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Offline dajstill  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:42:47 AM(UTC)
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Anyone have the translation for this? I have "heard" that 10:9 should read the Nimrod was a mighty hunter "against" God, but it is translated almost "for", "before" or even that God saw him as a mighty hunter.

I have looked through the archives and couldn't find it. Genesis 10 also isn't translated in the scriptures only verses I downloaded. I am still trying to figure out Logos on my kindle, so if anyone has this verse handy that would be great.
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Offline needhelp  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:43:24 AM(UTC)
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Offline James  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:01:38 AM(UTC)
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My rendering was

Originally Posted by: Ba' Go to Quoted Post
9He existed as (hayah) a mighty (gabbar – mighty and powerful one, valiant soldier, prominent one of community standing, hero, a mighty king or despot) hunter (tsayid – one who hunts wild prey) toward the face (paneh - presence) of Yahowah, therefore it is said (`amar - spoke with a focus on the content to follow; thought, intended, commanded, and promised), ‘Just as Nimrod (Nimrod –Rebel, to be rebellious, valiant, strong, he that rules) the mighty (gabbar – mighty and powerful one, valiant soldier, prominent one of community standing, hero, a mighty king or despot) hunter (tsayid – one who hunts wild prey) toward the face (paneh - presence) of Yahowah.’ 10And the beginning of (re'shith - the start of and the initiation of something) his kingdom (mamlakah – his empire, realm, the area or people ruled by him, his reign, royal power, and kingship) existed as (hayah): Babel (babel – confusion, region East Mediterranean empire and its capital city, also called Babylon), and Erech (erek – length, long, an early Babylonian city, North of Ur and South of Baghdad) and Accad (akkad – fortress, North Babylonian city) and Calneh (kalneh – fortified dwelling, city located in Mesopotamia), in the land of (erets – earth, and ground) Shinar (shinar - Tooth of the city, change of city, casting out, scattering all manner of ways, area latter known as Babylon).


The word your question concerns is la'paneh a compound of la' and paneh. la' can convey many different things: to, toward, concerning, on behalf of, so that, in order to, for, etc. and paneh most literally means face, but often carries the connotation of being in someones presences or in front of them.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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Offline dajstill  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:19:06 AM(UTC)
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Need help - THANKS so much for the link - I didn't have James' version!

James - thanks for putting that up! I have to say that it is kind of hard to automatically translate "towards the face" in a negative light because I still have christian translations in running around my head where it was rendered things such as "before" and even "for". I am seeing just how closely I have to study every chapter of scripture. I can't just "read" it, I have to study it deeply.

Thanks so much for the meanings of names and places. Knowing what Nimrod means and understanding that Shinar became Babylon helps a ton with understanding the context.

Thanks again! I have to look closer at the downloads, thought I had downloaded everything but apparently not!!
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Offline pilgrimhere  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2012 4:41:11 AM(UTC)
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Could this possibly be interpreted that Nimrod was a powerful or aggressive hunter in the direction of Yahowah such that he was aspiring to be like Yahowah? ... or something to that effect?
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Offline FredSnell  
#6 Posted : Thursday, August 9, 2012 9:48:46 AM(UTC)
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In

BaRe'syth/Genesis 1:28

28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'


How can we interpret this?

re·plen·ish/riˈpleniSH/

Verb:
1.Fill (something) up again.
2.Restore (a stock or supply of something) to the former level or condition.
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Offline JamesH  
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 9, 2012 10:17:23 AM(UTC)
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Strongs Heb. dict. #4390
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Offline FredSnell  
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 9, 2012 10:29:01 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
Strongs Heb. dict. #4390


http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/4390.html

Are our english translations so far off that nothing is trustworthy? Replenish in common vernacular would mean to fill back up, again. How would anyone interpret this before they had, Strongs? Just doesn't make any sense to me to use that word when, "fill" should have been used.
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Offline JamesH  
#9 Posted : Thursday, August 9, 2012 12:04:44 PM(UTC)
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This could be part of the English translation problem http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible2.html
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Offline James  
#10 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 3:05:22 AM(UTC)
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The Hebrew word used in 1:28 is male' and it simply mean to fill, not refill. It has other meanings, but none that fit this context. Just a brief through the Lexicons and Dictionaries, and I am not seeing refill listed as a rendering in any of them.

male' is all about filling, or fulfillment. It refers to being satisfied, complete, or even to the finishing of a period of time. But nothing in the word that I can see allows for refill at all.

What translation is that?
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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Offline JamesH  
#11 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 4:45:38 AM(UTC)
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Hi James,
If the question (What translation is that?) is for me.

