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Offline In His Name  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 10, 2011 9:39:10 AM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Rev Chapter 17
1 And one of the seven cherubs having the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying to me, Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on the many waters(gentiles),
2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication(finance/politics/religion/culture), and the ones inhabiting the earth became drunk from the wine of her fornication (finance/politics/religion /culture).
3 And he carried me away into a desert, by the Spirit. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, filled with names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns(7 government types and 10 leaders).
4 And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and being gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominations and unclean things of her fornication (finance/politics/religion/culture).
5 And on her forehead was a name having been written: Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth.
6 And I saw the woman being drunk from the blood of the saints, and from the blood of the martyrs of Yahshua. And I marveled, seeing her, with a great marveling.
7 And the cherub said to me, Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast supporting her, the one having the seven heads and the ten horns.
8 The beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to be destroyed. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing the beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet now is. (those dwelling on the earth at this timee are not in the Book of Life)
9 Here is the mind having wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains, where the woman sits on them.
10 And the kings are seven. The five fell, and the one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he does come, he must remain a little. (Five are past world government systems, the sixth is the current world empire (the “West”?) and the seventh will be the AC)
11 And the beast which was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
12 And the ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. (tied to v10, the ten are a NEW world government, that ascends with the beast)
13 These have one mind, and their power and authority they shall give up to the beast. (one mind? Does that sound like today’s governments?)
14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Master of Masters and King of kings, and the ones with Him are the called and chosen and faithful ones.
15 And he says to me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, and will make her desolated and naked. And they will eat her flesh, and will burn her down with fire.
17 For Elohim gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act in one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the Words of Elohim shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman whom you saw is the great city, having dominion over the kings of the earth.

The great harlot, Babylon sits on the many gentile nations. The kings of the earth and the people of the kings are caught up in her fornication which includes the financial, political and religious institutions created by man as well as the immoral culture we are inclined to without Yah’s guiding spirit. Who are these gentiles?

As I see it there are 3 choices. The West, Islam or Communism. Looking at VS 4,5,6, I think a case could be made for each choice, But v10 closes the discussion for me, The West can easily be seen as a continuation of Rome politically, religiously and financially. And it was in power when John wrote these verses through today.

I have always viewed the next step (the seventh head/government)as a morphing or evolution of the “West”. But verses 13,15,16,17, speak of an internal overthrow of the “West” by it’s people, who hate the harlot and will tear down their governments and hand them to the beast.

Now let’s bring this all into context for today. Arab spring, not the people or nations I chose but perhaps a related phenomenon; Riots in Great Britain and Europe over the failure of the government; and finally from right at home, THESE HAVE ONE MIND – THESE WILL HATE THE HARLOT (FINANCIAL /POLITICAL/ RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS) – AND WILL GIVE THEIR KINGDOM TO THE BEAST, I give you this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI

“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline FredSnell  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 10, 2011 7:47:29 PM(UTC)
FredSnell
Joined: 1/29/2011(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Houston, Texas

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Gonna be long, and excuse the few times the author, I think is just wrong, but I do believe He does get much right with his look into Rev 17


Who is the
Woman Who Rides The Beast"A Woman Rides The Beast" by prophecy researcher Dave Hunt.


in Revelation 17?

A City on Seven Hills

A woman rides the beast, and that woman is a city built on seven hills that reigns over the kings of the earth! Was ever in all of history such a statement made? John immediately equates the readers' acceptance of this revelation with "wisdom." We dare not pass over such a disclosure casually. It merits our careful and prayerful attention.

Here is no mystical or allegorical language but an unambiguous statement in plain words: "The woman ... is that great city." There is no justification for seeking some other hidden meaning. Yet books have been written and sermons preached insisting that "Mystery Babylon" is the United States. That is clearly not the case, for the United States is a country, not a city. One might justifiably refer to the United States as Sodom, considering the honor now given to homosexuals, but it is definitely not the Babylon that John sees in this vision. The woman is a city.

Furthermore, she is a city built on seven hills. That specification eliminates ancient Babylon. Only one city has for more than 2000 years been known as the city on seven hills. That city is Rome. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined."1

There are, of course, other cities, such as Rio de Janeiro, that were also built on seven hills. Therefore, John provides at least seven more characteristics to limit the identification to Rome alone. We will examine each one in detail in subsequent chapters. However, as a preview of where we are going, we will list them now and discuss each one briefly. As we shall see, there is only one city on the earth which, in both historical and contemporary perspectives, passes every test John gives, including its identification as Mystery Babylon. That city is Rome, and more specifically, Vatican City.

Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter's statement "The church here in Babylon ... sends you her greeting" (from I Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further:

"Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18 and in extrabiblical works such as Sibylling Oracles (5, 159f.), the Apocalypse of Baruch (ii, 1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).
Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that "it is said that Peter's first epistle... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon."2
As for "Mystery," that name imprinted on the woman's forehead is the perfect designation for Vatican City. Mystery is at the very heart of Roman Catholicism, from the words "Mysterium fide" pronounced at the alleged transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ to the enigmatic apparitions of Mary around the world. Every sacrament, from baptism to extreme unction, manifests the mysterious power which the faithful must believe the priests wield, but for which there is no visible evidence. Rome's new Catechism explains that liturgy "aims to initiate souls into the mystery of Christ (It is 'mystagogy.')" and that all of the Church's liturgy is "mystery."3

Who Is the Whore?

The first thing we are told about the woman is that she is a "whore" (Revelation 17:1), that earthly kings "have committed fornication" with her (verse 2), and that "all the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (verse 3). Why would a city be called a whore and be accused of having committed fornication with kings? Such an indictment would never be made of London or Moscow or Paris—or any other ordinary city. It wouldn't make sense.

Fornication and adultery are used in the Bible in both the physical and the spiritual sense. Of Jerusalem God said, "How is the faithful city become a harlot!" (Isaiah 1:21). Israel, whom God had set apart from all other peoples to be holy for His purposes, had entered into unholy, adulterous alliances with the idol-worshiping nations about her. She had "committed adultery with stones and with stocks [idols]" (Jeremiah 3:9); "and with their idols have they committed adultery" (Ezekiel 23:37). The entire chapter of Ezekiel 16 explains lsrael's spiritual adultery in detail, both with heathen nations and with their false gods, as do many other passages.

There is no way that a city could engage in literal, fleshly fornication. Thus we can only conclude that John, like the prophets in the Old Testament, is using the term in its spiritual sense. The city, therefore, must claim a spiritual relationship with God. Otherwise such an allegation would be meaningless.

Though it is built on seven hills, there would be no reason to accuse Rio de Janeiro of spiritual fornication. It makes no claim of having a special relationship with God. And though Jerusalem has that relationship, it cannot be the woman riding on the beast, for it is not built on seven hills. Nor does it meet the other criteria by which this woman is to be identified.

Against only one other city in history could a charge of fornication be leveled. That city is Rome, and more specifically Vatican City. She claims to have been the worldwide headquarters of Christianity since its beginning and maintains that claim to this day. Her pope enthroned in Rome claims to be the exclusive representative of God, the vicar of Christ. Rome is the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, and in that too she is unique.

Numerous churches, of course, are headquartered in cities, but only one city is the headquarters of a church. The Mormon Church, for example, is headquartered in Salt Lake City, but there is much more to Salt Lake City than the Mormon Church. Not so with Vatican City. It is the heartbeat of the Roman Catholic Church and nothing else. She is a spiritual entity that could very well be accused of spiritual fornication if she did not remain true to Christ.

In Bed with the Rulers

Not only does Rome's pope call himself the vicar of Christ, but the Church he heads claims to be the one true Church and the bride of Christ. Christ's bride, whose hope is to join her Bridegroom in heaven, is to have no earthly ambitions. Yet the Vatican is obsessed with earthly enterprise, as history proves; and in furtherance of these goals it has been, exactly as John foresaw in his vision, engaged in adulterous relationships with the kings of the earth. That fact is acknowledged even by Catholic historians.

Christ said to His disciples, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19). The Catholic Church, however, is very much of this world. Her popes have built an unrivaled worldwide empire of property, wealth, and influence. Nor is empire-building an abandoned feature of the past. We have already seen that Vatican II clearly states that the Roman Catholic Church today still ceaselessly seeks to bring under its control all mankind and all their goods.

Popes have long claimed dominion over the world and its peoples. Pope Gregory XIs papal bull of 1372 (In Coena Domini) claimed papal dominion over the entire Christian world, secular and religious, and excommunicated all who failed to obey the popes and to pay them taxes. In Coena was confirmed by subsequent popes and in 1568 Pope Pius V swore that it was to remain an eternal law.

Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503) claimed that all undiscovered lands belonged to the Roman Pontiff, for him to dispose of as he pleased in the name of Christ as His vicar. King John II of Portugal was convinced that in his Bull Romanus Pontifex the pope had granted all that Columbus discovered exclusively to him and his country. Ferdinand and Isabel of Spain, however, thought the pope had given the same lands to them. In May 1493 the Spanish-born Alexander VI issued three bulls to settle the dispute.

