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Offline Camille  
#1 Posted : Friday, December 28, 2012 4:07:41 PM(UTC)
Camille
Joined: 11/6/2012(UTC)
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I was reading Yada's translation of the first of the seven instructions (formerly known as the fourth of the ten commandments), and I was surprised to see the defining of Shabbat as a rest from the work of being Yahowah's representative and messenger. I had always conceived of Shabbat as a time to rest from worldly concerns and preoccupations. I am curious how people understand this. Does it mean that we shouldn't teach Yah's word on Shabbat, and should rest from this forum too? If someone provides an intelligent answer to my post, does that mean that the person is representing Yah's word, or being His messenger with an answer? Apart from the office of a true prophet, are we flawed human beings even capable of being His representative or messenger? Should a true prophet rest from prophesying? Does it mean also what I had always understood it to mean: to rest from secular (non-spiritual) activities like watching a movie? Or from ordinary work, like gainful employment or washing the car?

Offline JamesH  
#2 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:56:39 AM(UTC)
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Camille

If you have a Strongs  Hebrew dictionary look up 

# 7673  (shabath)

# 7676 (shabath)

# 7677 (shabbathown)

And

# 7650 ( shaba)

Also read the verses that are listed, this way you can get an idea of what YHWH says the 7 is.

Man has a lot of different views of the 7.   Seek Yah
Offline JamesH  
#3 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:25:08 AM(UTC)
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Also the word work

Strongs # 4399  ( mlakah)
Offline cgb2  
#4 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:48:18 AM(UTC)
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Camille wrote:
I was reading Yada's translation of the first of the seven instructions (formerly known as the fourth of the ten commandments), and I was surprised to see the defining of Shabbat as a rest from the work of being Yahowah's representative and messenger. I had always conceived of Shabbat as a time to rest from worldly concerns and preoccupations. I am curious how people understand this.


Lev 23:3 Six (ses) days (yowmym) the service of the spiritual messenger (mala’kah) shall be performed (‘asah - accomplished), so then (wa) in (ba) the (ha) seventh (shaby’y) day (yowm) will be a Sabbath (shabat - time of rest and reflection), a set-apart (qodesh) called-out assembly (miqra’) for rest and reflection (shabatown). All (kol) service of the heavenly messenger (mala’kah) shall not (lo’) be done (‘asah - performed). It is Yahowah’s Sabbath (shabat - time for rest and reflection) in (ba) all (kol) your (‘atem) dwelling places and throughout time (mosab - wherever and whenever you assemble).

By Yahowah's choice of words in the presentation of Shabat, I see it mostly pointing to Yahowah doing the work thru his implement Yahowsha (heavenly messenger) to save us and to rest in it.
Also it is healthful to take a day of rest and cease from your ordinary labors too. It is interesting that Yahowsha said "Mat 12:8 “For the Son of Aḏam is Master of the Sabbath.”. In the questionable Du-Tillet Hebrew it even has him saying "I am the sabbath".

Camille wrote:
Does it mean that we shouldn't teach Yah's word on Shabbat, and should rest from this forum too?


Act 15:21 “For from ancient generations Mosheh has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”

Mat 23:2 saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on the seat of Mosheh.
Mat 23:3 “Therefore, whatever they say <Mosheh> to you to guard, guard and do. But do not do according to their works <oral law>, for they say, and do not do.
Mat 23:4 “For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders, but with their finger they do not wish to move them.

I note that early on Yahowsha mostly went into the temple on the sabbath. Could this be because the Torah <Mosheh> was being taught and he wouldn't have to endure the disgusting oral laws of the rabbis?

Camille wrote:
If someone provides an intelligent answer to my post, does that mean that the person is representing Yah's word, or being His messenger with an answer? Apart from the office of a true prophet, are we flawed human beings even capable of being His representative or messenger? Should a true prophet rest from prophesying?


There are plenty running around calling themselves prophets, but can't even answer Pro 24:30 correctly, and mostly claim authority from Paul's writings. As previously being involved in the "charismatic movement" I heard plenty that were as vague as any fortune teller and astrologer would give and many would think profound. Even worse many were opposed to Torah as some new dispensation or revelation that overode scripture.
Jeremiah 14:14, Jeremiah 23:16, Deuteronomy 18:9-13

Camille wrote:
Does it mean also what I had always understood it to mean: to rest from secular (non-spiritual) activities like watching a movie? Or from ordinary work, like gainful employment or washing the car?