This is picture of the Title Page of the 1611 King James Bible edited by Sir Frances Bacon.

http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible2.html
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Offline FredSnell  
#12 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 5:00:53 AM(UTC)
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James wrote:
The Hebrew word used in 1:28 is male' and it simply mean to fill, not refill. It has other meanings, but none that fit this context. Just a brief through the Lexicons and Dictionaries, and I am not seeing refill listed as a rendering in any of them.

male' is all about filling, or fulfillment. It refers to being satisfied, complete, or even to the finishing of a period of time. But nothing in the word that I can see allows for refill at all.

What translation is that?



I guess I'm not relating my question well enough, sorry. What I want to know is, before there was any lexicons or concordance for ppl to use, what would any of those reading Genesis think when all they would read, "replenish." Any time any one of us see, "re" before a word, it would mean, do again.

I see many bibles replete with the exact same word. So why would the ones putting together the Word of God use this word, when to us, who have the luxury of these lexicons, now can see that it doesn't mean this, refill? Was this word a deception on purpose?
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Offline FredSnell  
#13 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 5:03:59 AM(UTC)
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JamesH wrote:
Hi James,
If the question (What translation is that?) is for me.

This is picture of the Title Page of the 1611 King James Bible edited by Sir Frances Bacon.

http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible2.html


I went on a search after looking at that picture of the 1611 version and there are other pictures that are down right scary looking when closely examined.
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Offline James  
#14 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 6:24:30 AM(UTC)
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encounterHim wrote:
I guess I'm not relating my question well enough, sorry. What I want to know is, before there was any lexicons or concordance for ppl to use, what would any of those reading Genesis think when all they would read, "replenish." Any time any one of us see, "re" before a word, it would mean, do again.

I see many bibles replete with the exact same word. So why would the ones putting together the Word of God use this word, when to us, who have the luxury of these lexicons, now can see that it doesn't mean this, refill? Was this word a deception on purpose?


I have no idea why the translators would use such a ridiculous miss-translation. Without spending a lot of time digging into it I can think of several possible reasons it was miss-translated.

1) It was likely translated from a Greek translation, so the Greek translation may have mistranslated it.
2) The Greek translation can mean both and the translators opted for RE.
3) They sought to make the word of God look unreliable thus necessitate a clergy to interpret it for us.

There are probably other reasons, but the fact is we can't really know why they opted for such an erroneous rendering, all we can do is attempt to correct their errors and use them to show others why we shouldn't trust them.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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Offline JamesH  
#15 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 8:03:35 AM(UTC)
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If you have “The Believer’s Study Bible, New King James Version, Thomas Nelson Publishers.”

Go to the very first page of Luke in the Author section.

What I found interesting and did a study on are the guys mentioned in the text.
Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, Eusebius, and Jerome.

Also the Muratorian Canon.

These guys had a lot to do with the “new testament”
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Offline JamesH  
#16 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 9:47:52 AM(UTC)
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encounterHim wrote:
I went on a search after looking at that picture of the 1611 version and there are other pictures that are down right scary looking when closely examined.



Did anyone notice whose name is in the oval at the top of the pictures?

http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/...tion-title-page-1611.jpg
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Offline Richard  
#17 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:53:24 AM(UTC)
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encounterHim wrote:
I guess I'm not relating my question well enough, sorry. What I want to know is, before there was any lexicons or concordance for ppl to use, what would any of those reading Genesis think when all they would read, "replenish." Any time any one of us see, "re" before a word, it would mean, do again.

I see many bibles replete with the exact same word. So why would the ones putting together the Word of God use this word, when to us, who have the luxury of these lexicons, now can see that it doesn't mean this, refill? Was this word a deception on purpose?


I have always thought that since Baresyth 1:2 reads, in part, "And the earth became void," - since the Hebrew word can be translated as "was" or "became" - that the "Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth" was simply Yahowah's way of repopulating that which had come to be destroyed somehow. The somehow was explained to me as having occurred when ha satan was thrown down to the earth.

Is all that speculation and conjecture and myth? Maybe. But it's one explanation.
Richard
http://www.blessyahowah.com/index.html
http://www.blessyahowah.com/sm/sm.html
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Offline Geraldinehenry  
#18 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2012 7:27:39 PM(UTC)
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dajstill wrote:
Need help - THANKS so much for the link - I didn't have James' version!

James - thanks for putting that up! I have to say that it is kind of hard to automatically translate "towards the face" in a negative light because I still have christian translations in running around my head where it was rendered things such as "before" and even "for". I am seeing just how closely I have to study every chapter of scripture. I can't just "read" it, I have to study it deeply.

Thanks so much for the meanings of names and places. Knowing what Nimrod means and understanding that Shinar became Babylon helps a ton with understanding the context.

Thanks again! I have to look closer at the downloads, thought I had downloaded everything but apparently not!!

yes, of couse
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