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Offline shalom82  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:07:21 AM(UTC)
shalom82
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Shalom Qodeshim,
I put a similar post on the fellowship page of the Forums, but I guess it really belongs here. As a way to grow together and draw strength from each other, I thought we could post on how we are walking in the ways of the Torah. We can discuss how we try to live up to the spirit of the the Torah and practical matters of observance and such. From my own experience Torah is nothing but a joy and a gift, and I pray that all believers who say they are in the way would wake up to the great glory of Torah. Those who say it is a burden and that we are free from it obviously have never tried to walk one day immersed in the Torah. It's like saying, ''YES!!! I am free of my plump pretty good cookin' wife and my big barn!''...haha. And as we all know here at YY, the Messiah is everywhere in the Torah...as he should be considering he is the Torah.

I have been wearing tzit tzit for about six months now. Is there anyone else who is wearing them? Experiences?

I have been eating Kosher for the same about of time. I do not concern myself with rabbinic Kosher standards, because often they are wrong. It's obvious that Papa Abraham served Yahuweh (as elohim) Beef and some kind of cheese or yogurt together(curds I believe) together. I tell you I can't even look at pork products now without being physically revolted. I am not lying, I really think if I were to eat pork I would get sick. That goes for shellfish too.

It's clear that eating Kosher is a benefit to our health but I think that there is a very viable spiritual component. We are now the spirit enshrouded temples of Yahuweh, each and every one of us who trust and rely on him. If we are his temples, his tabernacles....we should act accordingly. If the Temple were standing in Yerushalayim, would we go there and kill a pig and drag it's bloody or even cooked carcus through the sanctuary? Would we even get near the place with a pig or a lobster? That's just my opinion on the matter...

I hope to get some great ideas and inspiration on this topic. I got the ball rolling and I hope others will share.

Please do not think I am holding Torah observance over anybody. For one thing I don't have to, and I don't think it's a simple issue of the more mitzvot you do the more righteous you are. Not at all, I try to observe Torah knowing that I am far from righteous on my own account. So having said that, come on write me will ya?

Edited by user Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:05:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Icy  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:44:04 AM(UTC)
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Ever since I read TOM, I have tried to observe the Torah as well as possible. The only things I have done is to observe the Miqra (though this is more of just being aware of them and acknowledging them than performing any sort of scriptural ritual or anything) and eating Kosher, as you put it. When I think "Kosher" though, I think of the errent rabbinical kosher standards. I would rather just say that I am eating scripturally. I can't say I am revolted by pork though. There are times when I think, "I would love to have some pork bacon with my eggs..." or would really like to try some smoked pork chops on my new grill/smoker. But, I don't.
Offline shalom82  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:49:04 AM(UTC)
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Icy,
you know what, after I wrote this I realized that I have been eating scriptually (as you so elegantly put it) for actually close to 9 months. And there was a time when I did miss pork. Especially because of the fact that I lived in China for three years and I just got back home this summer. In China they have sooo many delicious ways to cook pork that you just don't see in the Chinese restaurants in America. In Shaanxi province, where I was they have this province famous snack that in English could be called a pork pancake. It's actually more like a sandwich, but anyway it has this slow cooked pork that is so tender and juicy and my wife and I always loved to get them from the many little foodstands that are in abundance everywhere in China. At first I missed them terribly. I would go past them and smell the aroma and think to myself mmmmm aaaahhhh ooooooh, but then I noticed that within 3 months of being on Yahuweh's Torah Diet Plan, The smell of those once delicious pork pancakes was becoming nauseating. Perhaps that feeling of longing will pass for you too. My friend has told me (2nd hand info so take it for what it's worth) that he read somewhere that if you stop eating pork for a certain amount of time and then you resume eating it that it will indeed make you physically sick.

Here is something of interest. It seems like somehow the old knowledge is sometimes passed along. My Father told me that my Great Grandmother absolutely refused to eat pork. She said it caused arthritis. This would be in line with trichinosis that if I can remember right can manifest itself as severe arthritis.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:39:15 PM(UTC)
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I just wanted to mention about wearing tassels. I have worn them for about six months. I tied mine myself and got down to wearing them. I have always been a person who has cared too much about what other people think. My mom said that I am the kind of person that thinks the football team is talking about me when they get in the huddle. So it was very unnerving at first. At a certain point I just decided this is what Yahuweh told the people of Israel to do. Yahuweh has been so generous as to graft me into his set apart people that I realized I was missing out on a great gift. As I said in my other post about Torah, I never gave the cross that WAS around my neck a second thought. We all have seen the rappers, and the singers, and various other slime and scum wearing the cross. The cross has almost become synonomous with the word BLING. Make it gawdier, shinier, and bigger....And that's all there is to it. You all know what I am talking about. People are always talking about we have to make the cross holy again, we have to make Christmas holy again...Easter...holy again....without realizing they were always contemptible and never Qodesh in the eyes of Yahuweh. I always wondered at the absense of set apartness in these things even when I was a young child. It is truly a joy to me to realize my conclusions and questions were backed up by the creator of the Universe. I believe that he has already set about making these Christian Staples so disgusting and so contemptible...that true believers will have no other choice but to grow up and embrace his Miqra and his ways. I am sorry, I got a little sidetracked. As I was saying about the tzit tzit, the tzit tzit have stopped me from losing my cool and doing regrettable things more times than I can count since I have started wearing them. I am sure that I have internalized the living Torah and that is the main reason that I have changed so much since being truly born anew from above....but that little nudge that the tzit tzit give me to walk this earth imitating my Rabbi surely doesn't hurt. I can tell you this wearing of the tassels is easier said than done. But in the end I have no other choice than to believe that this was at the quiet moving of the spirit. It helped me get over myself so that I could truly grow and become a more complete child of Yahuweh.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:52:28 PM(UTC)
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I believe it was Yada that said that the only visible symbol that we should revere is the word. Which is the only rational conclusion you can come to.

I have to be honest, for all of the things that the rabbinic jews do wrong and how they have defamed Yahushua...calling him Yeshu...and proclaiming the hope that his memory be wiped out, there is something comforting about Yahuweh's people revering the word the way they do. I know that some maybe even many feign it because religious reverence is expected. But there will be a completed remnant someday soon that will sincerely and spontaneously revere Yah's word. When I see Torah scrolls I am comforted and energized at the same time. Oh the how the promises abound in those set apart words. Yahuweh keeps his promises.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 12:56:48 PM(UTC)
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I am sorry...I keep on posting and posting...people will think that I am an egomaniac, but I always come up with more I want to say. Please do not think that I only revere the first five books. I think that All scripture is Torah....From Beth-Reshith to Revelation. I Know that Torah scrolls are not complete, but I look forward to a day when all synagogues...all houses of meeting will have COMPLETE Torah scrolls
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Jeannie  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 4:58:43 PM(UTC)
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shalom82, how do you actually wear the tzit tzit since we don't wear tunics.
Offline shalom82  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:54:22 PM(UTC)
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Jeannie,
I had an undergarment made for me by a tailor that the tzit tzit can attach to. And I have seen people attach them to their belt loops. From what I understand from the original Hebrew, the four corners is not so much literal as it is figurative....sort of how we say the four corners of the earth. When you wear the tassels correctly they should be visible to passers by from all directions. Not only were and are the Israelites supposed to wear the tzit tzit, they are supposed to look upon other's tzit tzit as a constant reminder of Yahuweh's promises and his expectations. There really isn't much said regarding restrictions to tassels in the scriptures. Of course the Yahudim still wear them but the orthodox community....the one that consistantly wears them...has forsaken one of the few mandates that were made about the tzit tzit....the blue thread. They do this of course because they say they can't be sure of the dye source or because the cerulean mussel has all but disappeared and the dye can only be derived from that particular mussel. Which the scriptures don't say anything about. KP made an astonishing observation about tassels that I have taken to heart. He said that of course the mussel or snail is an unclean animal, so somebody had to become unclean to process the dye so that the Israelites could keep the commandment. Sounds a lot like Yahushua taking on our burden so we could be free to live in the ways of Yahuweh without the condemnation that it brings.

