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Offline catherder  
#1 Posted : Monday, May 28, 2012 9:33:47 AM(UTC)
catherder
Joined: 3/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: in the mountains of Oregon

Paul’s usage of the Greek word for body is “soma.” “Soma” is not something external to a man himself, something he has, it is what he is. Indeed, “soma” is the nearest equivalent to our word personality. To believe in the resurrection of the “soma,” means to believe that my human self, the human being that “I” am, will be restored to life again. I will not be someone different from who I am now, but I will be exclusively myself. God has committed himself to preserving my individuality, personality, and character. The term body “soma” is simply a synonym for “person.” The goal of God’s redemption is not the destruction of his first creation, but its restoration to its original perfection. This is why the Scripture speaks of the resurrection of the body “soma” rather than of the creation of new beings. Both death and resurrection affect the total person “soma.” The resurrected persons “soma” will be the same individuals as those who existed previously on earth.
Being created in the image of God means that we must view ourselves as intrinsically valuable and richly invested with meaning, potentially and responsibilities. We are to be and to do on a finite scale, what God is and does on an infinite scale. By virtue of being created in the image of God, human beings are capable of reflecting his character in their own life; animals possess none of these qualities. What distinguishes people from animals is the fact that human nature inherently has godlike possibilities. Omniscience omnipotence, or omnipresence, none of these other divine attributes have been ascribed to man as part of the image of God. We have been created to reflect God in our thinking and actions, but the physical sustained by God and dependent upon him for our existence in this world and in the world to come. Developing a godly character in this present life, this will be our personal identity in the world to come. It is the character or personality that we have developed in this life, that God preserves in his memory.
Breath of life and the living soul; man’s soul is in his blood and indeed his blood is his soul. He is kept in being [alive] as a living soul by the inhalation of oxygen out of the air. Man’s soul depends on this intake of oxygen and the blood, but the cessation of breathing results in the death of the soul, because the blood, which is equated with the soul, no longer receives the oxygen that is so vital for life. Breathing is seen as a manifestation of the sustaining power of God. Man became a living soul does not mean that at creation his body was endowed with an immortal soul, a separate entity, distinct from the body. Rather, it means that as a result of the divine inbreathing of the “breath of life” into the lifeless body, man became a living, breathing being. The heart began to beat, the blood to circulate, the brain to think, and all the vital signs of life were activated. A living soul means a living being. Not through the implantation of an immaterial, immortal soul into his material, mortal body, but through the animating principle of life “breath of life” conferred on him by God himself.
In the Old Testament, the word “sheol” is the underground depository of the dead. There are no immaterial, immortal souls in sheol, simply because the soul does not survive the death of the body. Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. The concept of an infernal ‘hell’ developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period. The condition of the dead in sheol, the realm of the dead, is one of unconsciousness, inactivity, a rest or sleep that will continue until they are resurrected. The prospect that one day a vast number of people will be consigned to the everlasting torment of hell is most disturbing. Traditionalists read “eternal punishment” as “eternal punishing.” When the adjective “aionios” meaning eternal or everlasting, is used in the Greek with nouns of action, it has reference to the result of the action, not the process. The wicked will not be passing through a process of punishment forever, but will be punished once and for all with eternal results. The destruction of the wicked is eternal “aionios,” not because the process of destruction continues forever, but because the results are permanent. “Eternal” often refers to the permanence of the result, rather than the continuation of a process. It is evident that the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is eternal, not because of its duration, but because of its permanent results.
“And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire” (Jude 23a). The fire to which Jude refers is obviously the same kind of fire that consumed Sodom and Gomorrah. It is evident that the fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is eternal, not because of its duration, but because of its permanent results. It is important to note that the Greek word “aionios” literally means “lasting for an age.” Roman emperors being described as “aionios”; what is meant is that they held their office for life. Unfortunately, the English words “eternal” or “everlasting” do not accurately render the meaning of “aionios”, which literally means “age-lasting.” The notion of the eternal torment of the wicked can only be defended by accepting the Greek view of the immortality and indestructibility of the soul, a concept which is foreign to Scripture. Everlasting torture is intolerable from a moral point of view, because it pictures God acting like a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies, whom he does not even allow to die. Consider the moral implications of the traditional view of hell, which depicts God as a cruel torturer who torments the wicked throughout all eternity. The thought of such a torment being deliberately inflicted by divine decree, is totally incompatible with the idea of God as infinite love.
Many Christians will be sorely disappointed to discover that their beliefs in the afterlife are a delusion. When this happens, it will cause personal crisis to Christians accustom to believing that at death their souls break loose from their bodies and continue to exist either in Heaven or in the torment of Hell. Redemption is the restoration of the whole person, and not the salvation of the soul apart from the body. If at death the soul of the believer goes up immediately to Heaven to be with Jesus, one hardly can have any real sense of expectation for Jesus to come down to raise the dead believers that were in Jesus, and transform the living believers that are in Jesus. Traditionally, evangelical and other religious persuasions teach, that at the resurrection, their material bodies are reunited with their souls, thus intensifying the pleasure of Heaven or the pain of Hell. Why are evangelicals so adamant in refusing to reconsider the Biblical teachings on the restoration of the whole person? To abandon souls being reunited with their bodies, also entails abandoning a whole cluster of doctrines resulting form it. The total impact of dividing humans into body and soul has promoted all sorts of false dichotomies in Scripture. To be an “Evangelical” means to uphold certain fundamental traditional doctrines without questioning. Any one who dares to question the Biblical validity of a traditional doctrine can become suspect as a “heretic.” It is impossible to estimate the far-reaching impact that the doctrine of unending hellfire has had throughout the centuries in justifying religious intolerance, torture, and the burning of “heretics.” The rationale is simple: If God is going to burn heretics in Hell for all eternity, why shouldn’t the church burn them to death now?
Offline FredSnell  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:30:21 AM(UTC)
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Chatty catty imparts his wisdom upon you all from the caves of Oregon....Her's a suggestion Catherdar, read the book!
Offline Molly  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:31:10 AM(UTC)
Molly
Joined: 12/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Alabama

