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Offline JamesH  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:59:04 AM(UTC)
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As many of you have figured out I have become anti nt
I know think  100% is a lie.

Is anyone here willing to give their estimate of what percent of the nt is a lie?

And which part is Good?
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:25:16 AM(UTC)
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I view the Greek text not as Scripture, but as histories written by man. The only exception being Revelation which belongs with the prophets, though it has been tampered with and we don't have old manuscripts of much of it.

Personally I have not studied a lot in the Greek text, I would rather study Tanakh. But I also don't dismiss it as completely made up.

My question to you would be what do you think happened in 33 C.E. According to Daniel 9 someone was going to arrive 4 days before Pesach in that year, so who do you think it was if not Yahowsha?
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline JamesH  
#3 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:16:01 AM(UTC)
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James wrote:


My question to you would be what do you think happened in 33 C.E. According to Daniel 9 someone was going to arrive 4 days before Pesach in that year, so who do you think it was if not Yahowsha?



Hi James 

I don't see anything that reference to Passover in Daniel 9

What I do see is a problem with the christian math.

Daniel  9 : 2

2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of YHWH through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

70 years

Daniel  9 : 24

24 “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Seventy ( shabuwa, weeks) is   70 years

How do the Christians get 483 year out of 70 shabuwa?
Offline dajstill  
#4 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:41:27 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
Hi James 

I don't see anything that reference to Passover in Daniel 9

What I do see is a problem with the christian math.

Daniel  9 : 2

2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of YHWH through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

70 years

Daniel  9 : 24

24 “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Seventy ( shabuwa, weeks) is   70 years

How do the Christians get 483 year out of 70 shabuwa?


JamesH,

I am going to ask that the debate be more authentic than what you are presenting. You know that no one here is a Christian, thus no one need to argue for or against what Christians think, believe, etc.

However, seventy weeks is not 70 years. 70 * 7 = 490. That isn't "Christian" math, that is the math attributed to almost all of humanity and it would seems Yahowah as well. So, if you would like to debate with people who are independent thinkers that is fine. But, you seem to be claiming individuals here are "Christians" or support the "Christian notion".
Offline cgb2  
#5 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:01:25 AM(UTC)
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I'll ask it again here, since JamesH always dodges answering:

JamesH wrote:
I don't reject the history , psalms and prophets UNLESS they contradict the Torah where Yah's covenant is found.

How is this determined?
english version, amplified, lexicons, doctrinal websites?

For instance in Isaiah 7:14 thread you started with a link to http://thejewishhome.org

Was it just because you found something you agree with, or instead are you affiliated with this rabbi's anti-missionary missionary agenda?

Dajstill is correct we are not christians...nor are we rabbinical or kariate judaism. All are errant, but also with truth so as to be beguiling.
Offline JamesH  
#6 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:04:57 AM(UTC)
JamesH
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dajstill wrote:
JamesH,

I am going to ask that the debate be more authentic than what you are presenting. You know that no one here is a Christian, thus no one need to argue for or against what Christians think, believe, etc.

However, seventy weeks is not 70 years. 70 * 7 = 490. That isn't "Christian" math, that is the math attributed to almost all of humanity and it would seems Yahowah as well. So, if you would like to debate with people who are independent thinkers that is fine. But, you seem to be claiming individuals here are "Christians" or support the "Christian notion".



Hi James

Sorry I was not referring to any one here with the christian comment, it was aimed at the chart that was in my king James bible.

If you celebrated 70 shabuwa how long would that be? 
70 yrs.

Also Daniel starts out In Verse 2 using Years

And all the verses after v24 add up to 70 yrs

So you say,   70 weeks = 70 x 7= 490 weeks
Offline JamesH  
#7 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:13:12 AM(UTC)
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Sorry dajstill I thought it was James that responded, I'm on a iPad today and missed that.
Offline FredSnell  
#8 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:16:51 AM(UTC)
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cgb2 wrote,
"Dajstill is correct we are not christians...nor are we rabbinical or kariate judaism. All are errant, but also with truth so as to be beguiling."...again, this serpent is like religion, "forked tongue." Like Paul, is he a serpent that followed after Yahowsha and His Called Out Assemblies and devoured them like a snake. How does a serpent eat, by devouring whole it's victim.
Offline FredSnell  
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:40:20 AM(UTC)
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Matt.
12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Offline dajstill  
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:53:41 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
Hi James

Sorry I was not referring to any one here with the christian comment, it was aimed at the chart that was in my king James bible.

If you celebrated 70 shabuwa how long would that be? 
70 yrs.