FYI, Michael Rood did an episode that you can find at youtube called The Hem of His Garment. There were some very interesting facts that he brought up.

I am not forcing people to wear tassels (how could I anyway) or maybe some think it's strange that I should choose to wear them. All I can say is that by wearing them I am aided in concentrating on what really matters and I have by Yah's grace overcome a personal flaw, that inhibited me from growing spiritually. My personal feeling is that if I am going to wear a statement of faith I would rather wear one that Yahuweh mandated rather than Babylonian Gold.

Shalom
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Icy  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:49:11 AM(UTC)
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Shalom82,
Thanks for the encouragment. I may still want pork, but it is not a struggle. I don't have any in the house, and I rarely go out to eat, so I don't have it around constantly like you did in China. Hmmm, I wonder. . . There is this pizza that I used to always get that I know has pork on it, but I would still get it because it was so good and I just told myself I was eating pizza and forgot about the pork, but for months now, I have not been able to find it. Could it be that YHWH is keeping me from getting that pizza and subsequently eating pork?

I certainly agree with you that if you are going to wear a visible symbol of your faith, it should be what YHWH mandated. I have never been one to wear a symbol of my faith as an object. The symbol of my faith that I wear is my character and actions. Even without me talking about YHWH or his scriptures I would hope that people could see him in me. I do like the idea of having the tzit tzit as a reminder for yourself. Something that you can see that will make you think twice about what you do or say. I would like to say I don't need that, but I'm not perfect and am sure I, like everyone else, do. It helps to just keep up a running conversation with YHWH, imagining him with you always (since he is), and keeping him at the front of your mind. I must confess though, that I have not done this as much as I used to. Perhaps with tzit tzit, it would be easier for me to keep this up.
Offline shalom82  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:52:18 AM(UTC)
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Icy,
You are really doing yourself a favor if you keep away from that contemptible stuff. I don't know how long you have been eating according to the scriptures but I think you will notice a difference in your health eventually.

As for the tzit tzit, you said:
The symbol of my faith that I wear is my character and actions. Even without me talking about YHWH or his scriptures I would hope that people could see him in me. I do like the idea of having the tzit tzit as a reminder for yourself. Something that you can see that will make you think twice about what you do or say. I would like to say I don't need that, but I'm not perfect and am sure I, like everyone else, do.

Well I see it like this if this helps. Because we have Yahuweh, because he is our Father, and because we have been given shalom through the sacrifice of his atoning manifestation Yahushua, that is exactly why we wear tassels....not in spite of that. We wear tassels because we are born anew not because we need to be born anew. When you were young you probably at first wanted to dress yourself, and you wore underwear on your head and a t-shirt for pants and a coat in the middle of summer.....ok that was just me but anyway. Your loving Mother or Father then took care of the mess you made and dressed you and showed you how to dress properly. I wear tassels because in my eyes Yahuweh told me this is the way I should dress...and he is my heavenly father, my creator....if I listened to my parents....I guess I'll listen to him too. You are absolutely right. The tassels do not change us. It is Yahuweh's Ruach that does that. We are enshrouded in that garment of life and our redemption flows out from how we interact with our world. There have been times when I have gone out without my tassels on and I didn't start hitting on prostitutes and shooting up heroin....the change was in me. But as you said that reminder doesn't hurt and it surely does help.

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Jeannie  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 12:35:36 PM(UTC)
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Thank you shalom82.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 1:46:16 PM(UTC)
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Shalom82 - I can completely relate to your pork story :) I used to love it - but once I started following the "Good living guide" it actually makes me feel a little ill... I really did not expect that!
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline shalom82  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:24:23 PM(UTC)
shalom82
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I'll just say one more thing about tassels that relates to my message to Icy. I was on the cusp of finding the right words, but then I lost it, but now through Yahuweh's good grace, I have recovered a fine sentiment.

The Israelites were receptive to Yahuweh's commands. They said "All that Yahuweh has spoken we will do.". They were the redeemed out of Egypt...out of that death cult and land of darkness. They were the forshadowing of us being redeemed out of our own Egypt our own place of sin and ignorance. I guess you could say this not only applies to tassels, but to all of the precepts and statutes of the living elohim, Yahuweh...from Genesis to Revelation. Israel was not always this cooperative or receptive as we all know, but much more so than the surrounding people groups. We definitely do see individual people from the surrounding nations coming in...such as Rut, but the condition was this, "Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God.". Of course we have to remember that Israel is not truly an racial status. Israel is an ethnos. To attach yourself to the people Israel means/should mean you are living your life according to your Abba Yahuweh's ways, because you have realized he is the one and only God, the one who has redeemed you and will perpetually love you and shower his favor upon you if you will trust and fellowship with him.

Yahuweh has never worked with proud and unreceptive people groups, (including his own adopted people). He hardens their hearts and chastises them until they either become receptive or deem themselves deserving of his ultimate justice. Look at Yonah, he might have made only an utterance in Ninevah, and the people sat in ash piles, and were preserved for another hundred years.

That's one of the reasons we are not tasked to go out and missionize incessantly like the Mormons or the Jehovah's witnesses. That's why we must be willing to separate even from our family's practices and ways if need be.

Because we are receptive, because we trust we should heed and obey. We obeyed our parents, when they said don't touch that, it's hot, when they said, don't eat those, they'll make you sick, when they said, clean your room, we listened...........sometimes. Yahuweh is our HEAVENLY Abba, how much more so we should listen to him. That's what is comes down to for me

I know I am preaching to the choir, but sometimes maybe I write for my own benefit too.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:41:11 PM(UTC)
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I would like to hear your ideas about how we can as Yah's redeemed fulfill the spiritual side of leaving the corners of our fields unharvested for the poor and needy. As we are not most of us farmers anymore, indeed how can we fulfill this very important commandment. I believe that the Torah of Yahuweh is for all time and even if they can't be fulfilled literally they are or all can be fulfilled according to the spirit of the Torah. I would definitely agree with KP that the spiritual side of this mitzvah is to give others the chance to be part of their own salvation, whether it be spiritual or physical. I would love to hear your ideas.

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:58:47 PM(UTC)
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Not to simplify Torah and definitely not stating that to "be a good person" is enough, one of the basic premises that runs throughout the Torah is kindness. Be kind to others, humans and animals as Yahuweh has been kind to us. Yahuweh has been very very very kind to us, indeed.
And we here at YY have been shouting out that the Torah is for our benefit, not just for some arbitrary creator's satisfaction or ego trip.

In that spirit I would like to tell you about Jed. Jed is a neighbor of ours. He is a former lumberjack and now he is a self employed scrap metal hauler. We have known Jed and his family for a number of years and they are all very unique people. There are probably at least the remnants of 20 cars around his home, and there are walls of tires. He has several pet pigs and a duck that lives in his bathtub...or atleast he did...I am not sure if he does now. He doesn't have a lot of money yet he still has the most rare and exotic collection of guns that I have ever seen. Of course there is scrap metal everywhere and his house is a shack. One time I went in to see his son Phin sweeping their dirt kitchen floor. Jed's family are the remnants of what country people used to do. They barter for most of what they have. Jed is kind of a local joke. Everyone knows him, knows how he lives, and knows he would do anything for anybody. The man would give you the threadbare shirt off his back. He is satisfied and by all appearances has no ambition other than to be satisfied with his limited means. When I say he would do anything for anybody, I really think he would. And he has. People do joke about him and his pleasant...aroma, but overall people have a good opinion of him.

Recently his son died...not Phin, but his other son died in a motor vehicle accident. People joke about Jed, but the funeral home could not hold the amount of mourners that came not because they knew his son, but to come and comfort Jed and his family in their time of need. It looked like the mayor had died, but I doubt the mayor would have gotten that much of a response. These people came because they knew Jed's kindness, they had felt the warmth of his good heart, and on that day they put their jokes and their pride aside and payed homage to a man with a HEART knowlege of the spiritual side of the Torah.

