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Offline dajstill  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 3, 2012 8:44:43 AM(UTC)
dajstill
Joined: 11/23/2011(UTC)
Posts: 748
Location: Alabama

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For those that were Christians, then came to know Yah, did you formally "leave" Christianity?

This is the point my husband and I currently are walking on our journey. A first we thought our growing understanding of Yahowah was going to be a more developed understanding of the "Lord" we met in our Christian walk. However, as we see Pauline doctrine through new eyes and see how a big foundation of Christianity is a rejection of the Torah - we just can't really consider ourselves "Christian".

However, there are some things we are struggling with. For instance, tithing. We have both been tithers since we were teenagers. We don't have the depth of knowledge to really say we understand tithing in relation to the Torah. Do we give 10% to the poor? I am sick to my stomach at the amount we have given, individually and as a couple, in tithe and offering to Christian churches. It would be different if the money had been used to feed the poor, but it wasn't. Some of our old pastors (whose churches we had left years ago) have been in regional and national news for some pretty horrific things (molestation, mortgage scams, extra material affairs) and I am sick that our money helped to finance that stuff. Not to mention buying the pastors expensive cars and mansions (one church literally took up an offering to buy the pastor a Bently - yes, a $300,000 car!) We could have paid off every debt we have and most of our mortgage had we not fed into the coffers of these people. So, we know we shouldn't continue to give into those things; but we would love some direction to scripture that tells us what tithing is really about (is it akin to animal sacrifices where when the Temple was in place those things were active, but without the Temple they aren't).

Another thing - did you ask for your name to be taken off the roll of the last church you held membership, or did you just stop going? I know some people still go to church and that is fine, I just don't know if we can continue. Too much stuff we have to correct for our children every time we leave service that was just getting ridiculous. I had to ask myself if I would continue to let me kids go to a math class if the teachers kept giving out the wrong answers and I had to provide corrects to my children after each and every class! They are much too young to have to deal with the confusion.

I guess maybe we just need a little push, a little support? We were both "good Christians" and had been for a long time. We were raised in Christian homes. Thankfully, my mother left church over 10 years ago and has joined us in our journey in finding Yahowah. However, my inlaws are still very good Christians. Having been ingrained for so long about what "loving God" was really about (meaning paying tithes, attending church, and paying into every offering) we are in need of some serious mind cleansing. Its liberating, but a bit scary as well.

Thanks for any advice.
thanks 1 user thanked dajstill for this useful post.
seeker83 on 6/24/2014(UTC)
Offline highbrow  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 3, 2012 9:06:50 AM(UTC)
highbrow
Joined: 9/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: MT

About the time I found Yada Yahweh, I had figured the was something rotten in religion. Having been raised in protestant churches, mostly Lutheran, Yada Yah opened my eyes. About the same time, my son was going through their conformation classes and was disgusted with the whole thing, so we just quit going. They have some rule about taking you off the rolls of membership if you don't attend for a period of time, so that will take care of itself. Now if I could get my family to read or listen to AITG.
Offline cgb2  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 4, 2012 2:48:50 AM(UTC)
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dajstill wrote:
For those that were Christians, then came to know Yah, did you formally "leave" Christianity?

Not really formally, but slowly as the lies began to crumble and willingness to follow Yah wherever it lead me. Sensed something wrong in institutional church for sometime, and dabbled in a home church. They got tired of me questioning the contradictions and "strife" and eventually come to a head with Hebrews versus Jeremiah 30&31 (Pauls "new covenant") and told them I won;t be coming anymore.
Then more recently I thought I had found a home fellowship on ereb shabbat (start of 7th day - dinner, study, songs). Discovered still religious, and frustrating even conversing - being corrected for saying any english words with pagan roots. A burdensome stone of "keep and obey". Quit going as I pressed and discovered they were twisting the T/P/P to fit Paul, despite my warnings that only ended up in heated discussions, and much of the burdensome stones from applying scripture as if the renewed covenant w/Yishrael had already occured.
dajstill wrote:
This is the point my husband and I currently are walking on our journey. A first we thought our growing understanding of Yahowah was going to be a more developed understanding of the "Lord" we met in our Christian walk. However, as we see Pauline doctrine through new eyes and see how a big foundation of Christianity is a rejection of the Torah - we just can't really consider ourselves "Christian".