Very good catherder!!!!

You have it exactly correct! If the book that encounterHim is suggesting says otherwise, then I'd avoid the book.

When we die we become nonexistent in every way shape and form. Many people simply cannot grasp the idea that they will simply not be. It scares many people more than being tortured forever. The first lie by Satan was: "You positively will not die." But they will. And noone has escaped yet. Not even Yahshua. The old testament writers gave no suggestion that they would go to heaven. Their hope was to be resurrected right back here on earth.

Molly
Offline FredSnell  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2012 11:55:23 AM(UTC)
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Molly wrote:
Very good catherder!!!!

You have it exactly correct! If the book that encounterHim is suggesting says otherwise, then I'd avoid the book.

When we die we become nonexistent in every way shape and form. Many people simply cannot grasp the idea that they will simply not be. It scares many people more than being tortured forever. The first lie by Satan was: "You positively will not die." But they will. And noone has escaped yet. Not even Yahshua. The old testament writers gave no suggestion that they would go to heaven. Their hope was to be resurrected right back here on earth.

Molly


Hi Molly. Not that I don't know the "body dies", I know for a fact it does. It's Catherder himself, his popping in and out on the forum with names that most here reject thats the problem. He hasn't read a thing put forward from the YY site, or ITG. He comes here off and on with his book he keeps promoting here. He leads away by using such names and I get tierd of it. He's been here before and almost copy and pasted an entire book to the form with no introduction or one word about how he came across, YY, and how he walked away from babylon. He's certainly more than welcome I say, but read the book first, and then lets reason.
Offline Molly  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:11:44 PM(UTC)
Molly
Joined: 12/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Alabama

Hi encounterHim-

It's not that the body dies, the soul itself dies. It's non-existence. Very simply, the soul that sins (that's all of us) dies.

Molly
Offline FredSnell  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:22:42 PM(UTC)
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Molly wrote:
Hi encounterHim-

It's not that the body dies, the soul itself dies. It's non-existence. Very simply, the soul that sins (that's all of us) dies.

Molly


May I ask you if you have read, or in the process of reading, YadaYah.com? And the only reason I ask is b/c, I think the word for all of us that have breath and continue alive b/c of it, is nephesh (soul) in hebrew. Anyone of us, from the smallest to the largest of us has this. So when we die our breath is dead also. This is our connection to the animal kingdom I believe and why God/Yah shows us Adam naming every animal on earth. And thus to breath we become our surroundings/atmosphere and tied to all living animals, but in that it doesn't diminish the fact that we have a special relationship (nesamah) with Yah at all. This nesamah is what we should exercise and learn to use properly and in that we grow spiritually by making right rulings. When anything named by Adam dies, his breath dies too...aka (soul). Adam/man, was named by Yahowah, though.


BaRe'syth/Genesis 7:15

And they went into the ark with Noah, two and two of all flesh in which there were the breath and spirit of life. 16 And they that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded [Noah]; and Yah shut him in and closed [the door] round about him.