Everything is reciprocal, Yahuweh knew that a long time ago, and revealed it to us in his Torah.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Jeannie  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 3:59:37 PM(UTC)
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Don't you feel cheated not having been taught Torah in "Church"!! To really know that the OC was every bit the NC and not something that was seperated!! I can't wait for KP to start doing stuff about the Torah. His book TOM is so good if you haven't read it.
Offline shalom82  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2007 4:45:17 PM(UTC)
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Jeannie,
Amane to that. I have read KP's book, TOM. For all of you visitors browsing the forum...come on already...become a member and start fellowship with us and take advantage of these great resources at YY.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#18 Posted : Thursday, September 13, 2007 10:32:21 PM(UTC)
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Shalom to all,

I was wondering about the mezuzah. This is more of a perhaps legalistic commandment the kind like tassels and kosher eating that most believers aren't comfortable with. But, I think it is valid and legitimate that we should attach the words that Yahuweh commanded that we attach to our mezuzah (doorpost). I hate to always say that I agree with Yada or KP, not because I dislike them or because I want to prove them wrong, but I think sometimes we here at YY get in danger of the trap or saying I follow Paul...or I follow Apollos. But I do agree with KP about the mezuzah. We are not to worry about getting a parchment with a particular type of writing style that is put into a certain little box that is attached to your doorpost at a certain angle. I agree that the words are supposed to be out there for all to see...forget religion and ceremony....Yahuweh wants prime advertising space. We will allow Coca Cola to be everywhere and we advertise for Nike at a cost to ourselves...forget pro bono. Once again, why wouldn't we give the creator of the universe his due and allow him to have a little advertising space. When I was living in China, I made a mezuzah sign that I attached to our doorpost. I have yet to make one yet because I would like to ask your opinions on how you do it. before I go on I want to say something....

I sometimes get afraid that I get a little arrogant against tradition. Tradition can be beautiful and can give a people group or an ethnos a wonderful kind of solidarity. The Jews pray towards Jerusalem. I see nothing wrong with that. In fact I think it's good, I consider all that has happened there and all that will happen. I consider what Jerusalem means...the place from which salvation flows, and I have no problem with praying towards Jerusalem. I don't think Yahushua was against tradition...I think he kept much of the sagely practices either by design or by coincidence. He only preached against those traditions that nullified the Torah. And yes...there were enough of those to keep him busy. My wife lights the sabbath candles before night fall on Friday. She lights them just as a non believing Jewish family keeping the talmud would. There is no mandate as far as I can tell to light two sabbath candles before nightfall. It's a tradition and a beautiful tradition at that. There was a special warm feeling that came over me when a parallel was or shadow was put into my heart. I see those candles as the two witnesses, Eliyahu and Hanoch, that will proclaim and be witness to Yahushua and will condemn the world and it's wicked ways. They will be a light in the darkness....the two of them. I have no idea if the candles have that significance...but that's what they mean to me. Traditions can be beautiful...as long as they are not mandated...but I can't discount them wholesale....

Having said that, I believe putting the words of scripture in the little mezuzah case fly in the face of the spirit of this mitzvah. Yahuweh wants that advertising space and he wants us to revere his word...not a little silver or gold or wooden case. He wants his word to be infront of us whether it's in our brains, in our scripture books or on our doorposts. The one I produced in China had the Shema and it's corresponding verses on it and the 10 commandments....I know that the ten commandments are just a construct but I called them that for the sake of ease and understanding. Now I am thinking of ( and this would be difficult) making a mezuzah sign for all of the viable commandments that would go the whole way down the door. I am not considering this to be legalistic or to make sure that I somehow do a better job. My reason is spiritual for doing this so hear me out. As you know a person who does the letter of the torah and yet fails in one commandment might as well have transgressed the whole of the torah. When I look at that long list and I realize that from an eternal sense all it can do is damn me...I feel such an appreciation for Yahushua's standing in for me.

Now do not think that I think the Torah can only damn. Without Yahushua's sacrifice...yes...that's all it can do is damn.....but with him...it is the wonderful gift that Yahuweh uses to fellowship with, benefit, and instruct his set apart family.

I would like your opinions....right away so hurry up....haha
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Icy  
#19 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2007 4:25:16 AM(UTC)
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I have not put up a mezuzah, but I think it is a good idea. I certainly agree with you that it should be visible.

Tradition can be a good thing, but only if the reason for the tradition is remembered and upheld. Once that gets lost or altered, simply doing the tradition because "it's tradition" is a very bad thing. For this reason alone, I hate tradition, because this always happens. The Jewish traditions are an excellent example of this. I wouldn't even call doing something that YHWH tells us to do "tradition", because you aren't doing it just because it is handed down, but because it came from YHWH.
Offline Yada  
#20 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2007 8:09:25 AM(UTC)
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I have wondered about the mezuzah myself. I remember reading a reference to it in II Kings (I think) but was wondering where else in Scripture it is referred to?

If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
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Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
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Offline Tiffany  
#21 Posted : Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:21:38 AM(UTC)
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Ok so I want to ask a question...

Where does the new covenant come into play?

I know the scripture verse below applies to all kinds of different areas as Yada says Yahweh always several brush strokes in just a few word, but as I read the above comment I want to question the concept of the jewish law, not that we shouldn't do it because anything Yahweh says is good, but how do we really apply it to our lives with out it ruining the relationship?


Quote:
Acts 11:6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles, and birds of the air. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, 'Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.' 8 "I replied, 'Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.' 9 "The voice spoke from heaven a second time, 'Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.' 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again. Acts 11:10


Always questioning!!
Tiffany
Offline shalom82  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:34:36 PM(UTC)
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I am not adding my opinion to this topic. I want to see what you all think. So in that light, what do you think of tefilim? I know of some who take this commandment literally, and I know of some who take this commandment figuratively. Hope to hear from you soon.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:10:51 PM(UTC)
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Just before Yom Kippurym, I recieved my Kudu horn which I had bought from Ebay. It was an unfinished horn, it was not polished and the mouthpiece was not yet cut. Fortunately, the karatin was separated from the bone mass inside the horn. I waited a couple of days to actually cut the tip off and drill the mouthpiece. I was so nervous. It wasn't that expensive, but I didn't want to ruin it. That would have been a lost of almost 60 dollars that could have been spent on "more practical things". But I went though with it, and let me say it came out beautiful. I played Tuba for 8 years in school and I almost considered being a music major so I did have some knowledge about how to sound a wind instrument. But as all those musicians out there know a tuba mouthpiece is quite different from a trumpet mouthpiece. Well, all that considered, I believe this mouthpiece cup is even smaller than a trumpet mouthpiece. It's probably close to a French Horn mouthpiece. After a little practice, I got it down pat. I have to say I have listened to a lot of shofars being blown on youtube, but honestly and I am not bragging....mine sounds better. It sounds absolutely wonderful. It has a rich tone, It really almost sounds like a French Horn. I used it on Kippurym. I am looking into the role of the shofar in the life of the Israelite and I can't wait to use it on Rosh Chodesh. I know that a trumpet was sounded at the Temple at the start of the Shabbat, and it was used in litergy and praise music in the great orchestras that played on the Temple grounds. I also know it was used for war. I am trying to find more information on the shofar and it's uses and it's significance. I will post the information as I get it, but I would invite any and all people who have any knowledge of the shofar to post and share their wealth.

As an aside, I just want to say that if you are considering making a shofar, it really is so easy to do. I am no renowned craftsman and I was able to do it. Make your own and you will accomplish two things. You will have an Istrument that is akin to the voice of Yahuweh, an instrument that will be sounded when the Messiah returns in glory, THAT YOU MADE, and you will save an absolute bundle of money. I know from experience that the Kudu horn shofars can run you from 100 to 300 dollars. If you go on ebay and type kudu horn you can find dealers. I payed a pretty hefty price for mine because I kept on getting outbid at the last moment so I just got a ''buy it now" one.