In the name of Christ, who had no place on this earth that He called his own, this incredibly evil Borgia pope, claiming to own the world, drew a north-south line down the global map of that day, giving everything on the east to Portugal and on the west to Spain. Thus by papal grant, "out of the plenitude of apostolic power," Africa went to Portugal and the Americas to Spain. When Portugal "succeeded in reaching India and Malaya, they secured the confirmation of these discoveries from the Papacy..." There was a condition, of course: "to the intent to bring the inhabitants ... to profess the Catholic Faith."4 It Was largely Central and South America which, as a consequence of this unholy alliance between church and state, had Roman Catholicism forced upon them by the sword and remain Catholic to this day. North America (with the exception of Quebec and Louisiana) was spared the dominance of Roman Catholicism because it was settled largely by Protestants.

Nor have the descendants of Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas forgotten that Roman Catholic priests, backed by the secular sword, gave their ancestors the choice of conversion (which often meant slavery) or death. They made such an outcry when John Paul II in a recent visit to Latin America proposed elevating Junipero Serra (a major eighteenth-century enforcer of Catholicism among the Indians) to sainthood that the pope was forced to hold the ceremony in secret.

Christ said, "My kingdom is not of this world; otherwise my servants would fight." The popes, however, have fought with armies and navies in the name of Christ to build a huge kingdom which is very much of this world. And to amass their earthly empire they have repeatedly engaged in spiritual fornication with emperors, kings, and princes. Claiming to be the bride of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church has been in bed with godless rulers down through history, and these adulterous relationships continue to this day. This spiritual fornication will be documented in detail later.

Rome Equals Vatican

Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known as Vatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a "great city." Though both objections are true, the words "Vatican" and "Rome" are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

Take for example a placard carried by a demonstrator outside the November 15-18, 1993, meeting in Washington D.C. of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Protesting any deviation from the pope's wishes, it read: "ROME'S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY."5 0bviously by "Rome" it meant the Vatican. Such is the common usage, So closely are Catholicism and Rome linked that the Catholic Church is known as the Roman Catholic Church, or simply the Roman Church.

Moreover, for more than a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church exercised both religious and civil control over the entire city of Rome and its surroundings. Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) abolished the secular Roman Senate and placed the administration of Rome directly under his command. The Roman Senate that had governed the city under the Caesars had been known as the Curia Romana (Roman Curia). That name, according to the Pocket Catholic Dictionary, is now the designation of "the whole ensemble of administrative and judicial offices through which the Pope directs the operations of the Catholic Church.6

The popes' authority even extended to large territories outside Rome acquired in the eighth century. At that time, with the help of a deliberately fraudulent document manufactured for the popes known as The Donation of Constantine, Pope Stephen III convinced Pepin, king of the Franks and father of Charlemagne, that territories recently taken by the Lombards from the Byzantines actually had been given to the papacy by the Emperor Constantine. Pepin routed the Lombards and handed to the pope the keys to some 20 cities (Ravenna, Ancona, Bologna, Ferrara, lesi, Gubbio, etc.) and the huge chunk of land joining them along the Adriatic coast.

Dated 30 March 315, The Donation declared that Constantine had given these lands, along with Rome and the Lateran Palace, to the popes in perpetuity. In 1440 this document was proven to be a forgery by Lorenzo Valla, a papal aide, and is so recognized by historians today. Yet allegedly infallible popes continued for centuries to assert that The Donation was genuine and on that basis to justify their pomp, power, and possessions. That fraud is still perpetuated by an inscription in the baptistry of Rome's St. John Lateran, which has never been corrected.

Thus the Papal States were literally stolen by the popes from their rightful owners. The papacy controlled and taxed these territories and derived great wealth from them until 1848. At that time the pope, along with the rulers of most of the other divided territories of Italy, was forced to grant his rebellious subjects a constitution. In September 1860, over his raging protests, Pius IX lost all of the papal states to the new, finally united Kingdom of Italy, which left him, at the time of the First Vatican Council in 1870, still in control of Rome and its surroundings.