Yes, once the lies crumble and you seek Yah no matter what, one can't do anything but conclude that christianity is a counterfeit that needs to be exposed and condemned. Then in wanting to share the joy that comes to knowing Yah, it's like christian freinds and family can really get nasty defending their faith. With the blindness lifted you see T/P/P constantly affirmed in Yahowsha's words too, and wonder why christians can't plainly see it.

dajstill wrote:
However, there are some things we are struggling with. For instance, tithing. We have both been tithers since we were teenagers. We don't have the depth of knowledge to really say we understand tithing in relation to the Torah. Do we give 10% to the poor? I am sick to my stomach at the amount we have given, individually and as a couple, in tithe and offering to Christian churches. It would be different if the money had been used to feed the poor, but it wasn't. Some of our old pastors (whose churches we had left years ago) have been in regional and national news for some pretty horrific things (molestation, mortgage scams, extra material affairs) and I am sick that our money helped to finance that stuff. Not to mention buying the pastors expensive cars and mansions (one church literally took up an offering to buy the pastor a Bently - yes, a $300,000 car!) We could have paid off every debt we have and most of our mortgage had we not fed into the coffers of these people. So, we know we shouldn't continue to give into those things; but we would love some direction to scripture that tells us what tithing is really about (is it akin to animal sacrifices where when the Temple was in place those things were active, but without the Temple they aren't).

Yes, it is disgusting all the money I've wasted paying wolves to decieve me as they twist scripture to giving as they as if they are Lewy (Levite preist). Seems actually charity portion was every 3rd year (Lewy, widows, orphans), and "tithes" were more a cover fee for the parties in Yerushalem (P-UB, 7/7s, Shelters). Also taking care of the widows, orphans and poor that's easy of your excess....a far cry from giving 10% to a religious institution that mostly pays salaries, church mortgage, and spreading deception.

dajstill wrote:
Another thing - did you ask for your name to be taken off the roll of the last church you held membership, or did you just stop going? I know some people still go to church and that is fine, I just don't know if we can continue. Too much stuff we have to correct for our children every time we leave service that was just getting ridiculous. I had to ask myself if I would continue to let me kids go to a math class if the teachers kept giving out the wrong answers and I had to provide corrects to my children after each and every class! They are much too young to have to deal with the confusion.

I doubt I ever was on it. I was totally disgusted when I attended and got a phone call asking me if they could consider me a member...since they had to report members to the state as 501c3 corporation. Ackkk - choose this day who you will serve ;^)

dajstill wrote:
I guess maybe we just need a little push, a little support? We were both "good Christians" and had been for a long time. We were raised in Christian homes. Thankfully, my mother left church over 10 years ago and has joined us in our journey in finding Yahowah. However, my inlaws are still very good Christians. Having been ingrained for so long about what "loving God" was really about (meaning paying tithes, attending church, and paying into every offering) we are in need of some serious mind cleansing. Its liberating, but a bit scary as well.

Thanks for any advice.

Hope this helped. Wish I could go back and raise my kids in the teaching/instruction of Yahowah. Although my wife knows christianity is rotten, I hope she will join me in seeking Yah. My ribid christian parents and sibblings denounce and reject too. Glad I have the fellowship in this forum, but especially the peace and joy from Yahowah.
thanks 2 users thanked cgb2 for this useful post.
seeker83 on 6/24/2014(UTC), graylake on 6/6/2015(UTC)
Offline FredSnell  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 4, 2012 4:44:05 AM(UTC)
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I sure like it, your response, cgb2!!!...I have had the YY show playing in the shop during this Psalms review, and even my sons are listening, some. They have seen my temper diminish so much do to the fact I have stripped religion and politics from my life. Boy this has been wonderful, and I can't thank, Yah, for Dowd, enough. I too now see him as one of the smartest individuals to ever grace the pages of scripture, or any book for that matter.
thanks 1 user thanked FredSnell for this useful post.
JDPowers on 9/15/2015(UTC)
Offline dajstill  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 6, 2012 9:29:38 AM(UTC)
dajstill
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Thank you so much guys, this really helps a lot!
Offline cgb2  
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 2:39:01 AM(UTC)
cgb2
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Here's a word search of "tithes". Deu 14 verses really emphasize as sort of a cover fee for the parties.

H4643
מעשׂרה / מעשׂר / מעשׂר
ma‛ăśêr / ma‛ăśar / ma‛aśrâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 32
tithes, 16
Gen_14:20, Lev_27:31, Num_18:24, Num_18:26, Num_18:28, Deu_12:6, Deu_26:11-12 (2), 2Ch_31:12, Neh_10:37-38 (2), Neh_12:44, Neh_13:5, Amo_4:4, Mal_3:8, Mal_3:10
tithe, 11
Lev_27:30, Lev_27:32, Num_18:26, Deu_12:17, Deu_14:23, Deu_14:28, 2Ch_31:5-6 (3), Neh_10:38, Neh_13:12
tenth, 4
Num_18:21, Num_18:26, Eze_45:11, Eze_45:14
tithing, 1
Deu_26:12

Gen 14:18 And Malkitseḏeq sovereign of Shalĕm brought out bread and wine. Now he was the priest of the Most High Ěl.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Aḇram of the Most High Ěl, Possessor of the heavens and earth.
Gen 14:20 “And blessed be the Most High Ěl who has delivered your enemies into your hand.” And he gave him a tenth of all.