Shalom
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:21:10 PM(UTC)
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Rosh Chodesh.....Astronomical new moon or first visible sliver?
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline shalom82  
#25 Posted : Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:06:28 PM(UTC)
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well, I'll give it another shot. And try this topic starter.


Circumcision?....
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Matthew  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:12:41 AM(UTC)
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Coming back to the Kosher diet in the original post. I've read the Dietary Laws chapter in TOM and I'm still a little confused as to what I can and cannot eat. I know some rabbis will tell you that one cannot even have a cup of coffee (with milk) because of a steak meal eaten before. So my question is what are the limits when it comes to meat and milk? Does this mean no more cheeseburgers, lasagna, beef stroganoff, spaghetti bolagnese (cheese added after cooking), etc.?!

And blood in meat, how rare is too rare?

And finally, I enjoy a good bottle (or should I rather say glass) of wine, what does Scripture say on this particular topic, I've done word (wine, vine, vineyard, etc.) searches but haven't found anything conclusive yet? Are the rabbinical standards of kosher wine based on Scripture?
Offline Matthew  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2007 9:36:06 AM(UTC)
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Sorry, should of said "beef" lasagna... I know proper lasagna, Italian style, comes with pork and is non-kosher.
Offline shalom82  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2007 12:39:44 PM(UTC)
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You don't have to worry too much about the rabbinic precepts pertaining to food, Matthew. They are such a burden that if it wasnt about food it would be tragic. You can see that the rabbinic standards for eating dairy with beef are unfounded.

7 Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. 8 He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.

The next verse wasn't, 'And Yahuweh saw what Abraham brought him and said, "Hey, Abe, what are you doing?!!! I am sorry get that milk out of my sight, I never drink milk or eat cheese with beef." And Abraham asked, "Whynot?" Yahuweh promptly replied, "Because my rabbi tould me I couldn't."

They base the meat and dairy precept on this....

21 Do not eat anything you find already dead. You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the LORD your God.
Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk

The Pagan cultures around the Israelites did this and poured the broth on the fields to ensure their God's blessings for their future harvests.

Specifically it does with the kid being cooked in IT's MOTHER's milk, which I think speaks on a much deeper spiritual level.

The pharisees and then the rabbis looking at only the literal letter of the law started putting fences upon fences around Torah so the people wouldn't even think about breaking the original precepts. Most likely because they wouldn't even know the original precepts.

As far as the blood issue goes, I think this is one that Yahuweh takes pretty seriously. For one thing, blood is one of the most toxic things you can injest, I won't go into the spiritual deeper meanings of blood because I am sure you already know that.

Kosher wine?

Methinks not. Wine is pretty much wine. As long as the companies you buy from are not using it in pagan rituals or dedicating it to Ba'al or something, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It doesn't hurt to buy Kosher wine, but there is no reason you must or should buy it.

What is Kosher wine? Wine made by kosher ingredients (which I don't really understand), and made by Jews or made under Rabbinic supervision.

I guess that's a good thing because the wines I used to drink before I was opened up to the truth were the old piggy bath variety, where they had the pigs swim around in it for a good three hours before they could put it in the barrels.....

The Jews in this respect are actually getting more strict on this issue. Orthodox Rabbis used to allow non kosher wine for common or celebratory use, but now they don't....So you have to ask yourself what changed? So for all that time they were screwing up the Mitzvah? Rabbinic judaism is rule by decree...or more accurately rule by whim.

My advice to you Matthew is search the scriptures,......understand the reason why, the deeper meaning, and then the actual benefit or "gift" of living by the precept. Don't worry about the rest of it.

Shalom
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2007 1:16:02 PM(UTC)
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<offtopic-ish>

Basically, yes Christianity is not hot on the money - they miss loads and all that and add lots of paganism - then point at the jews for being legalistic and religious and stupid for missing the Messiah. But that does not mean when you realize that Christianity is wrong that Judaisms is right. I think that is the trap that most Messianic's fall into - they know something is up, they know that the Torah wasn't ended after the Messiah suffered separation for us, so they go to the thing they now think must be right - and who can blame them as its really the only logical step... (if you don't really look at stuff...)

So you deflect off Christianity and end up following Messianic teaching which is pretty much Jewish + Messiah.

unfortunately the Jews aren't that hot on stuff either and have added just as much pointless man stuff/Paganism to everything as Christianity has.

So thats unfortunately why we see so many people leaning on the teachings of the "613 laws" that miss the point and DO bind us, unlike the guidance and instruction that Yahweh gives us which free's us.

I think my point is, the "law" is meaningless to me in comparison to my relationship with my Father, BUT, through my relationship WITH my Father the "law" means EVERYTHING to me. Its a very strange place to be, and Christians/Messianic's don't get it one bit. Its a bit like everything He requires of us, without Him its nothing, with Him its everything - partnership to the core :)

I hope that made sense in this topic LOL if not... ahh well :) its late and ive drank lots of tea tonight...

Love you guys!

</off topic-ness>
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Jim  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:35:28 PM(UTC)
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Right on Robski!
Jim
Offline Matthew  
#31 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:30:05 AM(UTC)
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Hi Shalom, Rob, Jim and the rest!

Thanks for your reply Shalom and Rob, your responses have helped me, its given me peace. I have recently come to know not to trust the Jews to teach Torah as my father-in-law's side are feast-celebrating (Passover, Hanukkah, the New Year, well not all of them), non-kosher-eating, Sabbath-working Jews! I haven't been following the "Christian-Messianic-Judaism" (don't know what to call it really) belief for long and haven't really shown them my understanding. But I know enough now to read and study for myself, and ask questions on a forum like this, to find the Truth. Funny though, my mother-in-law's side are strong Catholics. The wife got caught in the middle and is a confessed atheist. I've always had a keen interest with Jewish people and their understanding of the Scriptures, ever since I was born again I've questioned my pastor and friends why we don't keep, or even understand, the Torah. Thankfully the Set-Apart Spirit brought me to the Truth without guidance from anyone else. Let's just say that one thing He did was to lead me to Yada's and KP's books to confirm my yearning, and also to seek the most accurate version of Scripture which led me to read the preface of my old NIV Bible to discover the missing Name, and a lot of other missing things from it too!

I do tend to get carried away and get "religious" in the sense, more focused on doing works instead of my relationship with my Father. But yet I'm at peace in my walk now, so much more than when I was in the Christian church environment, knowing that He knows "where I'm at" and we're in this walk together - Partnership to the Core!

PS: Their excuse for non-kosher eating is that unclean animals are more hygienically clean today than in the past.

Concerning tassles, I don't wear them yet but I think it might be a good thing for me.
Offline shalom82  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:35:47 PM(UTC)
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Shalom Qodeshim,
I have said before that when I say Torah, I mean all Torah from Genesis to Revelation. It is all teaching and instruction. So I don't limit myself just to Torah for advice on living. So I would like to take from Ecclesiastes 9:8:

Let your garments be always white, and don't let your head lack oil.

Some would say this is figurative spiritual message as it well could be...on second thought I am sure that it has a deeper spiritual meaning. And I am open to anybody's interpretaion about this verse as far as it's deeper spiritual context is concerned.

But going on that as a more literal funtional piece of advice, could it be that Yahuweh inspired Solomon to write these words for our own benefit? Think about when you wear a clean white t-shirt or white dress shirt. I don't know about you but it makes me feel fresh, full of energy, and more importantly...clean. I don't feel heavy or weighted down. Yada wrote a post on A.J. Jacobs book, The Year of Living, Biblically. I read an a Q and A that was done by Jacob's and he said one of his biggest surprises was how wonderful it was to wear white all the time.

Now, I am not advocating Jacob's book,eventhough I think it is funny. I think some of the things he does in his book are ridiculous to the point of mocking biblical practice, such as throwing pebbles at adulterers. And then missing the point as to why adulterers, blasphemers, and witches were stoned and then criticizing the practice. Yahuweh knew that a little leaven ruins the whole batch which happened in Israel and has been happening markedly in the west since the 60's or perhaps even before. We can still "stone" unrepentant sinners today by ostrasizing and ignoring them, and more specifically within the body of messiah by kicking them out. Remember when Josiah took out all the votives dedicated to Ba'al in the temple? That stuff had been going on for years and years because of acquiesense.