The point is that, exactly as John foresaw in his vision, a spiritual entity that claimed a special relationship with Christ and with God became identified with a city that was built on seven hills. That "woman" committed spiritual fornication with earthly rulers and eventually reigned over them. The Roman Catholic Church has been continuously identified with that city. As "The most definitive Catholic encyclopedia since Vatican II" declares:

...hence, one understands the central place of Rome in the life of the Church today and the significance of the title, Roman Catholic Church, the Church that is universal, yet focused upon the ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Since the founding of the Church there by St. Peter, Rome has been the center of all Christendom.7

Wealth from III-Gotten Gain

The incredible wealth of this woman caught John's attention next. She was dressed "in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (Revelation 17:4). The colors of purple and scarlet once again identify the woman with both pagan and Christian Rome. These were the colors of the Roman caesars with which the soldiers mockingly robed Christ as "King" (see Matthew 27:28 and John 19:2,5), which the Vatican took to itself. The woman's colors are literally still the colors of the Catholic clergy! The same Catholic Encyclopedia quoted above states:

Capps Magna
A cloak with a long train and a hooded shoulder cape ... [it] was purple wool for bishops; for cardinals, it was scarlet watered silk (for Advent, Lent, Good Friday, and the conclave, purple wool); and rose watered silk for Gaudete and Lactate Sundays; and for the pope, it was red velvet for Christmas Matins, red serge at other times.
Cassock (also Soutane)
The close-fitting, ankle-length robe worn by the Catholic clergy as their official garb.... The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet .... 8

The "golden cup [chalice] in her hand" again identifies the woman with the Roman Catholic Church. Broderick's edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia declares of the chalice: "[It is] the most important of the sacred vessels.... [It] may be of gold or silver, and if the latter, then the inside must be surfaced with gold."9 The Roman Catholic Church possesses many thousands of solid gold chalices kept in its churches around the world. Even the bloodstained cross of Christ has been turned to gold and studded with gems in reflection of Rome's great wealth. The Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The pectoral cross [suspended by a chain around the neck and worn over the breast by abbots, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and the pope] should be made of gold and ... decorated with gems ...10

Rome has practiced evil to gather her wealth, for the "golden cup" is filled with "abominations and filthiness." Much of the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church was acquired through the confiscation of the property of the pitiful victims of the Inquisitions. Even the dead were exhumed to face trial and property was taken from their heirs by the Church. One historian writes:

The punishments of the lnquisition did not cease when the victim was burned to ashes, or immured for life in the Inquisition dungeons. His relatives were reduced to beggary by the law that all his possessions were forfeited. The system offered unlimited opportunities for loot....
This source of gain largely accounts for the revolting practice of what has been called "corpse-trials."... That the practice of confiscating the property of condemned heretics was productive of many acts of extortion, rapacity and corruption will be doubted by no one who has any knowledge either of human nature or of the historical documents.... no man was safe whose wealth might arouse cupidity, or whose independence might provoke revenge. 11
Most of Rome's wealth has been acquired through the sale of salvation. Untold billions of dollars have been paid to her by those who thought they were purchasing heaven on the installment plan for themselves or loved ones. The practice continues to this day — blatantly where Catholicism is in control, less obviously here in the United States. No greater deception or abomination could be perpetrated. When Cardinal Cajetan, sixteenth-century Dominican scholar, complained about the sale of dispensations and indulgences, the Church hierarchy was indignant and accused him of wanting "to turn Rome into an uninhabited desert, to reduce the Papacy to impotence, to deprive the pope... of the pecuniary resources indispensable for the discharge of his office." 12

In addition to such perversions of the gospel which have led hundreds of millions astray, there are the further abominations of corrupt banking practices, laundering of drug money, trading in counterfeit securities, and dealings with the Mafia (fully documented in police and court records), which the Vatican and her representatives around the world have long employed. Nino Lo Bello, former Business Week correspondent in Rome and Rome bureau chief for New York Journal of Commerce, writes that the Vatican is so closely allied with the Mafia in Italy that "many people ... believe that Sicily ... is nothing more than a Vatican holding." 13

The Roman Catholic Church is by far the wealthiest institution on earth. Yes, one hears from Rome periodic pleas for money-persuasive appeals claiming that the Vatican cannot maintain itself on its limited budget and needs monetary assistance. Such pleas are unconscionable ploys. The value of innumerable sculptures by such masters as Michelangelo, paintings by the world's greatest artists, and countless other art treasures and ancient documents which Rome possesses (not only at the Vatican but in cathedrals around the world) is beyond calculation. At the World Synod of Bishops in Rome, England's Cardinal Heenan proposed that the Church sell some of these superfluous treasures and give the proceeds to the poor. His suggestion was not well-received.

