exceptional giftings, and I would never attack or disrespect you, so please understand my perspective as I share my thoughts, per your request.

Sincerely,
seeker83
Offline matt  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 11:28:56 AM(UTC)
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Seeker83,

I am so happy for you making the changes you are. Like yourself, I am new to the Covenant. Letting go of my own erroneous ways (man's garbage) was only difficult for a second, and I am not looking back. Being outside of religion and politics is infinitely liberating.

Don't let the opinions or esteem of those who make a living destroying the souls of others get you down. Religion is the spiritual equivalent of genocide. There's not a dimes worth of difference in a christian pastor, an imam, or adolph hitler (except that two of them were more honest than the other).

In my own life, the institutional hurdles are gone, but the family challenges remain. As my own understanding of the Covenant improves, I am eager to share it with those I love. I am under no illusions that it will be well recieved, but willing to accept reality.

Regards.
Offline seeker83  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:07:36 PM(UTC)
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Graylake - thank you! Your post is very helpful. I will start working on compiling my list of questions/facts regarding the inconsistency of Christianity with Yah's testimony, that sounds like a great exercise and useful for talking with family/friends.
Offline pilgrimhere  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 4:17:09 PM(UTC)
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“Heb. 13 makes me responsible to know so that I can answer to God for your whereabouts and spiritual condition.”
What tripe! Do not acquiesce to such a ploy. Honestly, I suspect the less interaction with any xtians for a while, the better you will progress in your departure from Babel. You have no obligation to any ‘bishop’.

Hello seeker, if you must have any continued interaction with xtians then please consider graylake’s approach – that of presenting questions that cannot be answered honestly while legitimizing xtianity. Making statements based on what you are learning will be so far out of their paradigms that nothing productive is likely to result. Concentrate on your own family with gentle inquiry regarding conflicting or otherwise nonsensical information (primarily from Paul) that defies what is apparent from Torah. Some description with applicable dialogue can be found on this forum here (pdf’s in post #5) as well as many other discussions on this forum.

I do empathize with you as I have walked the path you are on, albeit not ‘in your shoes’. What you will discover soon is freedom to breathe and live and know and understand … no more church routine to keep you out of hell. I remember my difficulty in deleting around 80% of my music library including Keith Green, Rich Mullins and dozens of similar artists. Today, I don’t look back. Once you know and understand the instructions we are given, you simply lose all interest in believing lies.

Some authors to consider are Bart Erhman, Elain Pagels and CJ Koster (Come Out of Her My People) and others who may not draw the correct conclusions but definitely identify many fallacies and deceptions. Also search: ‘abranchofthetruevine’ on youtube for some enlightening content.

I suspect some well-meaning ‘counselors’ and friends may attempt to keep you in the ‘flock’. You may be bombarded with questions. I recommend refraining from answering those and respond instead with a similar question. For example: “Why are you leaving?” > “Why aren’t you searching?”; “Why are you focusing on the ‘OT’?” > “Why are you focusing on the NT at the expense of the OT?”; “Will you ignore what Paul says here and there about participating in our stuff?” > “Would you prefer I ignore what Yahowah says here and there about participating in His appointed meetings?”. These of course lead deeper and deeper into questioning xtianity’s legitimacy. Expect to lose some friendships that you never imagined could be severed.

I wish you the best on your journey out (with your family)!
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seeker83 on 6/27/2014(UTC)
Offline Glfnaz  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 25, 2014 5:47:16 PM(UTC)
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The Xtian Bbishop said, " Hebrews 13 makes me responsible to know so that I can answer to God for your whereabouts and spiritual condition".

Does he really believe that he is responsible to answer to his god about your whereabouts and spiritual condition? Who gave him this authority?
Offline chrud  
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 26, 2014 6:52:53 AM(UTC)
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I talk regularly with a calvary chapel friend, showing him what I know and observe about Yah. Almost every point he brings up shows a reference to Paul, which I point out to him, and yet he can't see the corruption. The bishop's only response here is to follow Paul. I am amazed that this is so blatent to me, but completely missed by christians. Now I just chuckle every time I see it.
I enjoy these posts that show how christians respond to truth. I hope you continue to share your experience through this.
-chrud (not your bishop or your servant, only your new friend)
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seeker83 on 6/27/2014(UTC)
Offline James  
#14 Posted : Thursday, June 26, 2014 7:48:17 AM(UTC)
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Seeker,

Nice concise post pointing out some of the biggest flaws in christianity. Be prepared for a verbal attack, most likely personal, as the "Bishop" will have no logical retort to it.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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seeker83 on 6/27/2014(UTC)
Offline seeker83  
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 26, 2014 8:25:59 AM(UTC)
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Thank you all for your encouragement. I must say, the following response I received from him last night was better than I expected. Knowing him somewhat personally, I didn't expect him to attack me, and he didn't. However, he didn't address any of my questions, while he did reference the "bible college" which I think is a group of separate study sessions he teaches. I almost want to enroll, to see if as he presents below, he has legitimate answers to these questions.