Lev 27:30 ‘And all the tithe of the land – of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree – belongs to יהוה. It is set-apart to יהוה.
Lev 27:31 ‘If a man indeed redeems any of his tithes, he adds one-fifth to it.
Lev 27:32 ‘And the entire tithe of the herd and of the flock, all that passes under the rod, the tenth one is set-apart to יהוה.
Lev 27:33 ‘He does not inquire whether it is good or spoilt, nor does he exchange it. And if he exchanges it at all, then both it and the one exchanged for it are set-apart, it is not redeemed.’ ”

Num 18:24 but the tithes of the children of Yisra’ĕl, which they present as a contribution to יהוה, I have given to the Lĕwites as an inheritance. That is why I have said to them, ‘Among the children of Yisra’ĕl they have no inheritance.’ ”
Num 18:25 And יהוה spoke to Mosheh, saying,
Num 18:26 “Speak to the Lĕwites and say to them, ‘When you take from the children of Yisra’ĕl the tithes which I have given you from them as your inheritance, then you shall present a contribution of it to יהוה, a tenth of the tithe.
Num 18:27 ‘And your contribution shall be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing-floor and as filling from the winepress.
Num 18:28 ‘Thus you also present a contribution unto יהוה from all your tithes which you receive from the children of Yisra’ĕl. And you shall give from it the contribution to יהוה to Aharon the priest.
Num 18:29 ‘From all your gifts you present every contribution due to יהוה, from all the best of them, the set-apart part of them.’
Num 18:30 “And you shall say to them, ‘When you have presented the best of it, then the rest shall be reckoned to the Lĕwites as the yield of the threshing-floor and as the yield of the winepress.
Num 18:31 ‘And you shall eat it in any place, you and your households, for it is your reward for your service in the Tent of Meeting,
Num 18:32 and bear no sin because of it, when you have presented the best of it, and do not profane the set-apart gifts of the children of Yisra’ĕl, lest you die.’ ”

Deu 12:5 but seek the place which יהוה your Elohim chooses, out of all your tribes, to put His Name there, for His Dwelling Place, and there you shall enter.
Deu 12:6 “And there you shall take your burnt offerings, and your offerings, and your tithes, and the contributions of your hand, and your vowed offerings, and your voluntary offerings, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock.
Deu 12:7 “And there you shall eat before יהוה your Elohim, and shall rejoice in all that you put your hand to, you and your households, in which יהוה your Elohim has blessed you.

Deu 14:22 “You shall tithe without fail all the yield of your grain that the field brings forth year by year.
Deu 14:23 “And you shall eat before יהוה your Elohim, in the place where He chooses to make His Name dwell, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, and of the firstlings of your herds and your sheep, so that you learn to fear יהוה your Elohim always.
Deu 14:24 “But when the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to bring the tithe, or when the place where יהוה your Elohim chooses to put His Name is too far from you, when יהוה your Elohim is blessing you,
Deu 14:25 then you shall give it in silver, and shall take the silver in your hand and go to the place which יהוה your Elohim chooses.
Deu 14:26 “And you shall use the silver for whatever your being desires: for cattle or sheep, for wine or strong drink, for whatever your being desires. And you shall eat there before יהוה your Elohim, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.
Deu 14:27 “And do not forsake the Lĕwite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.
Deu 14:28 “At the end of every third year you bring out all the tithe of your increase of that year and store it up within your gates.
Deu 14:29 “And the Lĕwite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the sojourner and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, shall come and eat and be satisfied, so that יהוה your Elohim does bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.

Deu 26:11 and shall rejoice in all the good which יהוה your Elohim has given to you and your house, you and the Lĕwite and the stranger who is among you.
Deu 26:12 “When you have completed tithing all the tithe of your increase in the third year, which is the year of tithing, and have given it to the Lĕwite, to the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, and they have eaten within your gates and have been satisfied,
Deu 26:13 then you shall say before יהוה your Elohim, ‘I have put away the set-apart portion from my house, and also have given it to the Lĕwite, and to the stranger, and to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all Your command which You have commanded me. I have not transgressed Your commands, nor have I forgotten.

thanks 1 user thanked cgb2 for this useful post.
graylake on 6/6/2015(UTC)
Offline FredSnell  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 6:08:52 AM(UTC)
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highbrow wrote:
About the time I found Yada Yahweh, I had figured the was something rotten in religion. Having been raised in protestant churches, mostly Lutheran, Yada Yah opened my eyes. About the same time, my son was going through their conformation classes and was disgusted with the whole thing, so we just quit going. They have some rule about taking you off the rolls of membership if you don't attend for a period of time, so that will take care of itself. Now if I could get my family to read or listen to AITG.