I will tell you one thing that I have found. Olive oil (in small amounts!!!!) Is probably the best hair product that people never use. My hair was whispy and too fluffy and without trying to be gross I have dandruff. I started to use olive oil because of some obscure article I read, unfortunately not because of Ecclesiates. It works. It really really works. It improves your hair quality better than any expensive shampoo or conditioner will. You happen to end up smelling delicious as a side effect...haha.
Shalom,
Jake
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline J&M  
#33 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2007 1:42:36 AM(UTC)
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I suspect that there is a principle here - in my experience YHWH always has a good reason for all His advise to us, thus we need to look at Torah in two ways; First the way of trust and obedience without fear, when we do not understand the whys and wherefores, and secondly, not to stop seeking to understand YHWH's Truths behind His advice to us.

Once the truth is found and understood, we can then modify our behaviour to fully benefit from the 'yada'

If we neglect the second stage of seeking to understand, then trust and obedience are prone to turn into ritual and tradition. This is particularly true across the so called 'generation gap' where we do things (or don't) because our parents did (or did'nt do)them.

Offline shalom82  
#34 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2007 5:07:58 PM(UTC)
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Shalom,
Well there is a deeper meaning to the whole white garment issue. I think I had it figured out from the start but I also found a very good article that is sort of long winded. I will write the main points of it for those who are not interested in following the link
http://www.xenos.org/min...rnal/issue5/garments.htm
As to the deeper meaning I think there is something to be said about clothes and the Hebrew relationship to clothes. There is a saying that clothes make the man. For the Hebrews that really rung true. We can see examples of where the garment was representative of the condithion of the wearer. People wore sack cloth or tore their clothing in mourning. Widows and virgins all had distinctive types of clothing or mantles that they wore. Prophets were noted more than once for their clothes hairy or wooly exteriors and their leather belts. Clothing or should I say lack there of spoke of death. Remember back to Job. We can look at examples where clothes were endemic of the wearers condition.
Jacob with Joseph's torn and bloody coat
The Giboenites deception of Joshua
Elisha picking up Elijah's garment and picking up where he left off
Job's misery and his nakedness
The woman with the flow of blood only having to touch Yahushua's fringes

So it is my belief that clothing is really talking about your inward condition. Solomon says let your garments always be white, but what he is really saying is let your inner condition your heart and your mindset be white.

White is a color identified with purity, festiveness, resurrection, and victory
To wear white is to be joyful
to wear white is to be festive
to wear white is to be alive (not just in the here and now but in the sense of eternity too)
to wear white is to wear the garment of the resurrected body that is given through Messiah Yahushua's pesach offering
it is to wear the garment of victory, victory over death, over ignorance, over sin

If this perhaps is just figurative, which it may well be (but I have my doubts) There will be a time when this is indeed literal. We of course know this from Revelation.


Our outward demeanor and our outward appearance to have a bearing on our inward emotions and thoughts

If Yahuweh didn't believe that I don't think he would have given the commandment to wear tassels.

White has a noticable psychological effect on us. I think that if one does wear white it may very well lend itself to the deeper psychological/spiritual attainment that is spoken of Kehilat/Ecclesiastes 9:8. It is known that darker colors like hunter green and purple can have effects that depress you and supress your appetite. That does not seem very festive or joyful. Black as it is with us was associated in Israel with mourning. Sackcloth was not as we imagine burlap but was usually made from black goats hair. Smiling when we don't really feel like smiling increases our seretonin and improves our mood.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline J&M  
#35 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2007 4:07:26 AM(UTC)
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The orthadox got where they are today because they 'hid' behind the scriptures to cover their lack of real understanding. If you make a mountain out of Torah, you can 'impress the natives etc.'

We obey the advise of Torah because we love its author - YHWH, and trust Him to guide us without fear that any harm will come to us.

It is important however that we do not loose our 'first love' which is our walk alongside YHWH in a one to one relationship with HIM. This is the walk described in 1 Corinthians 13, and although I keep all the tenets of Torah (as the orthadox try very hard to do) if I do not have agape, I am as a clashing symbol (if you will excuse the substitution).

Yahushua warns us about doing things just for show, much better the widow's modest mites given in love, than the pharisee's ostentation designed to glorify self.

Offline shalom82  
#36 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2007 12:48:30 PM(UTC)
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J&M,
I completely agree with you, but I am not sure if you are in agreement or disagreement with me. From the start about my post about Kehilat 9:8, I have said that there is a deeper meaning to the literal statement about wearing white. I think that I stated my belief as to what that deeper meaning was. I welcome you to add to all of our understanding of this verse if you have a revelation.

My simple point was that of my experience and as I mentioned from the author who wrote The Year of Living Biblically. I for one as an individual feel healthier, lighter, cleaner, and happier when I wear a clean white garment. I was purely speculating that IN ADDITION to a more meaningful and spiritual reason for this verse there could be something to simple advice from our heavenly father Yahuweh about a something that would benefit us in our daily walk with him. I by no means mandate the wearing of white because I think that is at most a secondary meaning of this verse. But simply as an observation and speculation I concluded that there is a certain benefit to wearing white garments. I would not say that my view is contradictary to the idea that we walk in Torah because of our love for it's author or His love for us. I don't believe if you wear white you are righteous or that you will partially secure salvation. Just that it's comfortable and lends itself to uplifting your countenance.
Shalom,
Jacob
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline J&M  
#37 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:10:17 AM(UTC)
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To me, wearing white is significant of yehudim, but it is a 'spiritual' garment as at the transfiguration.

As an officer in the navy (royal) I often had to wear whites, I could get through about 4 sets a day, they were extremely difficult to work in and to keep smart. Any sweat caused stains and blotches etc.

To wear white one must be in a permanent sabbath!
Offline shalom82  
#38 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:56:45 PM(UTC)
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J&M,
I completely agree with you that the primary meaning of this verse is the spiritual one. That is what we MUST come away with from this verse.

