You cite verses 6-8, but only quote 8. Verses 6 and 7 answer your question for you.

Pardon the ISR, but it’s easier to copy and paste the whole thing and then comment based on what I find in logos:

Num 12:6 And He said, “Hear now My words: If your prophet is of יהוה, I make Myself known to him in a vision, and I speak to him in a dream.
Num 12:7 “Not so with My servant Mosheh, he is trustworthy in all My house.
Num 12:8 “I speak with him mouth to mouth, and plainly, and not in riddles. And he sees the form of יהוה. So why were you not afraid to speak against My servant Mosheh?”

So he is saying that with Moshe He spoke mouth to mouth, clearly seen and not in riddles. I think it is fair based on the context of the previous two statements to say that He is saying that Moshe was an exception to His normal way of communicating to His prophets which is in word pictures, enigmas, and allegories. So I would say the opposite of your conclusion is what is being conveyed, He mostly speaks in allegory to His prophets.

This is another nail in Paul and Muhammad’s coffins as both claimed to have spoken with Him while awake.

Given the context of the discussion I would not extrapolate it that far out.

What Yahowah is saying is that He has personally engaged, face to face, mouth to mouth talking back and forth with Moshe. He didn't show him a vision to interpret or write down, i.e. Ezekiel's vision of the wheels. With Moshe God sat there and told him write this and then dictated the Towrah to him. So it was not open for Moshe to interrupt what he was seeing or to try to describe it was given word for word to him, he simply scribed what he was told.

To see that allegory and such were used in the Towrah one merely needs to examine the creation account whereby a scientifically accurate description of how the universe and earth came to exist and how they operate is given in such away that an individual of the day could understand it and benefit from while at the same time laying out a prophetic picture of the era of man on Earth. All of the creation account is a riddle to be solved with great insights to be gained from the process of solving it.

^ It's both.
Take for instance God resting on the 7th day - concrete, but yet expounded on in the T/P/P via world picture, allegory, prophetic. Then many others like the 4th day, etc. After examiling ItG, YadaYah and other studies it becomes easy to see.

Here's ISR hits for "riddles" & "riddle"
Psa 78:1 My people, give ear to my Torah1, Incline your ears to the words of my mouth. Footnote: 1In vv. 1-11 the words “teaching, words, witness, commands, covenant,” are used interchangeably, as parallels,almost synonymously. We find the same in Ps. 119.
Psa 78:2 I open my mouth in a parable; I utter riddles of old,
Psa 78:3 Which we have heard and known, For our fathers have related them to us.
Psa 78:4 We do not hide them from their children, Relating to the generation to come the praises of יהוה, And His strength and His wonders which He has done.

Pro 1:1 The proverbs of Shelomoh son of Dawiḏ, sovereign of Yisra’ĕl:
Pro 1:2 For knowing wisdom and discipline, For understanding the words of understanding,
Pro 1:3 For receiving the discipline of wisdom, Righteousness, right-ruling, and straightness;
Pro 1:4 For giving insight to the simple, Knowledge and discretion to the young.
Pro 1:5 The wise one hears and increases learning, And the understanding one gets wise counsel,
Pro 1:6 For understanding a proverb and a figure, The words of the wise and their riddles.
Pro 1:7 The fear of יהוה is the beginning of knowledge1; Fools despise wisdom and discipline. Footnote: 1See 9:10, Ps. 111:10.
Pro 1:8 My son, heed the discipline of your father, And do not forsake the Torah of your mother;
Pro 1:9 For they are a fair wreath on your head, And chains about your neck.

Dan 5:11 “There is a man in your reign in whom is the Spirit of the Set-apart Elah. And in the days of your father, light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the elahin, were found in him. And Sovereign Neḇuḵaḏnetstsar your father, your father the sovereign, made him chief of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and diviners,
Dan 5:12 because an excellent spirit, knowledge and understanding, interpreting dreams, and explaining riddles, and solving difficult problems were found in this Dani’ĕl, whom the sovereign named Bĕlteshatstsar. Now let Dani’ĕl be called, and let him show the interpretation.”
Dan 5:13 So Dani’ĕl was brought in before the sovereign. The sovereign spoke and said to Dani’ĕl, “Are you that Dani’ĕl who is one of the sons of the exile from Yehuḏah, whom my father the sovereign brought from Yehuḏah?
Dan 5:14 “I have heard of you, that the Spirit of Elah is in you, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom are found in you.

Psa 49:1 Hear this, all you peoples; Give ear, all you inhabitants of the world,
Psa 49:2 Both sons of mankind and sons of man, Rich and poor together.
Psa 49:3 My mouth speaks wisdom, And the meditation of my heart brings understanding.
Psa 49:4 I incline my ear to a parable; I expound my riddle on the lyre.