Christ and His disciples lived in poverty. He told His followers not to lay up treasure on this earth but in heaven. The Roman Catholic Church has disobeyed that command and has accumulated a plethora of riches without equal, of which "the Roman Pontiff is the supreme administrator and steward.... 14 There is no church, no city which is a spiritual entity, no religious institution past or present which even comes close to possessing the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church. A recent newspaper article described only a fraction of that treasure at one location:

The fabulous treasure of Lourdes (France], whose existence was kept secret by the Catholic Church for 120 years, has been unveiled.... Rumours have been circulating for decades about a priceless collection of gold chalices, diamond-studded crucifixes [a far cry from the bloodstained cross on which Christ died], silver and precious stones donated by grateful pilgrims.
After an indiscreet remark by their press spokesman this week, church authorities agreed to reveal part of the collection ... [some] floor-to-ceiling cases were opened to reveal 59 solid gold chalices alongside rings, crucifixes, statues and heavy gold brooches, many encrusted with precious stones.
Almost hidden by the other treasures is the "Crown" of Notre Dame de Lourdes, made by a Paris goldsmith in 1876 and studded with diamonds.
Church authorities say they cannot put a value on the collection. "I have no idea," says Father Pierre-Marie Charriez, director of Patrimony and Sanctuaries. "it is of inestimable value."...
Across the road is a building housing hundreds of [antique] ecclesiastical garments, robes, mitres and sashes — many in heavy gold thread....
"The Church itself is poor," insists Father Charriez. "The Vatican itself is poor." 15 [The treasure described here is only part of that which is kept in one location, the small town of Lourdes, France!]
The Mother of Harlots and Abominations

The more deeply one probes into the history of the Roman Catholic Church and its current practices, the more impressed one becomes with the amazing accuracy of the vision John received centuries before it would all be lamentable reality. John's attention is drawn to the inscription boldly emblazoned upon the woman's forehead: "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5). Sadly enough, the Roman Catholic Church fits the description "mother of harlots and abominations" as precisely as she fits the others. Much of the cause can be traced to the unbiblical demand that her priests be celibates.

The great apostle Paul was a celibate and recommended that life to others who wanted to devote themselves fully to serving Christ. He did not, however, make it a condition for church leadership as the Catholic Church has done, thereby imposing an unnatural burden upon all clergy that very few could bear. On the contrary, he wrote that a bishop should be "the husband of one wife" (I Timothy 3:2) and set the same requirement for elders (Titus 1:5,6).

Peter, whom the Catholics erroneously claim was the first pope, was married. So were at least some of the other apostles. This fact was not the chance result of their having been married before Christ called them, but it was accepted as an ongoing norm. Paul himself argued that he had the right to marry like the rest: "Have we not power [Greek exousia, the right or privilege or authority] to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles and as the brethren [half-brothers, sons of Mary and Joseph] of the Lord, and as Cephas [Peter]?" (I Corinthians 9:5).

The Roman Catholic Church, however, has insisted upon celibacy even though many Popes, among them Sergius III (904-11), John X (914-28), John XII (955-63), Benedict V (964), Innocent VIII (1484-92), Urban VIII (1623-44), and Innocent X (1644-55), as well as millions of cardinals, bishops, archbishops, monks, and priests throughout history, have repeatedly violated such vows. Not only has celibacy made sinners of the clergy who engage in fornication, but it makes harlots out of those with whom they secretly cohabit. Rome is indeed "the mother of harlots"! Her identification as such is unmistakable. No other city, church, or institution in the history of the world is her rival in this particular evil.

History is replete with sayings that mocked the church's false claim to celibacy and revealed the truth: "The holiest hermit has his whore" and "Rome has more prostitutes than any other city because she has the most celibates" are examples. Pius II declared that Rome was "the only city run by bastards" [sons of popes and cardinals]. Catholic historian and former Jesuit Peter de Rosa writes:

Popes had mistresses of fifteen years of age, were guilty of incest and sexual perversions of every sort, had innumerable children, were murdered in the very act of adultery [by jealous husbands who found them in bed with their wives].... In the old Catholic phrase, why be holier than the pope? 16

As for abominations, even Catholic historians admit that among the popes were some of the most degenerate and unconscionable ogres in all of history. Their numerous outrageous crimes, many of which are almost beyond belief, have been recited by many historians from preserved documents that reveal the depths of papal depravity, some of which we will cover in later chapters. To call any of these men "His Holiness, Vicar of Christ" makes a mockery of holiness and of Christ. Yet the name of each one of these unbelievably wicked popes, mass murderers, fornicators, robbers, warmongers, some guilty of the massacre of thousands - is emblazoned in honor on the Church's official list of popes. These abominations that John foresaw not only occurred in the past but continue to this very day, as we shall see.