Indeed, white easily gets dirty. I wasn't in the Navy, Royal or American, but I am a farmer, so I know where you are coming from.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline Koos  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:18:00 AM(UTC)
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Yahuweh is very practical and I just love reading the Torah as uncovered in TOM. When reading the mitzvah on the tsitzit/tassels, Mitzvah 18, chapter 1, Signs and Symbols, I could not help but smile. I am not going to paste that particular one here for lack of space, however I should, because just to re-read it with the Ruach Spirit hovering over you, is precious and nutritious. Driving your car in Africa can easily lead to road rage. But the moment one has a special number plate like for instance 777 HVN as a registration number, or even some bumper sticker which indicates that the driver is a Christian believer, one is immediately extremely careful of your driving behavior lest you bring shame to your Heavenly Father. That registration number or bumper sticker serves as a tsitzit or tassel!! Now I have to ask Yahushua to reveal to me personally a head of time whenever my behavior might not be acceptable to the set apart Ruach Spirit and She serves as my built in tsitzit/tassel. I do not particularly walk around in clothes with the tassels on the seams – I experience Her presence constantly with me, in me, and She reminds me to walk the walk with Yahuweh and to be His witness in everything one does. It reminds me of mitzvoth 19 and 20. “His words shall be in my heart” though the Jews had to bind symbols of them around their heads and arms” – “God’s word must be evident in the things we do, the way we interact with people, and the things we own, for these things are all evidence (“a sign”) of our attitude toward the mind of Yahweh”.
And then, when I sometimes feel like showing Yahuweh that I am bursting with joy and love for Him, what can I do? Bring Him a BURNT OFFERING!!
Who said the offerings of the Torah were obsolete?? They are still applicable!!
475) “"When any one of you brings an offering to Yahweh, you shall bring your offering of the livestock--of the herd and of the flock. If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before Yahweh." (Leviticus 1:2-3) The burnt offering (Hebrew: olah) was a subset of the larger concept of an "offering" (Hebrew: qorban), denoting a gift made to deity. The olah was completely voluntary, and, depending on the wealth of the giver, could be a bull, ram, goat, young pigeons, or turtledoves. The quadrupeds had to be males, and unblemished--a clear indication that the Messiah’s sacrifice is in view. (Young birds are notoriously hard to differentiate by sex, so Yahweh didn’t require it.) The giver "identified" with the animal by placing his hand on its head. The killing of the sacrificial animal was then done, but not by the priest (as was the usual practice)--it was done by the worshipper, who then skinned it, cut it up, and washed the parts in water. The priest sprinkled the blood all around the altar, placed the sacrifice on the altar, and burned it completely--no meat was eaten by priest or worshipper.
The Torah does not overtly explain why the olah would be offered up. It is not meant as atonement for sin, for other types of qorban accomplished that. Although sometimes offered when a petition was made for Yahweh’s intervention (as in Judges 21:4), that was more properly the role of the peace offering. The burnt offering was, rather, a pure expression of homage to Yahweh, often given in an overflowing of joyful celebration. (A good example is in I Samuel 6:14, when the relieved Israelites got the ark of the covenant back from the pesky Philistines who had captured it.) This translates today into the spiritual sacrifice of ourselves to Yahweh, as Paul points out: "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove [i.e., test, examine, recognize as genuine] what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." (Romans 12:1-2) Remember, the worshipper prepared the olah. If we are to "die" to the world in homage to Yahweh, it must be by our own hand.”” TOM Chapter 12 Mitzvah 475.
If anyone asks me what is the significance of the Torah to day for me personally, these are typical examples, there are many more, of how one should apply the Torah to one’s everyday walk with Yahweh. “‘Yahuweh I want to bring you a burnt offering – I want to express my love for you, I appreciate You, I worship you. Thank you for being my “older brother”, my Father, my Mother, my advocate, my High Priest. I present my body to You as a living sacrifice. I do not want to be conformed to the world. I want to die to the world and I want Yahushua to become more and more in this temporal body in which I exist.’” I have to make sure that my spiritual diet consists of the necessary nourishment in order that my “immortal” soul, born from above, grows and develops to it’s fullest potential while I am still here on this planet in this dimension.
Who would have expected that Leviticus 1:2-3 can be connected to Romans 12:1-2? To me this is what the Torah means for the believer. Take the line of the Old Covenant through to the Renewed Covenant. And that is precisely what we usually do on a Sabbath – we re-read TOM and study it thoroughly in line with the scriptures of Paul as to what he as an expert of the Mosaic laws has to say.
This past week-end we went camping with our kids, my son and his wife. Camping to us mean total relaxation, lying in the “loafa” chairs, chatting and reading. I had TOM with me and we chatted and fellowshipped and made camp fires and braaied stakes, washed the dishes, and talked about the Laws of Moses and the writings of the prophets. I think it must have been an eye opener to my kids, because since they heard that we were keeping the Sabbath, they associated it with strict observance of rigid rules of do’s and do not’s. They in fact did experience what Yahuweh said “ This is My day, remember it, remember the significance, the symbolism, the meaning, the 6+1 revelation, remember Me!!” We were free to witness and the fact that we were all but “legalistic”, made an impression and seeds were sown. The Spirit will hover.
Sabbaths now to me are much more enjoyable than Sundays. “Son worshippers” have to go to church in order to reduce their guilt feelings, then rush back home for a massive dinner, afternoon sleep or whatever – but none keep themselves busy with Yahuweh’s Scriptures.
To us Sabbath is a joy. From sunset Friday evening right through to sunset Sabbath – whatever you are busy with are being interrupted only with the study of Yahuweh’s Scriptures which is the main/dominant activity.
However if you go camping with people who will not accommodate you in your sharing your beliefs with them on the Sabbath, stay away, stay at home.
May Yahushua bless you all.
Koos
Offline Matthew  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:58:10 PM(UTC)
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TOM - Chapter 5 - The Dietary Laws - kp wrote:
(146) Do not eat unclean fish. "They [whatever in the water does not have fins and scales] shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination. Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales--that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:11-12) Here we see the negatively stated converse to mitzvah #145. It’s not a separate precept. But as long as we’re here, let me point out another detail that forces us to look beyond the mere letter of the law. We see here (as in other places) that not only weren’t the Israelites to eat the forbidden flesh, they weren’t even to touch the carcasses of these creatures after they had died. The consequences of touching the carcass of any unclean animal are summarized in verses 24-25: "By these you shall become unclean; whoever touches the carcass of any of them shall be unclean until evening; whoever carries part of the carcass of any of them shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening."

"Whoever carries part of the carcass of any of them?" I hate to tell you this, but Yahweh commanded every Israelite to do precisely that--or something very close to it. Remember mitzvah #41? The Jews were instructed to attach tassels--called tsitzits--to the corners of their garments, each containing a single blue thread, the purpose of which was "that you may look upon it and remember all the commandments of Yahweh and do them, and that you may not follow the harlotry to which your own heart and your own eyes are inclined." (Numbers 15:39) Where did the blue dye come from? There was only one source, the cerulean mussel, a.k.a. the murex. So by wearing the tsitzit with the required blue thread, the Jews were in a sense "carrying part of the carcass" of an unclean creature. At the very least, their keeping of the law of the tsitzit had required someone else to become ceremonially unclean for their benefit--processing the dye from the shellfish corpses. When they saw the blue threads in their tsitzits, they should have been reminded that somebody had borne their uncleanness for them. The blue thread was prophetic of the Messiah.

Yahweh was practically screaming that "whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight...." Did God purposely build this glitch into His Law, making it impossible to remain ceremonially clean? I believe He did. Paul goes on to explain: "For by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:19-23) We are all unclean, and keeping the law cannot make us clean. Only the blood of Christ can do that.


This passage confuses me somewhat. So even if they washed themselves, in order to be clean by evening, they would still be unclean as soon as they put on the tassels again? This part of Scripture really confuses me, being unclean and becoming clean. How do we approach this under the New Covenant? I know we wash ourselves by the Word, but I'm still somewhat confused by all this clean and unclean. And what about when it comes to becoming clean unintentionally and intentionally?

In a practical sense I can understand washing oneself after touching a dead unclean animal, because of diseases and such. But what if I happened to pick up a dead sea creature at the beach in order that no one steps on it, or my kids don't pick it up? Would I become unclean, thereby needing to wash myself before I approach in prayer/communion? My apologies for the simple question but it's something I really want to know, and also to know how to answer if a friend asks me.

On a lighter note concerning the need to wash oneself after touching an dead unclean animal (wearing tassels in this case), maybe God was trying to get them, and us, to wash oneself with the Word on a daily bases because of our continual state of being unclean!
Offline kp  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:20:42 PM(UTC)
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I think you're getting the picture, Matthew. Try as we might, we can't stay "clean" for longer than a New York minute on our own. Getting "unclean" is part and parcel of the human condition. Whereas atonement for sin needs to be done once (and was accomplished by Yahshua's finished work on Calvary), our cleansing---the washing of water by the Word---is an ongoing, daily process, one that needs to be repeated continually our entire lives in order to keep us in communion and fellowship with Yahweh. And here's the really astounding part: just as the blue thread in the tsitzit represented the Messiah, and the blue thread was dyed with the "unclean" murex ink, so Yahshua became unclean---actually became uncleanness---on our behalf. Voluntarily reduced to the status of a human being for a time, having given up the glorious perfection of His rightful place as God in heaven, He became the basis of our cleanness, the means by which we filthy creatures can stand before a Holy God. There's an old hymn entitled "I need Thee every hour." I think that about says it.

kp
Offline Icy  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2007 3:07:25 AM(UTC)
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I was under the impression that only the people that had to touch the murex to make the dye would become unclean. Just wearing the tsitzit wouldn't make a person unclean. If that were the case, then everyone would always be unclean. And, granted, we are. I agree with your conclusion, but I don't think that is the case here. A like point of view would be that anything made from leather or fur could potentially make a person unclean. I don't think that is the case. In the case of the dye, leather, or fur, all of those things have been processed and cleaned to get to from the animal to that final product. So, I don't think that after a person bathes and cleanses themselves that they would immediatly become unclean upon putting on the tassles. If that were true, then none of the sacrifices would have ever been performed, everyone would have been unclean.
Offline bitnet  
#43 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 1:13:00 AM(UTC)
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Posts: 1,120

Hello all,

While I am late on this topic, I think the physical items to help identify yourself is interesting if you are of the physical House of Yisrael and Yahuwdah. However, those symbols are simply symbols of your physical identity as you move about in this world of goyim. What really differentiates you and identifies you as belonging to Yahweh are the Sabbaths, and your observance of several other principles of good living based on the Law.