Also Daniel starts out In Verse 2 using Years

And all the verses after v24 add up to 70 yrs

So you say,   70 weeks = 70 x 7= 490 weeks



So, are you saying the Messiah came 70 years after Daniel gave his prophesy?
Offline James  
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:59:02 PM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
I don't see anything that reference to Passover in Daniel 9


The reference comes when you observe the prophecy, do the math and place it into history. The seven weeks and 62 weeks from the time the order to rebuild and restore Jerusalem was given comes out to exactly four days before Passover in 33 C.E.

JamesH wrote:
What I do see is a problem with the christian math.

Daniel 9 : 2

2 in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, understood by the books the number of the years specified by the word of YHWH through Jeremiah the prophet, that He would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

70 years

Daniel 9 : 24

24 “Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Seventy ( shabuwa, weeks) is 70 years

How do the Christians get 483 year out of 70 shabuwa?


If your assessment of this is right then God got it wrong. It took much more than 7 weeks from the giving of the order for Jerusalem to be rebuilt. Verses 25 and 26 say that it would be seven weeks and sixty two weeks, with implication being the city would be rebuilt in the seven weeks, and then after the 62 weeks the anointed manifestation of the message would be cut off. So either God meant something other than weeks, or God got it wrong.

Week is a derived meaning of the word shabuwah, one which fits most instances but not all. Shabuwah’s most literal meaning is period of seven. Hence why in Daniel 10 we read 3 weeks of days, or three shabuwah of yom, or three periods of seven days.

TWOT: שָׁבוַּע (šābûaʿ). A period of seven, a week, the Feast of Weeks. This term occurs twenty times in the OT, always indicating a period of seven. Indeed, the word obviously comes to us from šebaʿ (q.v.) and could literally be translated always as “seven-period.”
In Deut 16:9, šābûʿa represents a period of seven days (literally “seven seven-periods you-shall-number-to-you”). The context in verses 9, 10, and 16 demands the time to be in terms of “days.” No serious expositor has ever argued for “years” here.
It might be noted that in Deut 16:9 in the spelling of the plural, the central vowel letter—the waw–is omitted (šābūʿôt), as it is also at times in the singular (e.g. Gen 29:27, šĕbūaʿ) where in an unpointed text it would then be spelled identically to seven, šebaʿ, in the feminine.
While in Deut 16:9, discussed above, šābūʿa represents a period of seven days, in Dan 9:24,25.26,27 it denotes a period of seven years in each of its appearances in these four verses. This is proven by the context wherein Daniel recognizes that the seventy-year period of captivity is almost over. The land had been fallow for seventy years and thus repaid the Lord the seventy sabbatical years owed to him for the prior seventy periods of seven years (Dan 9:2; Jer 25:12; cf. II Chr 36:21!). Just as Daniel is in prayer concerning this matter, the angel Gabriel appears and informs him that Israel’s restoration will not be complete until she goes through another seventy periods-of-seven, šābûaʿ (Dan 9:24ff)! Note also the apparent reference in Dan 12:11 to half of Daniel’s last seventy (9:27); it is 1290 days, approximately three and a half years. Thus here it means years.

So it is most accurately saying seven periods of seven and sixty two periods of seven.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline JamesH  
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 1:44:22 PM(UTC)
JamesH
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James

7 yrs   And  62 yrs  and 1 yr = 70 yrs

 Daniel 9:2 and Jeremiah = 70 yrs

Read about the rebuilding of the Temple and what Yah did to the children of israel  its all there fulfilled prophecy of Dan 9



Yes dajstill 

A Messiah 

Remember many messiahs ( tools of YHWH, doing the work of YHWH)

The whole story is there 70 yrs later, fulfilled prophecy 


Come on everyone quit trying to make mans word fit Yah's word
It doesn't work


Torah is a path that we must walk. Just seeing the path or knowing about the path does nothing.    We Must Walk, physically 

The Torah is the Only instructions to the only path 

The nt is the wrong path it is contrary to the Torah 

The  7 feasts  where literally fulfilled and all the prophecy that Israel has fulfilled are to remind us to keep Torah and YHWH will return to dwell with us at his tabernacle.

We can't just pick and choose what part of the Torah we want to keep or don't want to keep.

Yah gave us specific instructions in his Torah

Man gave us confusion in the nt. look at how many paths and false ideas come from the nt

There is nothing difficult to keeping the Torah. Yah tells us so. Only man and the nt tells us we can't

You said it incounterhim,     Choose today who we will serve.


Wake Up
Offline dajstill  
#13 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 4:22:12 PM(UTC)
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Sorry JameH you haven't shown me you have studied deep enough or translated well enough on your own to disprove Yahowsha. It takes more than simply berating others. You have also evaded too many direct questions on this and other posts. You need to come much better than what you have given to be remotely effective in your efforts. You can't even list all the resources you are using. You need to go much slower and be much more thorough before I see your tangent as anything more than a brother getting off course. Prove to me with facts the prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled in 70 years. Who was the implement used? What was his name and what did he do?
Offline FredSnell  
#14 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:43:20 PM(UTC)
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A few verses to remind us who our Father is, and why He serves us..