Drunk with the Martyrs' Blood

John next notices that the woman is drunk — and not with an alcoholic beverage. She is drunk with "the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus..." (Revelation 17:6). The picture is a horrible one. It is not merely her hands that are red with this blood, but she is drunk with it! The slaughter of innocents who, for conscience' sake, would not yield to her totalitarian demands has so refreshed and exhilarated her that she reels in ecstasy.

One thinks immediately of the Inquisitions (Roman, Medieval, and Spanish) which for centuries held Europe in their terrible grip. In his History of the Inquisition, Canon Llorente, who was the Secretary to the Inquisition in Madrid from 1790-92 and had access to the archives of all the tribunals, estimated that in Spain alone the number of condemned exceeded 3 million, with about 300,000 burned at the stake. 17 A Catholic historian comments upon events leading up to the suppression of the Spanish Inquisition in 1809:

When Napoleon conquered Spain in 1808, a Polish officer in his army, Colonel Lemanouski, reported that the Dominicans [in charge of the Inquisition] blockaded themselves in their monastery in Madrid. When Lemanouski's troops forced an entry, the inquisitors denied the existence of any torture chambers.
The soldiers searched the monastery and discovered them under the floors. The chambers were full of prisoners, all naked, many insane. The French troops, used to cruelty and blood, could not stomach the sight. They emptied the torture-chambers, laid gunpowder to the monastery and blew the place up. 18

To wring out confessions from these poor creatures, the Roman Catholic Church devised ingenious tortures so excruciating and barbarous that one is sickened by their recital. Church historian Bishop William Shaw Kerr writes:

The most ghastly abomination of all was the system of torture. The accounts of its cold-blooded operations make one shudder at the capacity of human beings for cruelty. And it was decreed and regulated by the popes who claim to represent Christ on earth....

Careful notes were taken not only of all that was confessed by the victim, but of his shrieks, cries, lamentations, broken interjections and appeals for mercy. The most moving things in the literature of the Inquisition are not the accounts of their sufferings left by the victims but the sober memoranda kept by the officers of the tribunals. We are distressed and horrified just because there is no intention to shock us. 19


The remnants of some of the chambers of horror remain in Europe and may be visited today. They stand as memorials to the zealous outworking of Roman Catholic dogmas which remain in force today, and to a Church which claims to be infallible and to this day justifies such barbarism. They are also memorials to the astonishing accuracy of John's vision in Revelation 17. In a book published in Spain in 1909, Emelio Martinez writes:

To these three million victims [documented by Llorente] should be added the thousands upon thousands of Jews and Moors deported from their homeland.... In just one year, 1481, and just in Seville, the Holy Office [of the Inquisition] burned 2000 persons; the bones and effigies of another 2000 ... and another 16,000 were condemned to varying sentences.20

Peter de Rosa acknowledges that his own Catholic Church "was responsible for persecuting Jews, for the Inquisition, for slaughtering heretics by the thousand, for reintroducing torture into Europe as part of the judicial process." Yet the Roman Catholic Church has never officially admitted that these practices were evil, nor has she apologized to the world or to any of the victims or their descendants. Nor could Pope John Paul II apologize today because "the doctrines responsible for those terrible things still underpin his position." 21 Rome has not changed at heart no matter what sweet words she speaks when it serves her purpose.

More Blood Than the Pagans

Pagan Rome made sport of throwing to the lions, burning and otherwise killing thousands of Christians and not a few Jews. Yet "Christian" Rome slaughtered many times that number of both Christians and Jews. Beside those victims of the Inquisition, there were Huguenots, Albigenses, Waldenses, and other Christians who were massacred, tortured, and burned at the stake by the hundreds of thousands simply because they refused to align themselves with the Roman Catholic Church and its corruption and heretical dogmas and practices. Out of conscience they tried to follow the teachings of Christ and the apostles independent of Rome, and for that crime they were maligned, hunted, imprisoned, tortured, and slain.

Why would Rome ever apologize for or even admit this holocaust? No one calls her to account today. Protestants have now forgotten the hundreds of thousands of people burned at the stake for embracing the simple gospel of Christ and refusing to bow to papal authority. Amazingly, Protestants are now embracing Rome as Christian while she insists that the "separated brethren" be reconciled to her on her unchangeable terms!

Many evangelical leaders are intent upon working with Roman Catholics to evangelize the world by the year 2000. They don't want to hear any "negative" reminders of the millions of people tortured and slain by the Church to which they now pay homage, or the fact that Rome has a false gospel of sacramental works.