The diet is important and I can tell you that I lost interest in pork and shellfish 20 years ago and do not miss it. If I eat it by mistake, I do not scamper and beg for spiritual forgiveness as I know that it is a physical thing and that all I have to do is to not eat it again or risk getting sick. The trouble with many is that it has become a spiritual bogeyman. This has led to Jews and Muslims being so scared of it that if they come into contact with pork they have crazy rituals to purify themselves because they are afraid that it will stain them and deny them entrance into heaven.

We do not eat pork or shellfish mainly because it is simply not good for health! Yahweh tells us so and I believe Him for that as he is our Creator and knows our biology. I also believe that in the end-times the troubles will befall those eating pork, but it is not because pork causes calamities to befall them but simply because it means that they have not heeded the Word and are not part of the Ekklesia as the Ekklesia will have taken the time and effort to keep themselves pure for the Set-apart Spirit.
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#44 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 2:10:47 AM(UTC)
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bitnet wrote:
Hello all,

While I am late on this topic, I think the physical items to help identify yourself is interesting if you are of the physical House of Yisrael and Yahuwdah. However, those symbols are simply symbols of your physical identity as you move about in this world of goyim. What really differentiates you and identifies you as belonging to Yahweh are the Sabbaths, and your observance of several other principles of good living based on the Law.

The diet is important and I can tell you that I lost interest in pork and shellfish 20 years ago and do not miss it. If I eat it by mistake, I do not scamper and beg for spiritual forgiveness as I know that it is a physical thing and that all I have to do is to not eat it again or risk getting sick. The trouble with many is that it has become a spiritual bogeyman. This has led to Jews and Muslims being so scared of it that if they come into contact with pork they have crazy rituals to purify themselves because they are afraid that it will stain them and deny them entrance into heaven.

We do not eat pork or shellfish mainly because it is simply not good for health! Yahweh tells us so and I believe Him for that as he is our Creator and knows our biology. I also believe that in the end-times the troubles will befall those eating pork, but it is not because pork causes calamities to befall them but simply because it means that they have not heeded the Word and are not part of the Ekklesia as the Ekklesia will have taken the time and effort to keep themselves pure for the Set-apart Spirit.


our views are extreamly similar :) I must say I am impressed with the ammount of posts you have caught up on!
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline kp  
#45 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 5:49:23 AM(UTC)
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Well said, bitnet. Belief (in the sense of trust) of Yahweh is a package deal. Many claim to "trust" Him with their souls, but act as if His advice in the material world is worthless. When gentile "christians" dismiss the Torah as "mere Jewish stuff" that has no value for them in their tidy little insulated worlds, they've missed the point: Yahweh knows how we're built, because He built us. If we can't trust the Manufacturer to know what's good for our bodies, how in the world can we trust Him to know what's good for our souls? The only way to demonstrate our trust in the Manufacturer is to follow the Manufacturer's Guidelines, the Owner's Manual (oooh, catchy title). How far would we get if we trusted Ford to tell us when to change our air filters, but decided their advice on when to change our engine oil was written for somebody else, say, taxicab drivers, and therefore doesn't apply to us? Sure, the car might run okay for a while, but our willful ignorance of Ford's "omincience" in this matter would eventually come back to hurt us.

kp
Offline sugarman  
#46 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 4:45:20 PM(UTC)
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what your guys view when Yeshua says nothing that enters a man will make him unclean meaning his belly but what come out of him to me meaning what we say?

Edit: for acts 10 why did jews consider gentiles unclean? I think for first what they ate and what god they follow etc..... when you understand this you see why God mentions food in this vision.





First of all gentiles ate whatever and also they did not follow the true God until God chosen ones open the door to them.



This is mine view if you disagree then ok.

[Shalom82] As other moderators have suggested and recommended sugar, please...if you have addition comments edit your posts and include subsequent messages.
Offline shalom82  
#47 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:23:12 PM(UTC)
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Food really wasn't the discussion here. At that time the Talmidim were eating bread. The P'rushim came up and started asking Yahushua Hamashiach, why he was allowing/or for that matter urging his Talmidim to forsake the teachings of the elders/ancestors.

Yahushua then challenged them and asked why they contradicted and forsook the true Torah in favor of the oral teachings...the mishna.

Mar 7:9 And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of Elohim, in order to guard your tradition.
Mar 7:10 “For Mosheh said, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’
Mar 7:11 “But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me, is Qorban (that is, a gift),” ’
Mar 7:12 you no longer let him do any matter at all for his father or his mother,
Mar 7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do.”

Mat 15:20 “These defile the man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”


Yahushua was speaking to a Jewish audience on the issue of what is true Torah. He did not tell his disciples to eat lobster and pig to challenge the p'rushim and their views on dietary purity. The Yahudim would have considered these things food as much as a person today would consider a tire or a stick of deodorant food. This is not the only example of where Yahushua went out and used his Talmidim as an instrument to provoke the P'rushim in relation to the oral law. The picking of the pods of grain on the Sabbath also comes to mind.

Acts confirms among other things that while Yahushua was on earth he in no way taught that the dietary prohibitions were relegated to the dustbin. Kepha by his own admission was still very much a scriptural gourmand at the time of His revelation on the roof at Yapho. Once again this is not so much about what you eat as it is who you eat with. Kepha was still practicing a cultural snobbishness that was a keystone of Mishna Torah. The reason that all sorts of unclean animals were on the sheet is because Gentiles were known to the Yahudim as contemptible creatures...such as dogs and eagles..for example.
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline sugarman  
#48 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 6:31:34 PM(UTC)
sugarman
Joined: 2/3/2008(UTC)
Posts: 67

shalom82 wrote:
Food really wasn't the discussion here. At that time the Talmidim were eating bread. The P'rushim came up and started asking Yahushua Hamashiach, why he was allowing/or for that matter urging his Talmidim to forsake the teachings of the elders/ancestors.

Yahushua then challenged them and asked why they contradicted and forsook the true Torah in favor of the oral teachings...the mishna.

Mar 7:9 And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of Elohim, in order to guard your tradition.
Mar 7:10 “For Mosheh said, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’
Mar 7:11 “But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me, is Qorban (that is, a gift),” ’
Mar 7:12 you no longer let him do any matter at all for his father or his mother,
Mar 7:13 nullifying the Word of Elohim through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such traditions you do.”

Mat 15:20 “These defile the man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”


Yahushua was speaking to a Jewish audience on the issue of what is true Torah. He did not tell his disciples to eat lobster and pig to challenge the p'rushim and their views on dietary purity. The Yahudim would have considered these things food as much as a person today would consider a tire or a stick of deodorant food. This is not the only example of where Yahushua went out and used his Talmidim as an instrument to provoke the P'rushim in relation to the oral law. The picking of the pods of grain on the Sabbath also comes to mind.

