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Offline Hermine Dow  
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:25:29 AM(UTC)
Hermine Dow
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Location: Rochester,NY

ITG-3-2 p. 8-9 What? the resurrection of the body is a myth? What? Was not Yahowsha touchable? did he not eat and drink after his resurrection? Was not the tomb empty? What do you mean?
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:30:22 AM(UTC)
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Yahowsha's body was incinerated on Pesach in keeping with the Pesach instruction that the remains of the lamb be burnt up. When Yahowsha returned on Bikuriym the one thing that was consistent was that no one initially recognized Him. Yes He took on a physical form, and even made that form look like His old body at times, but it was not the same body. We see Him not be recognized at first in every instance, because the body was different, and then when He wants them to know and understand who He is, His body changes to appear as His old body. His old body could not do this. We see Him travel miles in a single instant, His old body could not have done this. We see Him walk through walls, His old body could not have done this. Upon His return He was spirit, and choose at times to manifest physically and could alter how that manifestation was at will. This was not the same body at all.

When we join Yah in His home we will not have bodies, but we will be capable of manifesting physical form when we choose to.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Hermine Dow  
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 11:18:39 AM(UTC)
Hermine Dow
Joined: 4/13/2013(UTC)
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Location: Rochester,NY

incinerated??! this is a new one on me! He was not a burnt offering, was he? Are you saying maybe his body literally descended somehow to a literal hell and was literally burned up? I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one!
Offline Steve in PA  
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:58:08 PM(UTC)
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Hi Hermine...
Let me take a shot at explaining this.
When YHWH's Ruach left Yahowsha' when His body was near dying, His body did die. YHWH cannot die and His soul did not die... it did go to she'ol. He was totally innocent and blameless yet He went there on our behalf. It is through this that He redeemed His family, by paying the penalty for sin for those that are His.
When you look at the original instructions for the Passover lamb... Exodus 12:10 ...and you must not leave any of it until morning; anything left from it until morning you must burn in the fire.
YHWH is consistent... I don't think He consumed the body in the tomb with fire per say but I do think that He used His energy and vaporized the body before the morning. The shroud of Turin may actually be a legitimate artifact left in the cloth when this happened.
After the day of Unleavened Bread when His soul was reunited with the Ruach on Bikuwrym He was in a higher state of manifestation and He was able to move like light energy and materialize at will however and wherever He chose to.
I hope you find this helpful.
Offline James  
#5 Posted : Monday, February 3, 2014 3:10:34 AM(UTC)
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Steve's explanation is exactly what I would have said. His body didn't go to a physical or any other kind of hell, it was burnt up in keeping with Passover.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline InHisName  
#6 Posted : Friday, February 7, 2014 2:37:00 AM(UTC)
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I am having difficulty reconciling the nature of Yahoshaw; there seems to be inconsistencies in what Yada is presenting that I cannot resolve. I would appreciate your help in understanding this, especially any scripture to help prove, disprove, or just add to the discussion.

1. This week on SM, Yada again gave his ocean analogy of the ‘trinity’. The essence of this analogy says that there is only one being = Yahowah = Yahoshaw = Ruach. However Yahoshaw is a created being, a mortal being. How can Yahoshaw be equivalent to Yahowah, but be a non-eternal, mortal being? Is this trinity discussion just a hangover from Christian/pagan life?

It seems to me that Yahoshaw was a created human, just like us, but perhaps with the torah written on his heart, as we are promised in the millennium Sabbath and/or with the ruach with him from birth. Yahoshaw was simply what his ‘job description’ said, a human tool of Yahowah. Essentially he was just like us, but with a perfect knowledge of and relationship with Yahowah. This explains to me how his temptations and fears were possible, he was human. He was not God.

2. The penalty and disposition of sin is what got me questioning Yahoshaw’s nature. Yahoshaw is on the upright pole, at the end the ruach is removed from him and his body dies. What is the disposition of his soul?

The story goes that his soul goes to the Abyss to suffer as the adversary does. Why? If his death is to pay the price for the sins of the covenant family, why the Abyss? Isn’t this reserved for unforgivable sin? Does this mean that unforgivable sin is forgivable? Why would he bear the punishment for unforgivable sin if not to remove the consequence of that sin?