I'm reluctant to tell one what to do. Aren't there already enough religions? :^)
Heres a list of "sabbath hits" to study around, although for sabbaton I'd put more stock Mat,John,Rev and certainly not Paul:

H7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth
Total KJV Occurrences: 107
sabbath, 73
Exo_16:23, Exo_16:25-26 (2), Exo_16:29, Exo_20:8, Exo_20:10-11 (2), Exo_31:14-16 (5), Exo_35:2-3 (2), Lev_16:31, Lev_23:3 (2), Lev_23:11, Lev_23:15-16 (2), Lev_23:32 (2), Lev_24:8, Lev_25:2, Lev_25:4 (2), Lev_25:6, Num_15:32, Num_28:9-10 (2), Deu_5:12, Deu_5:14-15 (2), 2Ki_4:23, 2Ki_11:5, 2Ki_11:7, 2Ki_11:9 (2), 2Ki_16:18, 1Ch_9:32, 2Ch_23:4, 2Ch_23:8 (2), Neh_9:14, Neh_10:31 (2), Neh_13:15-19 (8), Neh_13:21-22 (2), Isa_56:1-2 (2), Isa_56:6, Isa_58:13 (2), Isa_66:23, Jer_17:21-22 (3), Jer_17:24 (2), Jer_17:27 (2), Eze_46:1, Eze_46:4, Eze_46:12, Amo_8:5
sabbaths, 34
Exo_31:13, Lev_19:3, Lev_19:30, Lev_23:15, Lev_23:38, Lev_25:8 (2), Lev_26:2, Lev_26:34-35 (3), Lev_26:43, 1Ch_23:31, 2Ch_2:4, 2Ch_8:13, 2Ch_31:3, 2Ch_36:21, Neh_10:33, Isa_1:13, Isa_56:4, Lam_2:6, Eze_20:12-13 (2), Eze_20:16, Eze_20:20-21 (2), Eze_20:24, Eze_22:8, Eze_22:26, Eze_23:38, Eze_44:24, Eze_45:17, Eze_46:3, Hos_2:11

G4521
σάββατον
sabbaton
Total KJV Occurrences: 68
sabbath, 59
Mat_12:1-2 (2), Mat_12:5 (2), Mat_12:8, Mat_12:10-12 (3), Mat_24:20, Mat_28:1, Mar_1:21, Mar_2:23-24 (2), Mar_2:27-28 (3), Mar_3:2, Mar_3:4, Mar_6:2, Mar_16:1, Luk_4:16, Luk_4:31, Luk_6:1-2 (2), Luk_6:5-7 (3), Luk_13:9-10 (2), Luk_13:14-16 (4), Luk_14:1, Luk_14:3, Luk_14:5, Luk_23:54, Luk_23:56, Joh_5:9-10 (2), Joh_5:16, Joh_5:18, Joh_7:22-23 (3), Joh_9:14, Joh_9:16, Joh_19:31 (2), Act_1:12, Act_13:14, Act_13:27, Act_13:42, Act_13:44, Act_15:21, Act_16:13, Act_17:2, Act_18:4, Col_2:16
week, 9
Mar_16:1-2 (2), Mar_16:9, Luk_18:12, Joh_20:1 (2), Joh_20:19, Act_20:7, 1Co_16:2

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day Elohim completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.
Gen 2:3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made.
Offline JamesH  
#5 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:18:11 AM(UTC)
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Hi cgb2

I have noticed a difference in the to words Strongs # 4399  ( mlakah) and # 4397 (malak) 

Strongs # 4399  ( mlakah) refers to employment type work.
and 
Strongs #4397  (malak) referring to the angel or messenger of God type work.

Just a side note thought and question, " are there any verses that say what TO do on the 7?"

Also, I don't think any of us fall in the  category of malak
Offline Sarah  
#6 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:48:10 PM(UTC)
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I had the same question as Camille. Is this verse simply saying "you can't work for your salvation; spend the 7th day thinking about this"??

Also, it just occurred to me: Yah "rested on the Seventh Day"; actually, the Seventh Day has not arrived yet! Also, maybe that is why Yahowsha could always 'work' on the Sabbath since He IS the Messenger, and it is not the Seventh Day yet.

Any ideas?