For some context, he absolutely does preach a disdain for religion but is seemingly unaware of the extent to which the church participates in it. According to his teaching, his disdain seems to be for denominationalism moreso than actual religion. He's very hard on denominations (Baptist, COGIC, AME etc), but he doesn't view all of the activity associated with his church to be religious in nature - activities like weeklong anniversary celebrations/services that completely wear out those who serve in ministry, a focus on loyalty to him (as spiritual father) and to the "local body," focus on tithing and offerings as a spiritual mandate, the expectation of submission to his authority as God-given, etc. His style/tone in this exchange has been far less intimidating than his preaching style, and I can't help but feel that it's because I feel freedom to speak without fear because I have removed myself from "under his covering." Anywhow, here is his response:

"Just to let you know that I'm in receipt of your email. I'm at ease that you freely shared "exactly" why you have done what you've done. You actually sound like me. There is nothing that you've stated in your email that I have not voiced and taught and come to understand from the word of God as to "WHY I DO WHAT I DO". I had all of those questions and found the answers from God and the word of God.

Keep in mind I was the non church goer. I'm sure you know my disdain for religious activity and the institutional church. Been preaching about it and manifesting as best I know how ministry that not only preaching against it but does something about it. Being the church and not going to church or having church and KNOWING God for yourself is the story of my life and my life's message. Obviously, I have not done a good job in exposing you to the teachings that answers these questions that you have shared with me.

The reason we started the bible college was to make sure that people know God and know the "truth" about the word of God, where it comes from, who wrote it and how we should interpret it. I do believe that "theology is best form/developed in community". That is studying with others. The word is not given to private interpretation. Be careful.

I heard your reasons for not wanted a "face to face", I totally understand your concern. Again, I just hate that I haven't presented to you an open door that many have walked through to wrestle with and discuss things that seem to contradict the entirety of the word of God. It is still so necessary and so in order to bring these issues to the leadership of your church and see what the answers would be. There are answers to everyone of the things you mentioned in your email. Millions have asked the same questions and many have gotten answers that have been thoughtful and scholarly and not prejudiced and or opinionated.

I do love you and your family. I would lie if I said that I wasn't concerned. I don't see the problem from a biblical perspective. These are legitimate concerns and I've had them myself and God has answered me.

In closing, why not ask me about them? Why not seek a response from those who have themselves wrestled with the same issues and came away with answers. I'm here for you, I'll be here if you ever get to the point where you want to sit down face to face. I'm open to change, I don't wink at truth. I don't run from God's word for the church. I believe we all need to be willing to change our theology. I've believed this and preached this all of my life. I had church the way it's been institutionalized, and religion the ways it's been presented as truth. But there are authorities and people who spoke for God throughout the entire bible, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Joshua, the prophets: the people honored and revered their words as authoritative. He's not left without a witness today.


Much love and I am praying that God will show us what's right. It's important to our eternity.

Bishop"
Offline cgb2  
#16 Posted : Friday, July 25, 2014 12:26:02 AM(UTC)
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Wow.He avoided answering anything except vague "assurance" they could be answered if you stay in the fold. Likely to be something like - have faith, don't question things, submit to our authority.
Offline cgb2  
#17 Posted : Friday, July 25, 2014 11:13:05 PM(UTC)
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Since you mentioned Paul, seems it's thought a Christians strongest argument is Peters ringing endorsement of Paul as scripture in 2 Peter 3:15-16 (but often avoid v17). THis is covered in
http://questioningpaul.c...icted_and_Condemned.Paul
about 1/4 way down thru that chapter.
Audio QP also available at:
http://www.yhwh-qra.com/qp.aspx
Offline cgb2  
#18 Posted : Saturday, July 26, 2014 10:00:40 AM(UTC)
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<KJV>
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation....
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Ackkk! The prophets (especially Yermiyah <Jerimiah>), and Yahowsha really oppose man's religious systems of hiarchies with paid rulers plundering and misleading their flocks, and often align themselves with political rulers, each affirming the others divine right to rule (Romans 13). Using terms "babylon", "whoring", "Nicolaitins", etc. Seems all of Yah's spokesmen had real jobs, and shared freely. Even the Lewy were deliberately kept poor - their inheritance was Yahowah.
Offline Molly  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, September 10, 2014 8:04:12 AM(UTC)
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Hi seeker83-

Actually Ezekial 34 tells that YHWH will hold your bishop accountable, but not in the way he thinks. Rather the shepherds will be held responsible for scattering the sheep, not feeding the sheep, and for feeding off the sheep. Also they will be charged trampling the pasturage and with muddying the water, so the sheep cannot feed or drink the pure waters.

Yes, they have an accounting!

Molly
Offline FredSnell  
#20 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 11:19:46 AM(UTC)
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"Yahowsha said, " And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for my name sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." Mattanyah-Matthew 19:29

"And it came to be, when the people were as complainers, it was evil in the eyes of Yahowah. And Yahowah heard it, and His displeasure burned. And the fire of Yahowah burned among them, and consumed those in the outskirts of the camp."Bamidbar-Numbers 11:1

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