"Christian" Rome slaughtered Jews by the thousands —far more than pagan Rome ever did. The land of Israel was seen as belonging to the Roman Catholic Church, not to the Jews. In 1096 Pope Urban II inspired the first crusade to retake Jerusalem from the Muslims. With the cross on their shields and armor, the Crusaders massacred Jews across Europe on their way to the Holy Land. Almost their first act upon taking Jerusalem "for Holy Mother Church" was to herd all of the Jews into the synagogue and set it ablaze. These facts of history cannot be swept under the carpet of ecumenical togetherness as though they never happened.

Nor can the Vatican escape considerable responsibility for the Nazi Holocaust, which was thoroughly known to Pius XII in spite of his complete silence throughout the war on that most important of subjects. 22 The involvement of Catholicism in the Holocaust will be examined later. Had the pope protested, as representatives of Jewish organizations and the Allied Powers begged him to do, he would have condemned his own church. The facts are inescapable:

In 1936, Bishop Berning of Osnabruch had talked with the Fuehrer for over an hour. Hitler assured his lordship there was no fundamental difference between National Socialism and the Catholic Church. Had not the church, he argued, looked on Jews as parasites and shut them in ghettos?
"I am only doing," he boasted, "what the church has done for fifteen hundred years, only more effectively."...
Offline Steve in PA  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:44:07 AM(UTC)
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bastids ...!
Offline FredSnell  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:34:13 AM(UTC)
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eh steve wrote:
bastids ...!


I hear you, brother. Steve, that page is only the tip of that iceberg. It goes so deep, that I, personnally could chase these guys forever and never realize all the decption that's taken place in the short time, I have known, just who my Father actually is.
And any of us get there through our efforts in searching for Him. Praise Yah!

I wouldn't waste the time I did here bc you would never finish what was started long ago, but it does do a good job in exposing their crimes against our Father.

http://one-evil.org/default.asp
Offline Richard  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:00:37 AM(UTC)
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Wow, eH. Why even look at those sites, bro? I look at it and immediately see that its focus is not on our heavenly Father or His Word, and I just close the tab and move on. I just won't waste my time with their opinions (most of the time).

By the way, what were you quoting up there in that long post? I missed the source somehow.
Offline FredSnell  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:52:55 AM(UTC)
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flintface wrote:
Wow, eH. Why even look at those sites, bro? I look at it and immediately see that its focus is not on our heavenly Father or His Word, and I just close the tab and move on. I just won't waste my time with their opinions (most of the time).

By the way, what were you quoting up there in that long post? I missed the source somehow.
"A Woman Rides The Beast" by prophecy researcher Dave Hunt


Bro!!..I thought I was the most evil person that ever lived. How would I find out, that I was nowhere near being evil...I know how crappy a site it is, but once our eyes are opened to the truth, what better way to expose the lies than reading about them. I guess I could rely on the yy show every day, but then how would I know that guy, Yada, does his homework without checking on him also. I talk alot about keeping my Father first in all things, good or bad, He's with me as I slog through the swamp of their iniquities and expose their deceptions. I rejoice evermore!...One of these days, brother, one of these days!
Offline cgb2  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:25:04 PM(UTC)
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Rev 6:9 And when He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the beings of those having been slain for the Word of Elohim and for the witness which they held,
Rev 6:10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Master, set-apart and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Rev 6:11 And there was given to each one a white robe, and they were told that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brothers, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

When I read what some "church fathers" said about heretics "who are like Jews who keep the law, yet believe in Messiah" and realize that the church tortured and murdered perhaps 75-150 million heretics (of all types) thruout +1000 years in europe, it's not difficult to picture the above has already happened.

Dave Hunt only focuses on Rmman Catholics and not Protesting Catholics (Christians in general)...failing to realize the whore has daughters.

I think the web is so deep, widespread, and engrained that you can't isolate it to one particular religious/political/banking institution anymore either.
Offline cgb2  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:44:15 PM(UTC)
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>Capps Magna
A cloak with a long train and a hooded shoulder cape ... [it] was purple wool for bishops; for cardinals, it was scarlet watered silk (for Advent, Lent, Good Friday, and the conclave, purple wool); and rose watered silk for Gaudete and Lactate Sundays; and for the pope, it was red velvet for Christmas Matins, red serge at other times.
Cassock (also Soutane)
The close-fitting, ankle-length robe worn by the Catholic clergy as their official garb.... The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet

Zec 13:4 “And it shall be in that day that the prophets shall be ashamed, everyone of his vision when he prophesies, and not put a hairy robe on in order to deceive,
Offline FredSnell  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2011 4:19:37 PM(UTC)
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cgb2 wrote:

Dave Hunt only focuses on Rmman Catholics and not Protesting Catholics (Christians in general)...failing to realize the whore has daughters.