Eze 17:1 And the word of יהוה came to me, saying,
Eze 17:2 “Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable to the house of Yisra’ĕl.
Eze 17:3 “And you shall say, ‘Thus said the Master יהוה, “The great eagle with large wings of long pinions, covered with feathers of various colours, came to Leḇanon and took the top of the cedar.

(About Paul?)
Hab 2:4 “See, he whose being is not upright in him is puffed up. But the righteous one lives by his steadfastness.
Hab 2:5 “And also, because wine betrays him, a man is proud, and he does not stay at home. Because he enlarges his appetite as the grave, and he is like death, and is not satisfied, and gathers to himself all nations and heaps up for himself all peoples.
Hab 2:6 “Shall not all these lift up a proverb against him, and a mocking riddle against him, and say, ‘Woe to him who increases what is not his! Till when is he to load on himself many pledges’?
Hab 2:7 “Do not your creditors rise up suddenly? And those who make you tremble wake up and you be plunder for them?
Hab 2:8 “Because you have plundered many nations, all the remnant of the people shall plunder you, because of men’s blood, and doing violence to the land, to the city, and to all who dwell in it.
Hab 2:9 “Woe to him who is getting evil gain for his house, in order to set his nest on high, to escape the clutches of evil!
Hab 2:10 “You have counselled shame for your house, to cut off many peoples, and your being is sinning.

"Parable"
Mat 13:18 “You, then, hear the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:24 Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens has become like a man who sowed good seed in his field,
Mat 13:31 Another parable He put before them, saying, “The reign of the heavens is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field,

Mat 13:33 Another parable He spoke to them, “The reign of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until all was leavened.”
Mat 13:34 יהושע said all this to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable,
Mat 13:35 so that what was spoken by the prophet might be filled, saying, “I shall open My mouth in parables, I shall pour forth what has been hidden from the foundation of the world.”
Mat 13:36 Then, having sent the crowds away, יהושע went into the house. And His taught ones came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the darnel of the field.”

Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
Mat 15:15 And Kĕpha answering, said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

Mat 21:33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain man, a householder who planted a vineyard and placed a hedge around it, and dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. And he leased it to farmers and went abroad.
Eze 24:2 “Son of man, write down the name of the day, for on this same day the sovereign of Baḇel has thrown himself against Yerushalayim.
Eze 24:3 “And speak a parable to the rebellious house, and you shall say to them, ‘Thus said the Master יהוה, “Put on a pot, put it on, and also pour water into it.

Mat 24:32 “And learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that the summer is near.

If you don’t see allegorical meaning in the creation account then I feel sorry for you, you are missing at least a third of what is being communicated. The greater luminary becoming visible on the third day is exactly this. Or the focus on water on the second day, the rise of secular, man as god, humanism on the 6th day. To me these are clear as day and are riddles and puzzles left by Yah for us to figure out.

As for your second point I would say that based on your extrapolation then there could also be no dreams or visions in the Towrah since Yah had Moshe write it. Ba’reshiyth 37 tells us of Joseph’s dream, Ba’reshith 40 tells us of Pharaoh’s dream and of Joseph interpreting it. So clearly there are dreams in the Towrah, and the Towrah is written by Moshe, so it would therefore stand to reason that what Yahowah was saying in BaMidabar 12 was only related to his method of communicating with Moshe and not the content of His communication.

BaMidabar 12:6-8 is only speaking of the method with which Yahowah used to communicate with Moshe, mouth to mouth, clearly seen and not in riddles, but not the content of what He revealed to Moshe. Yahowah told Moshe word for word what to write, He didn’t appear to him in a dream and show him a vision with which to write down, He sat there and said write this.

Psa 49:1 Hear this, all you peoples; Give ear, all you inhabitants of the world,
Psa 49:2 Both sons of mankind and sons of man, Rich and poor together.
Psa 49:3 My mouth speaks wisdom, And the meditation of my heart brings understanding.
Psa 49:4 I incline my ear to a parable; I expound my riddle on the lyre.


Psa 78:1 My people, give ear to my Torah, Incline your ears to the words of my mouth. .
Psa 78:2 I open my mouth in a parable; I utter riddles of old,
Psa 78:3 Which we have heard and known, For our fathers have related them to us.
Psa 78:4 We do not hide them from their children, Relating to the generation to come the praises of יהוה, And His strength and His wonders which He has done.
Psa 78:5 For He raised a witness in Yaʽaqoḇ, And set a Torah in Yisra’ĕl, Which He commanded our fathers, To teach them to their children;

Yah loves riddles because they force us to spend time in His word with Him. That is why I love them.