Offline cgb2  
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 3:13:48 AM(UTC)
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Sarah wrote:
I had the same question as Camille. Is this verse simply saying "you can't work for your salvation; spend the 7th day thinking about this"??


Only that's part of it. The reason I'm reluctant to answer is because my understanding and observance of sabbath hasn't remained fixed (started out rigid, now much less so). Please study the passages around the verses posted for yourself. If you find them vague or ambiguous (like other things), consider this:
There is a reason Yah speaks in parables and riddles. If He were to say do 1.2.3.4. rituals then folks would trust in themselves earning favor with Yah (saving themselves)....and really miss the point.

Sarah wrote:
Also, it just occurred to me: Yah "rested on the Seventh Day"; actually, the Seventh Day has not arrived yet! Also, maybe that is why Yahowsha could always 'work' on the Sabbath since He IS the Messenger, and it is not the Seventh Day yet.
Any ideas?


Interesting to ponder about the 7th day has not arrived yet, and possible implications.
From his condemnation of the Pharisees accusing him and his disciples of "working" and "violating" the sabbath, I tend to think he was leading by example of what the sabbath really meant, and pointing out how man had corrupted it.
Offline cgb2  
#8 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 5:35:48 AM(UTC)
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^
<insert heavy sarchasm> If one wishes to have men tell them what to do, then consider the opinions of unauthorized rabbis adding, taking away, and overiding God's Torah with their 13 principles of faith (including "god is incorporeal") and their 613 laws to be obeyed...then consider rabbinical Judaism.
Want to also be saddled with many more rules and regulations from Paul/Shaw'ul's hopelessly conflicting epistles? Then consider Messianic/Hebrew Roots. This allows one to have one foot in judaism and the other in xtianity <end sarchasm>
...but I wouldn't recommend either BigGrin
Offline JamesH  
#9 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:52:27 AM(UTC)
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One thing I have concluded for myself is.

YHWH worked 6days and then rested on the 7day

YHWH instructed us to do the same.

The connotation of the word rest is something good.

So what I choose for rest would be something good and enjoyable, reflect on Yah's work and promise, my oath to the covenant and a day for family. 

If the day of rest is a burden to you then you might be doing something wrong.

Just my personal opinion.    JamesH
Offline Sarah  
#10 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:40:57 AM(UTC)
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I'm not sure you quite understand what I am saying/asking. God created the universe in 6 days; are we in the 6th day right now? If so, the 7th day has not yet started. Is the Millennium the 7th day? If yes, then God will rest on the 7th day, the Millennium; He has not 'rested' yet. Therefore, God is still working; so, Yahowsha could also work on the 7th day Sabbaths during his visit on earth. Since Yahowsha is the Messenger, He alone can even do the 'work'; that is why He could 'work' on the Sabbath Day when we mortals are to 'rest' on the Sabbath Day while we 'watch' the Messenger do His 'work'. Wasn't His 'working' on the Sabbath Day proof that He is The Messenger -- the 'work' of Yahowah?
Just a thought.
Offline cgb2  
#11 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:47:52 AM(UTC)
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^ Great way of putting it JamesH!

Imagine how much less stess, burn out, mental illness, injuries there would be in this world if folks just rested a day.
How much stronger families would be. Yep if it's a burden, you're probably doing it wrong.
Offline cgb2  
#12 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:02:18 AM(UTC)
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Sarah wrote:
I'm not sure you quite understand what I am saying/asking. God created the universe in 6 days; are we in the 6th day right now? If so, the 7th day has not yet started. Is the Millennium the 7th day? If yes, then God will rest on the 7th day, the Millennium; He has not 'rested' yet. Therefore, God is still working; so, Yahowsha could also work on the 7th day Sabbaths during his visit on earth. Since Yahowsha is the Messenger, He alone can even do the 'work'; that is why He could 'work' on the Sabbath Day when we mortals are to 'rest' on the Sabbath Day while we 'watch' the Messenger do His 'work'. Wasn't His 'working' on the Sabbath Day proof that He is The Messenger -- the 'work' of Yahowah?
Just a thought.


Thanks for amplification. Interesting.