Talking with a brother by phone today after doing a little looking into Mr. Hunts beliefs, I think I know why he stays away from protestants. Looks like a pretty lucrative thing he has going there.
Offline In His Name  
#10 Posted : Thursday, October 13, 2011 5:13:25 PM(UTC)
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OK So let me try to wrestle this thread back to the point I was trying to make which Was:
Quote:
I have always viewed the next step (the seventh head/government)as a morphing or evolution of the “West”. But verses 13,15,16,17, speak of an internal overthrow of the “West” by it’s people, who hate the harlot and will tear down their governments and hand them to the beast.

Now let’s bring this all into context for today. Arab spring, not the people or nations I chose but perhaps a related phenomenon; Riots in Great Britain and Europe over the failure of the government; and finally from right at home, THESE HAVE ONE MIND – THESE WILL HATE THE HARLOT (FINANCIAL /POLITICAL/ RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS) – AND WILL GIVE THEIR KINGDOM TO THE BEAST, I give you this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QZlp3eGMNI


In the news today:
Reuters wrote:
The Vancouver-based group, which publishes a magazine and runs such campaigns as "Digital Detox Week" and "Buy Nothing Day," says it wants to "change the way corporations wield power" and its goal is "to topple existing power structures."

SLOW START

Adbusters, whose magazine has a circulation of 120,000 and which is known for its spoofs of popular advertisements, came up with the Occupy Wall Street idea after Arab Spring protests toppled governments in Egypt, Libya and Tunisia, said Kalle Lasn, 69, Adbusters co-founder.

"It came out of these brainstorming sessions we have at Adbusters," Lasn told Reuters, adding they began promoting it online on July 13. "We were inspired by what happened in Tunisia and Egypt and we had this feeling that America was ripe for a Tahrir moment." - http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/13/us-wallstreet-protests-origins-idUSTRE79C1YN20111013


Additionally the Reuters article insinuates (best it could do) that Soros is funding the 'occupy' demonstrations.

So my point was not really 'who is the woman' (but I think only considering the RCC is one dimensional and who do they control/rule over), My point was that the One World Government comes from an OVERTHROW of existing governments. OR MAYBE that is what the destruction of the 3 horns is about.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline cgb2  
#11 Posted : Friday, October 14, 2011 2:47:40 AM(UTC)
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In His Name wrote:

...So my point was not really 'who is the woman' (but I think only considering the RCC is one dimensional and who do they control/rule over), My point was that the One World Government comes from an OVERTHROW of existing governments. OR MAYBE that is what the destruction of the 3 horns is about.


Dan 7:23 “This is what he said, ‘The fourth beast is the fourth reign on earth, which is different from all other reigns, and it devours all the earth, tramples it down and crushes it.
Dan 7:24 ‘And the ten horns are ten sovereigns from this reign. They shall rise, and another shall rise after them, and it is different from the first ones, and it humbles three sovereigns,
Dan 7:25 and it speaks words against the Most High, and it wears out the set-apart ones of the Most High, and it intends to change appointed times1 and law2, and they are given into its hand for a time and times and half a time. Footnotes: 1This is another word for festivals. 2Changing the law amounts to lawlessness. Read in 2 Thess. 2:3-12 about “the lawless one” and the “lawlessness” which would take over (indeed, it has already taken over!) in the set-apart place, and also about Messiah’s judgment upon the lawless “prophets” in Mt. 7:23, and the lawless “believers” in Mt. 13:41!
Dan 7:26 ‘But the Judgement shall sit, and they shall take away its rule, to cut off and to destroy, until the end.
Dan 7:27 ‘And the reign, and the rulership, and the greatness of the reigns under all the heavens, shall be given to the people, the set-apart ones of the Most High. His reign is an everlasting reign, and all rulerships shall serve and obey Him.’
Dan 7:28 “This is the end of the matter. As for me, Dani’ĕl, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my colour changed. And I kept the matter in my heart.”

Upon the fall of the Roman Empire it split into 10 kingdoms, and there seems to be a fit with the start of the "Holy Roman Empire" with 3 of 10 of those kingdoms being humbled. Not a bit of a stretch to say Constantine as first "Vicar of Chr**t" was exalting himself, and the edict of Constantine to replace Sabbath rest with Sunday worship (venerable day of the sun) and put to death anyone who observed Shabbat and the appointed times instead of his edicts & holidays.
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