Acts confirms among other things that while Yahushua was on earth he in no way taught that the dietary prohibitions were relegated to the dustbin. Kepha by his own admission was still very much a scriptural gourmand at the time of His revelation on the roof at Yapho. Once again this is not so much about what you eat as it is who you eat with. Kepha was still practicing a cultural snobbishness that was a keystone of Mishna Torah. The reason that all sorts of unclean animals were on the sheet is because Gentiles were known to the Yahudim as contemptible creatures...such as dogs and eagles..for example.



ok I got couple questions what if a believe eats pork today? like me I got disablilty Ican not live on my own and I have to eat what I'm given pretty much.

sometimes its pork and sometimes chicken etc...... of course I can sometime chose to eat something different but that rare in my case.

so am I unclearn because I have to eat ham or pork?


my other question is shrimp etc..... people can God did not consider that food but mine question is is there a verse that says this they are not food.

I always thought something haves to be something at lease to be consider clean or unclean.
Offline shalom82  
#49 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 7:00:25 PM(UTC)
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Lev 11:4 ‘Only, these you do not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have a split hoof: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have a split hoof, it is unclean to you;
Lev 11:5 and the rabbit, because it chews the cud but does not have a split hoof, it is unclean to you;
Lev 11:6 and the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have a split hoof, it is unclean to you;
Lev 11:7 and the pig, though it has a split hoof, completely divided, yet does not chew the cud, it is unclean to you.
Lev 11:8 ‘Their flesh you do not eat, and their carcasses you do not touch. They are unclean to you.
Lev 11:9 ‘These you do eat of all that are in the waters: any one that has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas or in the rivers, that you do eat.
Lev 11:10 ‘But all that have not fins and scales in the seas and in the rivers, all that move in the waters or any living creature which is in the waters, they are an abomination to you.
Lev 11:11 ‘They are an abomination to you – of their flesh you do not eat, and their carcasses you abominate.
Lev 11:12 ‘All that have not fins or scales in the waters is an abomination to you.

Lev 11:13 ‘And these you do abominate among the birds, they are not eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the vulture, and the black vulture,
Lev 11:14 and the hawk, and the falcon after its kind,
Lev 11:15 every raven after its kind,
Lev 11:16 and the ostrich, and the nighthawk, and the seagull, and the hawk after its kind,
Lev 11:17 and the little owl, and the fisher owl, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 and the white owl, and the pelican, and the carrion vulture,
Lev 11:19 and the stork, the heron after its kind, and the hoopoe, and the bat.
Lev 11:20 ‘All flying insects that creep on all fours is an abomination to you.
Lev 11:21 ‘Only, these you do eat of every flying insect that creeps on all fours: those which have jointed legs above their feet with which to leap on the earth.
Lev 11:22 ‘These of them you do eat: the locust after its kind, and the destroying locust after its kind, and the cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind.
Lev 11:23 ‘But all other flying insects which have four feet is an abomination to you.
Lev 11:24 ‘And by these you are made unclean, anyone touching the carcass of any of them is unclean until evening,
Lev 11:25 and anyone picking up part of the carcass of any of them has to wash his garments, and shall be unclean until evening.
Lev 11:26 ‘Every beast that has a split hoof not completely divided, or does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. Anyone who touches their carcass is unclean.
Lev 11:27 ‘And whatever goes on its paws, among all the creatures that go on all fours, those are unclean to you. Anyone who touches their carcass is unclean until evening,
Lev 11:28 and he who picks up their carcass has to wash his garments, and shall be unclean until evening. They are unclean to you.
Lev 11:29 ‘And these are unclean to you among the creeping creatures that creep on the earth: the mole, and the mouse, and the tortoise after its kind,
Lev 11:30 and the gecko, and the land crocodile, and the sand reptile, and the sand lizard, and the chameleon.
Lev 11:31 ‘These are unclean to you among all that creep. Anyone who touches them when they are dead becomes unclean until evening.


I am sorry that you have a disability. May Yahuweh bless you with healing either in this life or the next. The point of the Torah is not so much what you must do to be saved. If you had to rely on observing the Torah to be saved we would all be in deep doo-doo. Yahuweh designed us and knows better than anyone else what benefits us and what harms us. He is giving us His love by recommending what we are to eat. I don't know your circumstances and so I can't speak on how much power you have over your diet. Persevere as your situation allows and requires.

Shalom

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline sugarman  
#50 Posted : Sunday, February 3, 2008 7:22:17 PM(UTC)
sugarman
Joined: 2/3/2008(UTC)
Posts: 67

shalom82 wrote:
Lev 11:4 ‘Only, these you do not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have a split hoof: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have a split hoof, it is unclean to you;
Lev 11:5 and the rabbit, because it chews the cud but does not have a split hoof, it is unclean to you;
Lev 11:6 and the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have a split hoof, it is unclean to you;
Lev 11:7 and the pig, though it has a split hoof, completely divided, yet does not chew the cud, it is unclean to you.
Lev 11:8 ‘Their flesh you do not eat, and their carcasses you do not touch. They are unclean to you.
Lev 11:9 ‘These you do eat of all that are in the waters: any one that has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas or in the rivers, that you do eat.
Lev 11:10 ‘But all that have not fins and scales in the seas and in the rivers, all that move in the waters or any living creature which is in the waters, they are an abomination to you.
Lev 11:11 ‘They are an abomination to you – of their flesh you do not eat, and their carcasses you abominate.
Lev 11:12 ‘All that have not fins or scales in the waters is an abomination to you.

Lev 11:13 ‘And these you do abominate among the birds, they are not eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the vulture, and the black vulture,
Lev 11:14 and the hawk, and the falcon after its kind,
Lev 11:15 every raven after its kind,
Lev 11:16 and the ostrich, and the nighthawk, and the seagull, and the hawk after its kind,
Lev 11:17 and the little owl, and the fisher owl, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 and the white owl, and the pelican, and the carrion vulture,
Lev 11:19 and the stork, the heron after its kind, and the hoopoe, and the bat.
Lev 11:20 ‘All flying insects that creep on all fours is an abomination to you.
Lev 11:21 ‘Only, these you do eat of every flying insect that creeps on all fours: those which have jointed legs above their feet with which to leap on the earth.
Lev 11:22 ‘These of them you do eat: the locust after its kind, and the destroying locust after its kind, and the cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind.
Lev 11:23 ‘But all other flying insects which have four feet is an abomination to you.
Lev 11:24 ‘And by these you are made unclean, anyone touching the carcass of any of them is unclean until evening,
Lev 11:25 and anyone picking up part of the carcass of any of them has to wash his garments, and shall be unclean until evening.
Lev 11:26 ‘Every beast that has a split hoof not completely divided, or does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. Anyone who touches their carcass is unclean.
Lev 11:27 ‘And whatever goes on its paws, among all the creatures that go on all fours, those are unclean to you. Anyone who touches their carcass is unclean until evening,
Lev 11:28 and he who picks up their carcass has to wash his garments, and shall be unclean until evening. They are unclean to you.
Lev 11:29 ‘And these are unclean to you among the creeping creatures that creep on the earth: the mole, and the mouse, and the tortoise after its kind,
Lev 11:30 and the gecko, and the land crocodile, and the sand reptile, and the sand lizard, and the chameleon.
Lev 11:31 ‘These are unclean to you among all that creep. Anyone who touches them when they are dead becomes unclean until evening.


I am sorry that you have a disability. May Yahuweh bless you with healing either in this life or the next. The point of the Torah is not so much what you must do to be saved. If you had to rely on observing the Torah to be saved we would all be in deep doo-doo. Yahuweh designed us and knows better than anyone else what benefits us and what harms us. He is giving us His love by recommending what we are to eat. I don't know your circumstances and so I can't speak on how much power you have over your diet. Persevere as your situation allows and requires.

Shalom





well The only control I have is my bike. I can not drive either I can ride my bike only to couple places that are in decent ratios I"m in

one pizza shop I get buffalo chicken pizza alot.

chinese sweet and sour chicken fried rice


wal-mart

these are the only places that are in bike time I can get to.


But what about the times like I will have no choice to eat pork etc... will I be un-clean if I do?


Oh yeah also sub-way I get terkiaty chicken however you spell that.
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