As with most of Yah's teachings, when one can find MANY pointers in the T/P/P with no contradictions, then it's truth. If contradiction(s) check for scribal tampering. I little support or contradiction reject it.
Offline Richard  
#13 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:19:12 PM(UTC)
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Sarah wrote:
I'm not sure you quite understand what I am saying/asking. God created the universe in 6 days; are we in the 6th day right now? If so, the 7th day has not yet started. Is the Millennium the 7th day? If yes, then God will rest on the 7th day, the Millennium; He has not 'rested' yet. Therefore, God is still working; so, Yahowsha could also work on the 7th day Sabbaths during his visit on earth. Since Yahowsha is the Messenger, He alone can even do the 'work'; that is why He could 'work' on the Sabbath Day when we mortals are to 'rest' on the Sabbath Day while we 'watch' the Messenger do His 'work'. Wasn't His 'working' on the Sabbath Day proof that He is The Messenger -- the 'work' of Yahowah?
Just a thought.


Yahowsha did not work on the Shabbat. Rather, He did what should have been done, like healing the sick; and He made it clear that the doing of it was not work and so did not violate Yahowah's instructions regarding the seventh day rest. Those illegal, self-appointed wretches known as rabbis were demanding that the people submit to their strict rules about what was and was not allowable on Yahowah's Shabbat. Yahowsha shoved it in their faces.
Offline cgb2  
#14 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 2:17:48 AM(UTC)
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^ and it sure hasn't improved with age Richard. It's funny, but sad, some of the nonsense I've read from these "authorities", like if children should be allowed to play on the sabbath. Well it also talks about our domestic animals resting too...imagine having to tie down your puppy, kitten, lamb or calf to keep them from playing. These same authorities would likely condemn paid Doctors, RNs, CRNs from attending to the sick, changing bedpans on the sabbath and etc. For extreme insanity we bring you the sabbath elevators in Isreal, ones that stop on every floor, so you won't have to "work" by pushing a button.
Offline Camille  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:19:32 AM(UTC)
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Great discussion.

Yada's translation of Sabbath scriptures enriches. Thanks, cgb2, for Sabbath scripture references too--much to explore and ponder.

James H, I agree--well said! I know that when I approach the Sabbath in this way, it feels like something special, like being embraced by the Ruach throughout it, and ending with the feeling of being wonderfully refreshed.

Sarah, interesting point. I wonder if it might it be that the Pharisees did not grasp the subtleties of Yahoshua doing Yah's "work" on the Sabbath in preparing for us the ultimate Seventh Day rest? If we are to get our animal out of a ditch on the Sabbath, maybe He is likening this to the "work" of His delivering us from the "pit" also when Satan brings us his coming hell-on-earth--so that the ultimate Sabbath may indeed be brought in?

If so, it might by implication be that His "called and chosen"--those who hear His voice and are led by His Spirit to do His will--will be "working" on the Sabbath also, prior to His return. Then this leads to the next question: who are His "called and chosen?" The Jews? The army of the Elohim of Hosts? His prophets and apostles who take down Babylon? (Revelation 18:20, 19:2) I raised the question of whether prophets (true prophets, mind you--not the charismatic psychosis--if there are any true prophets on the earth) should rest from prophesying on Shabbat, because in Amos 3:7 Yah says that He will do nothing without them; in Proverbs there is also a scripture--I can't find it at the moment--that says "without revelation, the people perish." I personally believe that prophets will be raised up in our Day and will play a prominent role, and that Yah's true sons and daughters will prophesy.

BTW, the Jewish-founded Beth Israel hospital here in Boston is said to have a couple of elevators pre-programmed prior to the Sabbath to stop on every floor, so that the option is available to those who want it. My understanding has been that it is not about the "work" required to press a button, but the scripture about not kindling a fire on the Sabbath--the electrical spark that you initiate when you press the button being considered fire. Same reason why cooking is forbidden.

What about this? Should we not use a gas stove? Or electric stove? Should we not cook? Some do not even believe in using a microwave oven to heat up the food that they prepared prior to sundown on Friday, and for this reason they prepare only cold foods, like sandwiches. And what about the prospect of finding our Sabbath rest in front of a roaring fire in the fireplace on a cold winter's day?

Fire is a symbol of destruction. Maybe its meaning is merely to refrain from kindling anger?
Offline Sarah  
#16 Posted : Saturday, January 19, 2013 4:44:01 PM(UTC)
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Remember, too, that Yahowsah, Himself, did the most work on the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread . . . Smile, so I am thinking that God has not yet 'rested'; He will rest in the future 'Seventh Day'. I'm still baffled about the meaning of our not doing the 'work of the Messinger' on the Sabbath.

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