It would make more sense to me if he suffered the penalty that all other sinners would endure, death and destruction of the soul. That of course would raise problems with resurrection and sitting at the right hand and so on.
Offline James  
#7 Posted : Friday, February 7, 2014 6:10:29 AM(UTC)
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IHN wrote:
1. This week on SM, Yada again gave his ocean analogy of the ‘trinity’. The essence of this analogy says that there is only one being = Yahowah = Yahoshaw = Ruach. However Yahoshaw is a created being, a mortal being.How can Yahoshaw be equivalent to Yahowah, but be a non-eternal, mortal being? Is this trinity discussion just a hangover from Christian/pagan life?


In the ocean analogy Yahowsha is not equivalent to Yahowah. They are of the same source, but not the same. Yahowsha is a small part of Yahowah just as the water pulled from the ocean in a bucket is a small part of the ocean. The water pulled in the bucket is then changed into a different form, for a time. The water is frozen for a time, but that does not last and when the water thaws it becomes the same as the ocean again, and then is returned to the whole. Yahowsha was a small part of Yahowah separated from the whole and then changed into a material form, for a time, when that time was up the physical form was destroyed and the part that was separated returned to the whole, the ice melted and the water returned to the ocean. The ice formed from the ocean water is the same in the sense that they are both H2O, but not equivalent in the form or size. I hope this helps.

IHN wrote:
It seems to me that Yahoshaw was a created human, just like us, but perhaps with the torah written on his heart, as we are promised in the millennium Sabbath and/or with the ruach with him from birth. Yahoshaw was simply what his ‘job description’ said, a human tool of Yahowah. Essentially he was just like us, but with a perfect knowledge of and relationship with Yahowah. This explains to me how his temptations and fears were possible, he was human. He was not God.


The way I understand this, is there are 3 parts to Yahowsha, body and soul like all humans, and the third addition that makes him unique, spirit. More accurately I guess would be to say like all humans Yahowsha had a body, soul and neshamah, but his neshamah was pre filled, so to speak, with Yah’s spirit. The mortal body and soul were needed for the spirit to fulfill pesach, matsah and bikuriym. The mortal body and soul were no different than any of ours, aside from its origin not being from a man and a woman.

IHN wrote:
2. The penalty and disposition of sin is what got me questioning Yahoshaw’s nature. Yahoshaw is on the upright pole, at the end the ruach is removed from him and his body dies. What is the disposition of his soul?


Just as his body fulfilled Passover by being the Passover lamb, his soul fulfilled matsah, by descending in to sheowl and enduring the penalty of sin which is separation from Yah. Then on FirstFruits it returned from sheowl to be the first fruit of the harvest of saved souls.

IHN wrote:
The story goes that his soul goes to the Abyss to suffer as the adversary does. Why? If his death is to pay the price for the sins of the covenant family, why the Abyss? Isn’t this reserved for unforgivable sin? Does this mean that unforgivable sin is forgivable? Why would he bear the punishment for unforgivable sin if not to remove the consequence of that sin?


His soul did not descend to the abyss, but to sheowl. Sheowl is where all souls go upon death to await judgment. We read in revelation that after the white throne judgment sheowl itself will be cast into the abyss, so they cannot be equated. Prior to Yahowsha’s fulfillment of Passover there were two parts to sheowl, a place where participants in the covenant went a place where those awaiting judgment went. When First Fruits was fulfilled those who were participants in the covenant asended after him into heaven, while the others still await judgment at the end of the 1,000 years. SO the short answer is that he didn’t go to the abyss, but to sheowl.

IHN wrote:
It would make more sense to me if he suffered the penalty that all other sinners would endure, death and destruction of the soul. That of course would raise problems with resurrection and sitting at the right hand and so on.


There is a penalty and a consequence of sin. The consequence is death, and that is remedied through Pesach. The penalty is separation from Yah, and that is remedied through Matsah. There are two types of separation from Yah conscious and unconscious. Most will die separated from Yah and their souls will be destroyed, they will be unconscious of their separation, but others who have actively engaged in leading souls away from yah will suffer a conscious separation in the abyss. Souls will not be destroyed until they are judged, and when Yahowsha’s soul was judged it was found not guilty, which is how he was able to fulfill First Fruits. His soul could only be destroyed if it had been found guilty.

I hope this helps.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline InHisName  
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 8, 2014 4:06:16 AM(UTC)
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Thanks James,

I think I've got it, but may still have some issues with a few of your details. I need to go look for a couple of answers. I'll be back...
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