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Offline Bridget  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:54:37 PM(UTC)
Bridget
Joined: 12/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 165
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Location: USA

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I don't know where to post this, so here it is.

I guess I just want to vent.

I've just gotten done arguing with 'christians' about scripture.

It all began with the eating of the pork thing.
Well, I got blasted! I was told that the "old testament" was for Jews and the New Testament was for christians and that I was a lost puppy and blah blah.
I got blasted with Matthew 15 about what goes into the mouth is expelled and so on...

I tread lightly, as I am not well versed, but I did raise a few out of context verses myself. (luke 16:17 and Matthew 5:17......)
I was told, rather strongly that Paul was the gift from god and we are to forget the old testament rules, they are only for the jews.

The point of my rant here is that I was stunned with the venom I felt coming from them. I was told that I did not understand christianity and I was showing total ignorance. I said that I am aware of christianity, but I don't think christians know the word.

Oh boy. The mean spirit that happened after that was enough for me to see clearly they were misguided. If anyone here remembers me posting here before, you'll know I've struggle with this a lot, so pardon me for venting Again!

Coming away from it all and thinking on it....I'm just sad. I'm very sad. I'm a bit angry at Paul for the confusion, as well. There is no talking to these people. There is no reasoning. I was not being mean or judgmental. I was just trying to open some eyes and have a conversation. It simply did not work. I don't think I'll be trying that again.

There is no easy way to bring people to truths is there??
Things seem so clear to me. Of course, I've been reading YY and all related for a while now, but still. It seems to me that if you have a thinking brain, things come clearly.

People are soooo stubborn. No WONDER Yah had to send Yashua. (forgive the spellings, u know what I mean) Even still...so many of us are lost wandering around confused. it's depressing.

Okay, that's all. Just wanted to vent in a 'friendly' atmosphere. Thanks for listening. :)





Offline James  
#2 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:06:22 AM(UTC)
James
Joined: 10/23/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
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I feel for you Bridget,I have been in that position so many times. They are not interested in any kind of rational exchange of ideas, or any kind of rational review of Scripture. As soon as you suggest to most people that their religion might possibly be wrong rationality goes out the window, and defense mode kicks in. With people like that your only real hope is that something you said will take root and maybe down the road they will think rationally on it, but even that is a stretch.

Usually when people get that belligerent I just walk away, and tell them that they are free to take Paul's word over Yah's word, they are free to choose Christianity over a relationship with Yah, but I'm not going to tell them they are right just to make them happy, so if you are going to bring it up with me, expect me to tell you what I think. After that most will avoid the subject with you, and those that don't are the ones that there may still be hope for.

Hang in there Bridget, but know the vast majority of people you will talk to will reject Yah's word, and attack you because they can't refute what you are saying.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Richard  
#3 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:09:41 AM(UTC)
Richard
Joined: 1/19/2010(UTC)
Posts: 695
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We love you, sister.

There is a proverb which describes what you just experienced. It says that when a wise person debates with a fool, the fool either rages or laughs, and that there is no satisfactory end. Those who have chosen to put their trust in the words of Paul rather than in the Word of Yahowah are unreachable through reason and logic. Our only hope would be to recite Scripture and then say nothing else. Let the Spirit do Her work behind the scenes.

I am reminded as well of something Dowd wrote. "I am for peace, but my enemies are for war."

Thank you for sharing with the Family.

Richard
Offline danshelper  
#4 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:24:56 AM(UTC)
danshelper
Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA

I sincerely respect each one’s conscience about eating unclean animals (personally, I’m a vegetarian), but this further explanation of the prohibition in Scripture might be helpful to you Bridget. http://www.scienceofcorrespondences.com/swine.htm

Although there is continuous division over this (and many other) physical/external issues, for those who love God from a sincere heart, there is no division over the prohibition against the spiritual consumption of what is unclean. In the spiritual understanding, there is unanimous agreement and unity for all those who love God and desire to keep His commandments. We’re promised that when the inside is clean (when we adhere to the spiritual prohibition against greed and all unclean desires), the outside will be made clean – Matthew 23:25-26; Luke 11:39-40.

Venom and mean spiritedness is the enemy of us all.
Offline VinceB.  
#5 Posted : Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:48:39 AM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

Bridget wrote:
I don't know where to post this, so here it is.