Yow’el /errant Joel-and means,Yahowah is God
2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the Name of YaHoWaH shall be delivered: for in mount Tzion and in Yerushaláyim shall be deliverance, as YaHoWaH hath said, and in the remnant whom YaHoWaH shall call.



Sounds a wee bit different than when you hear their prayers..."to our lord and savior, (in) jesus christ name I pray, amen." I've heard it with the, "in," and without. But still...


Psalms/Mizmor/Songs
118:26 Blessed be he that cometh in the Name of YaHoWaH: we have blessed you out of the house of YaHoWaH.


Tsaphanyahuw / errant Zephaniah– and means, treasure Yahowah
3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the Name of YaHoWaH, to serve him with one consent.

"one consent"...I think what matters is we should recognize His doing for us, and little we have to offer except to observe His Word, that was there from the beginning. Yahowsha taught observance of Torah. That is the perfect love for all.
Offline James  
#15 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 3:02:57 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
James

7 yrs   And  62 yrs  and 1 yr = 70 yrs

 Daniel 9:2 and Jeremiah = 70 yrs

Read about the rebuilding of the Temple and what Yah did to the children of israel  its all there fulfilled prophecy of Dan 9


Earlier you were insistent that it was 7 weeks and 62 weeks, now you are insisting that it is 7 years and 62 years.

How is 7 years seven periods of seven? How is a year a period of 7?

It seems to you any interpretation of this is correct except the one that contradicts your theory that Yahowsha didn't arrive in 33 C.E.

Based on what you have written here and else where I have to conclude that either A. Your understanding of Hebrew is horrible, or B. You have an understanding of it, but are choosing to use that understanding to twist what is written.

And if it was all fulfilled 70 years after the order to rebuild Jerusalem then tell me this, is there no transgression today? Are sins sealed up? Is there everlasting righteousness? Because according to Daniel 9:24 that was to occur at the end of the 70 periods of 7, which you are now saying was 70 years.

Dan 9:24 “Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and for your set-apart city, to put an end to the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover crookedness, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Most Set-apart.

JamesH wrote:
Come on everyone quit trying to make mans word fit Yah's word
It doesn't work


Quite trying to make Yah's word fit your word.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Sheree  
#16 Posted : Saturday, November 3, 2012 8:15:47 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
James

7 yrs   And  62 yrs  and 1 yr = 70 yrs

 Daniel 9:2 and Jeremiah = 70 yrs

Read about the rebuilding of the Temple and what Yah did to the children of israel  its all there fulfilled prophecy of Dan 9



Yes dajstill 

A Messiah 

Remember many messiahs ( tools of YHWH, doing the work of YHWH)

The whole story is there 70 yrs later, fulfilled prophecy 


Come on everyone quit trying to make mans word fit Yah's word
It doesn't work


Torah is a path that we must walk. Just seeing the path or knowing about the path does nothing.    We Must Walk, physically 

The Torah is the Only instructions to the only path 

The nt is the wrong path it is contrary to the Torah 

The  7 feasts  where literally fulfilled and all the prophecy that Israel has fulfilled are to remind us to keep Torah and YHWH will return to dwell with us at his tabernacle.

We can't just pick and choose what part of the Torah we want to keep or don't want to keep.

Yah gave us specific instructions in his Torah

Man gave us confusion in the nt. look at how many paths and false ideas come from the nt

There is nothing difficult to keeping the Torah. Yah tells us so. Only man and the nt tells us we can't

You said it incounterhim,     Choose today who we will serve.


Wake Up

if the seven feasts were already fulfilled then why isnt Yahowah siting on his throne in Jerusalem right now?
Offline MadDog  
#17 Posted : Saturday, November 3, 2012 9:52:53 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
Torah is a path that we must walk. Just seeing the path or knowing about the path does nothing.    We Must Walk, physically


That must mean we are all on the wrong continent.

We all should be in Israel and in Yahrusalem.

Yahowah didn't bring the Isralists out of Egypt and into Texas or Nebraska.

He led them into Israel. LITERALLY.

Or maybe there's something more to the words in the Torah, literally.
Offline James  
#18 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 7:33:00 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
Torah is a path that we must walk.


I couldn't help but point this out after seeing this again, but unless the Torah is a literal path (trail or beaten/trodden way) which one can literally walk (moment made by putting one foot in front of the other), the you have just used a metaphor, one which comes up frequently throughout Scripture.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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