Mashal/Proverbs 20:27-30

The spirit of man [that factor in human personality which proceeds immediately from God] is the lamp of Yahowah, searching all his innermost parts. 28 Loving-kindness and mercy, truth and faithfulness, preserve the king, and his throne is upheld by [the people's] loyalty.29 The glory of young men is their strength, and the beauty of old men is their gray head [suggesting wisdom and experience]. 30 Blows that wound cleanse away evil, and strokes [for correction] reach to the innermost parts.
Offline Richard  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:02:40 PM(UTC)
Richard
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encounterHim -

If someone cannot see from the get-go that CatHerder is a loud-mouth with nothing worthwhile to say (imo), why do you waste your time arguing with them, bro? Especially if they think that anything he says is "exactly right." Yah preserve us! Where do these people come from?!
Offline Molly  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:16:11 AM(UTC)
Molly
Joined: 12/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: Alabama

Hello encounterHim-

Yes, I have read quite a bit of Yada Yahweh. The author makes some very good points, but at other times he goes off course in his conclusions. That is inevitable in such a massive work as he has undertaken. It isn't reasonable to think that all will agree with everything he has to say. So, I disagree on many points, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect and value his efforts.

In this particular case, I don't agree that there are 3 possible end results of life. So far there has only been one: that of non-existence. There is no hell fire. And maybe some will go to heaven. More and more I am coming to the conclusion that kingdome rule will be right here on earth, as will be all mankind.

Molly
Offline FredSnell  
#9 Posted : Friday, June 1, 2012 2:49:04 AM(UTC)
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Hi Molly.
I agree with you on the authors work. He is dilligent in his quest, but he reminds us he's not always right, but who is? We all remember at times we thought, this or that, only to have that thought shattered. Heck, it's why most of us are here. We had our christian "belief" removed and were searching for a more deffinative answer to it all.

I'm not that far removed from your thoughts in this subject. We all read Gods Word from His Towrah and learn He has a love for His place, land, erets.

BaRe'syth/Genesis 15:7-8
7 And He said to him, I am God/YHWH, Who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees to give you this land as an inheritance. 8 But he [Abram] said, Yah/God, by what shall I know that I shall inherit it?

Shemowth/Exodus 32:13
13 [Earnestly] remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self and said to them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens, and [all this land] that I have spoken of will I give to your seed, and they shall inherit it [forever.]

Dabarym/Deuteronomy 1:38
38 But Joshua son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter there. Encourage him, for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.

Dabarym/Deuteronomy 16:20
20 Follow what is altogether just (uncompromisingly righteous), that you may live and inherit the land which your God gives you.

Tehilim/Psalms 37:20
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of Yahowah shall be as the fat of lambs [that is consumed in smoke] and as the glory of the pastures. They shall vanish; like smoke shall they consume away.

Matityahu/Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed (happy, blithesome, joyous, 5 spiritually prosperous-- 6 with life-joy and satisfaction in Yah's favor and salvation, regardless of their outward conditions) are the meek (the mild, patient, long-suffering), for they shall inherit the earth!


I suppose your concern might be if there will be a, fulfillment of the Miqra' of Taruwah?

Matityahu/Matthew 24: 40-44
40 At that time two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken and one will be left. 42 Watch therefore [ 1 give strict attention, be cautious and active], for you do not know in what kind of a day [ 2 whether a near or remote one] your God/Yah is coming. 43 But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a 3 night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be 4 undermined and broken into. 44 You also must be ready therefore, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.

I believe when we view Yahowsha after He was lifted onto the upright pole, we view His return in a new body so as to show us that those that sought Him and knocked, will be lifted from this place at a time of His choosing.

Qara'/Leviticus 23: 23-25
23 And the Yahowah said to Moses, 24 Say to the Israelites, On the first day of the seventh month [almost October], you shall observe a day of solemn [sabbatical] rest, a memorial day announced by blowing of trumpets, a set-apart assembly. 25 You shall do no servile work on it, but you shall present an offering made by fire to Yah.

Revelations 3: 10, 11
10 Because you have guarded and kept My word of patient endurance [have held fast the lesson of My patience with the expectant endurance that I give you], I also will keep you [safe] from the hour of trial (testing) which is coming on the whole world to try those who dwell upon the earth. 11 I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one may rob you and deprive you of your crown.

Sorry, "Lord" slipped in a couple of times and had to edit out. After viewing all, the Ba'al's, I hate letting it slip in like that so I remove it and put Gods Name in place of it. It reminds me of a snake slipping into a garden that you don't notice until it's too late. Nobody wants a "snake" in their garden.
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