I have found that with most everything there is a direct clear understanding and then their is a deeper understanding that expounds upon it. I.E. the creation account represents a direct telling of the creation of the universe, earth and man, but on a deeper level it prophetically lays out in broad strokes the 6,000 year history of man from the fall of Adam to the Millennial Sabbath.

The use of MY people and MY Towrah in the first verse of Psalm 78 puts this in the voice of Yahowah, and no change in speaker being indicated puts the words of Psalm 78 into Yahowah's mouth since it is not the psalmist Towrah, but Yahowah's Towrah.

So if the Psalms are to be viewed as inspired Scripture then Yahowah inspired the psalmist to say that He uses uses parables, proverbs, riddles and allegory.

If two verses seem to contradict each other then either one must be dismissed, or both must be re=evaluated to see if one or the other is being misunderstood. The use of allegory throughout the Towrah combined with the statement from the Psalms makes it clear to me that Yahowah is in noway meaning to say that He does not use allegory, parables, proverbs and riddles in Numbers 12.

JamesH,

I have a question for you. Is your study technique to formulate a question and to see if your hypothesis is correct or do you simply make your way through the Torah and write down questions as you go? The reason why I ask is because sometimes when you ask a question, I wonder if you are trying to prove a hypothesis or if the question struck you. For instance, it seems like you started with the hypothesis: "I don't believe Yahowah speaks in parables."

I wonder if this is driven by a frustration with much of the NT, where Yahowsha' is portrayed as speaking almost exclusively in parable form and maybe a way to continue to distance Yahowah from Yahowsha' is to prove that Yahowah doesn't speak in parables.

I might be off, but that is the sense that I get from your initial post as well as your responses. I know I sometimes do this with Paul. Since I have so much disdain for Paul when someone shows me 1 right thing Paul has said, I usually counter with 10 wrong things Paul has said instead of addressing that fact that 1)Yes, Paul got that right, 2) Yahowah's standard for whether someone is speaking on His behalf isn't in them getting some right, but do they get any wrong. So, even if what 90% of what Paul said is true and accurate, he is still disqualified by Yahowah's standards.

I am truly compassionate in regards to your frustrations regarding Yahowsha'. I myself battle constantly with what is presented in the NT. Even though 20 - 30% of the information regarding Him "sounds" right, I cannot get away from what sounds wrong and my rejection rate for the whole shebang is high.

Now, in your original post you presented a scripture that people have responded to. The concept of "does Yahowah speak in riddles" seems to flow back to your premise of a literal and continual adherence to the instructions in the Torah. For instance, on another thread you mentioned atonement and brought forth the instructions for particular animals to be used. Some would say there is a message in the animals, I think you are saying the atonement comes in the sacrifice, just as Yahowah said. Is that what this debate is about? If so, I think it would be much easier to discuss in a more "straight up" way, where you post your thesis and allow people to respond and discuss from there. This backward walking into the debate is what tends to cause some frustration.

I think this is more than "does God speak in riddle", you have another point to make if the answer is "no, He does not". Let's start from there instead of the set up for a "gotcha" moment.

I can be off in my assessment of the thread and if so, please do come and let me know. I love your debate, you asked questions that really make me think. However, sometimes I am weary in joining a discussion because it sometimes feels like a set-up. It could just be a matter of the way things are framed and I am missing something or reading things into a piece that aren't there.

Since the Psalm starts in the voice of Yahowah, MY People and My Towrah, it is either inspired or the psalmist is usurping God's authority.

And rather it's inspired or not is irrelevant to the overall point. Rather this psalm or any psalm is inspired is irrelevant to rather or not chydah are used in the Towrah. Chydah are riddles, but more accurately it is hard questions, allegory or proverbs.

This is really the same debate we have been having for the better part of a year, here and here does God use Metaphors, and your tactics are the same as they have been, ignore anything that doesn't confirm your conclusion and twist or dismiss the rest. I'm sick of the same old song and dance with you, it has wasted too much of my time already. This is the smae question asked in a different way and acting as thought the evidence already provided doesn't exist. So anyone who wishes to dance with you may I for one will not anymore.

James

You are not dancing with me you are dancing with YHWH,s word vs mans word.

Now I guess I'm sorry, that you can't have a discussion of Gods word without being angry. If some one does not agree with you. Kind of like a metaphor of Christian behavior.

Exactly. I am not angry, just not interested in talking to someone who will not address anything that contradicts their point, but expects me to answer every challenge they have. It reminds me of listening to Yada debate Muslims, I see now why he ceased.

Look at how much time and effort has been expended attempting to reason with this person! Enough already! I formally request you, Moderator James, to ban JamesH from the forum. Let him go play his "I Am the Great Debater" games on Facebook.