Best to you. Keep seeking and Yah will make known just as much as you can handle. His ways are easy for those that know His path and come to love Him and His promise.

I have been out of pocket do to circumstances beyond my control, but I thank, Yah for the strength.
Offline dajstill  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 3:17:38 AM(UTC)
dajstill
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cgb2 - thanks so much for the post on tithing - it really helped and ton. It makes so much sense! It is amazing how easy Yahowah is to understand when translations are pure. Thanks again!

encounterHim - will definitely lift you up to Yah in prayer for added strength!
Offline cgb2  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 1:25:46 PM(UTC)
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dajstill wrote:
cgb2 - thanks so much for the post on tithing - it really helped and ton. It makes so much sense! It is amazing how easy Yahowah is to understand when translations are pure. Thanks again!


I wouldn't call ISR 1998 or 2007 "pure" or accurate, but certainly an improvement over "the LORD" rubbish. Plus it's fast and easy to search in Esword.

Edited by user Monday, January 16, 2012 1:47:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline cgb2  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 1:44:00 PM(UTC)
cgb2
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Here's an example of the only verses cited that I could find amplified. In this case seems fairly accurate, although there's seemingly tons of metaphors when examining the roots :)
cgb2 wrote:
ISR 1998
Gen 14:18 And Malkitseḏeq sovereign of Shalĕm brought out bread and wine. Now he was the priest of the Most High Ěl.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him and said, “Blessed be Aḇram of the Most High Ěl, Possessor of the heavens and earth.
Gen 14:20 “And blessed be the Most High Ěl who has delivered your enemies into your hand.” And he gave him a tenth of all.


JB's Translation:
18-20And Malki-tsedeq (malki-tsedeq – King of righteousness, from malak king, and tsedeq righteousness, vindication, justice, uprightness, that which is in accordance with the standard) King (malak – governmental head of a kingdom, often in ancient government the king embodied political, social, religious, and military authority) of Salem (shalem – salvation, that which completes and finishes, rendering the payment in full; that which brings peace, prosperity, and well-being; that which represents a voluntary sacrifice to requite so as to repay the debt, returning and reestablishing the alliance of friendship; that which perfects and makes whole, rendering the beneficiary unharmed and at peace; that which provides compensation, recompensing damage incurred; that which restores, makes amends, and reinstitutes the fellowship) brought forth (yatsa’ - delivered and produced) bread (lechem) and wine (yayin - naturally processed, fermented grape juice, in excess amounts can cause drunkenness), and he was a Kohen (kohen – priest, cleric or minister) to God Most High (el-elyon - a title for the true God with a focus on him being supreme, and shows high status), and blessed him (barak - knelt down to greet him and lift him up), saying (‘amar), ‘Blessed (barak) be ‘Abram, to God Most High (el-elyon - a title for the true God with a focus on him being supreme, and shows high status), creator (qanah – on who brought forth, as in giving birth, one who owns, one who has purchased, posses and has acquired) of the spiritual world (samayim - the heavens, and the abode of stars) and the material realm (`erets - matter, the physical and natural world). And Blessed (barak) be God Most High (el-elyon - a title for the true God with a focus on him being supreme, and shows high status) who relationally (asher) delivered (magan – handed over, bestowed, and presented) your enemies (tsar – foes, adversaries, and opponents) into your hands (yad - a metaphor for individual power, control, care, capacity, and strength), and give (nathan – set, commit, entrust, deliver, and bestow in a healthy and enduring fashion) to Him a tenth (maasrah - the setting aside a tenth of goods or money given as a gift or offering) from all (kol).’

Edited by user Monday, January 16, 2012 1:59:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline FredSnell  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:51:09 AM(UTC)
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dajstill wrote:
encounterHim - will definitely lift you up to Yah in prayer for added strength!


Thank you, dajstill. When we radiate Yahs Light, we find those obstacles in life that cause those to stumble, should be used to strengthen our love for Yahs Word. Restoring His path and lifting us. The more of this backwards world I endure, the stronger I try to observe what my Father says. I find safety and refuge there.
Offline graylake  
#12 Posted : Saturday, June 6, 2015 4:00:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cgb2 Go to Quoted Post
Here's a word search of "tithes". Deu 14 verses really emphasize as sort of a cover fee for the parties.

H4643
מעשׂרה / מעשׂר / מעשׂר
ma‛ăśêr / ma‛ăśar / ma‛aśrâh
Total KJV Occurrences: 32
tithes, 16


This was one of the most difficult areas for me to understand in the Torah. Thanks for this recent post.BigGrin
Shamar Emet - (to carefully observe, closely examine, thoughtfully consider truth) - In The Beginning 17:9 & Songs 119:142
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