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Offline Hermine Dow  
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:35:35 AM(UTC)
Hermine Dow
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ITG 3-2 p. 25 "While overlooking the significance of Yah's towrah is personally devastating; bending and twisting God's Word, and conspiring with others to turn away from His voice, is an unforgivable sin."

That's quite a statement! How can you back this up? By saying it's unforgivable, do you mean then that such a one is beyond having their own deaf ears and blind eyes opened? that such a one is beyond repentance?
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:43:41 AM(UTC)
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Look at the 3rd of the 10 Statments Yah scribed in stone.

You shall not lift up, support, or advance, forgive or dignify, respect or tolerate, through the name or reputation of Yahuweh your God, accordingly, lifeless and worthless deception or devastating and destructive falsehood, for indeed Yahuweh will not forgive or leave unpunished those who relationally deceive, beguile, or delude, using clever trickery to mislead in association with His name to promote vain and ineffectual lies which lead to lifelessness and destruction or devastating deceptions which nullify our existence leading to emptiness.

You shall not tolerate (nasa - lift up, accept, advance, bear, respect, regard, yield to, or pardon) the name (shem - position, individual nature, designation, honor, authority, character, mark, fame, prominence, reputation, or report) of YHWH (Yahuweh) your God (elohiym - Supreme and Mighty One, Deity) in a desolate (shaw - separating, abandoning, forsaking, damning, deserting, lifeless, debilitating, wretched, destructive, evil, beguiling, false, ruinous, idolatrous, harmful, devastating, deceptive, or ravaging) way. For Yahuweh will not exonerate (naqah - cleanse, acquit, hold blameless, leave unpunished, or forgive) him who accepts (nasa - lifts up, tolerates, advances, respects, yields to, or pardons) His authority (shem - position, nature, designation, honor, name, character, mark, prominence, reputation, and report) being used in damning (shaw - desolating, separating, abandoning, forsaking, lifeless, beguiling, false, or deceptive)way.

Exodus chapter 20.

Bending and twisting Yah's word is lifting up and supporting lifeless deceptions, and is the one thing Yah said He will not forgive.

The reason, or one of the reasons, this is unforgivable is that it is the spiritual equivalent of murdering someone. Choosing to reject Yah your self is one thing, but knowingly and willfully leading others away is the equivalent of destroying their souls.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Hermine Dow  
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 11:14:04 AM(UTC)
Hermine Dow
Joined: 4/13/2013(UTC)
Posts: 193
Location: Rochester,NY

Could I assume that this applies to someone who is doing it knowingly, wilfully, perhaps for money or power/control, etc. ? Could someone be preaching lies because they believe the lies/interpretations that have been told them and haven't taken time, or had tools, to learn the truth? I'm hoping there is still some 'winking at ignorance'? Of course, this is a facetious question, isn't it. the Word stands...the death penalty stands...I just HOPE such a one could repent for ignorance, that there could be forgiveness for repented of ignorance. surely we have all been ignorant at one time!
Offline James  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 3, 2014 3:17:32 AM(UTC)
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If someone is ignorantly teaching lies and walks away from and it and walks to Yah then there probably is hope. I don't see that happening. In my experience most who are teaching religion know that what they are teaching is wrong, or at the very least know that is is not entirely right. And when you think about it, if someone is teaching out of ignorance then they are still guilty of the crime. The fact is that if you hold yourself up as a teacher, Yah is going to hold you accountable for what you teach.

Errant translations say, "Judge not lets you be judged." But what he said was, "Separate not lest you be separated."
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Richard  
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 6, 2014 5:18:17 AM(UTC)
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James wrote:
If someone is ignorantly teaching lies and walks away from and it and walks to Yah then there probably is hope. I don't see that happening. In my experience most who are teaching religion know that what they are teaching is wrong, or at the very least know that is is not entirely right. And when you think about it, if someone is teaching out of ignorance then they are still guilty of the crime. The fact is that if you hold yourself up as a teacher, Yah is going to hold you accountable for what you teach.

Errant translations say, "Judge not lets you be judged." But what he said was, "Separate not lest you be separated."


When I was teaching adult Sunday School classes I completely believed what I was teaching. When it became apparent to me that all was not as it seemed, I fled the church scene but still harbored basic Christian doctrine in my heart. I campaigned for that abominable made-up name and the fictional "gospel of grace" that he supposedly ushered into the world with his death on the "cross" for our sins. As I probed deeper into the truth of things, Yah allowed the scales to start dropping from my eyes until I was finally-FINALLY-able to realize the monstrous truth about the wolf of Benyamin. Once He had removed that thickest of veils, the others began falling down: instructions, not laws; willful cooperation, not obedience; standing and walking, not bowing down; listening, carefully considering, and conversing, not worshipping and "praying" without ceasing. Once I came to understand the terms and conditions of His singular binding marriage contract, His Covenant, I couldn't embrace them fast enough. And since I have been looking into His Torah, Prophets, and Songs, I have fallen more deeply in love with Him.

Have I been forgiven? I trust that I have. I rely on His mercy in that regard. For in the same place where He promises not to forgive those who deceive others in His Name or while claiming to have a position with Him that doesn't really exist, He also declares that He shows mercy to thousands who love Him. Throughout the Torah, Prophets, and Songs, His emphasis is always more on reconciliation and restoring than on condemnation and separation. So I am confident that I am His. "Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of Yahowah forever."

As for sinning in ignorance, see Bamidbar / In the Wilderness / Numbers 15:22-31.

Hope this helps.

Richard
Offline James  
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:54:25 AM(UTC)
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I have no doubt you have been forgiven Richard. Unlike most religious teachers, when presented with the truth you turned and walked away, most will never do that. You are part of the 1 in a million people that is open to Yah's Word. I don't know how many false teachers are doing it knowingly and how many unknowingly, but they both by and large share a hatred for the truth.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Bubsy  
#7 Posted : Saturday, March 29, 2014 5:27:02 AM(UTC)
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I would add to what has already been said here, that as I recall from Intro to God and Yada Yah, most of the relevant verbs were scribed in the imperfect, meaning that it is those who make an ONGOING HABIT of KNOWINGLY AND DELIBERATELY DECEIVING others into spiritual lifelessness that Yahowah will not forgive and not leave unpunished. Richard's case is the opposite - he thought what he was teaching was true, but when he realized that what he had been teaching wasn't true, he quickly stopped and changed his conduct. The way I understand it, that third of ten statements describes the big ringleaders of organized religion, like Sha'uwl (a.k.a. Paul), Mohammed, Constantine, most Popes, especially those who deliberately set out to make following Yahowah's path (observing Passover, observing Saturday as the Sabbath, etc.) into "crimes" punishable by death, thereby infringing free will. And it may well also include other notorious tyrants who oppressed and infringed free will, especially with regard to following The Way. But that doesn't mean lesser-known people can't earn that "greater condemnation". I would suspect that the average Sunday School teacher who teaches what he or she believes to be true as (s)he was taught and understands it, will simply be allowed to go *POOF* as a deceived victim of what (s)he was taught, but I sure wouldn't want to take the chance of being in that position.
Ha Shem? I'm kind of fond of Ha Shemp, Ha Larry, and Ha Moe myself. And the earlier shorts with Ha Curly.
Offline Sarah  
#8 Posted : Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:14:03 PM(UTC)
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In addition to 'shamar', doesn't the Torah also say 'asah' / perform/do in association with 'shamar'?
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