I guess I just want to vent.

I've just gotten done arguing with 'christians' about scripture.

It all began with the eating of the pork thing.
Well, I got blasted! I was told that the "old testament" was for Jews and the New Testament was for christians and that I was a lost puppy and blah blah.
I got blasted with Matthew 15 about what goes into the mouth is expelled and so on...

I tread lightly, as I am not well versed, but I did raise a few out of context verses myself. (luke 16:17 and Matthew 5:17......)
I was told, rather strongly that Paul was the gift from god and we are to forget the old testament rules, they are only for the jews.

The point of my rant here is that I was stunned with the venom I felt coming from them. I was told that I did not understand christianity and I was showing total ignorance. I said that I am aware of christianity, but I don't think christians know the word.

Oh boy. The mean spirit that happened after that was enough for me to see clearly they were misguided. If anyone here remembers me posting here before, you'll know I've struggle with this a lot, so pardon me for venting Again!

Coming away from it all and thinking on it....I'm just sad. I'm very sad. I'm a bit angry at Paul for the confusion, as well. There is no talking to these people. There is no reasoning. I was not being mean or judgmental. I was just trying to open some eyes and have a conversation. It simply did not work. I don't think I'll be trying that again.

There is no easy way to bring people to truths is there??
Things seem so clear to me. Of course, I've been reading YY and all related for a while now, but still. It seems to me that if you have a thinking brain, things come clearly.

People are soooo stubborn. No WONDER Yah had to send Yashua. (forgive the spellings, u know what I mean) Even still...so many of us are lost wandering around confused. it's depressing.

Okay, that's all. Just wanted to vent in a 'friendly' atmosphere. Thanks for listening. :)






Great Job!

Welcome to Yah's family - seems Yada via Yah's Towrah, hit on this too!
HWHY
Offline cgb2  
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2011 4:20:28 AM(UTC)
cgb2
Joined: 5/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 689
Location: Colorado

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Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 18 post(s)
Sheesh, clearly Yahowsha is blasting "oral law (later became talmud)". That's particularly difficult with xtians because they make no distinction between Torah, oral law, & rabbinical judaism to justify their new testament and "the law has been done away with".

Mat 15:1 Then there came to יהושע scribes and Pharisees from Yerushalayim, saying,
Mat 15:2 “Why do Your taught ones transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
Mat 15:3 But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of Elohim1 because of your tradition? Footnote: 1See Mat. 5:20.
Mat 15:4 “For Elohim has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’
Mat 15:5 “But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated,”
Mat 15:6 is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of Elohim by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 “Hypocrites! Yeshayahu rightly prophesied about you, saying,
Mat 15:8 ‘This people draw near to Me with their mouth, and respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
Mat 15:9 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of men.’ ”1 Footnote: 1Isa. 29:13, Mk. 7:7, 2 Ki. 17:19.
Mat 15:10 And calling the crowd near, He said to them, “Hear and understand:
Mat 15:11 “Not that which goes into the mouth defiles the man, but that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”
Mat 15:12 Then His taught ones came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees stumbled when they heard this word?”
Mat 15:13 But He answering, said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted shall be uprooted.
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
Mat 15:15 And Kĕpha answering, said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
Mat 15:16 And יהושע said, “Are you also still without understanding?
Mat 15:17 “Do you not understand that whatever enters into the mouth goes into the stomach, and is cast out in the sewer?
Mat 15:18 “But what comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and these defile the man.
Mat 15:19 “For out of the heart come forth wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, whorings, thefts, false witnessings, slanders.
Mat 15:20 “These defile the man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”
Mat 15:21 And יהושע went out from there and withdrew to the parts of Tsor and Tsiḏon.
Mat 15:22 And see, a woman of Kenaʽan came from those borders and cried out to Him, saying, “Have compassion on me, O Master, Son of Dawiḏ! My daughter is badly demon-possessed.”
Mat 15:23 But He did not answer her a word. And His taught ones came and asked Him, saying, “Send her away, because she cries after us.”
Mat 15:24 And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ĕl.”
Mat 15:25 But she came and was bowing to Him, saying, “Master, help me!”
Mat 15:26 And He answering, said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”
Mat 15:27 But she said, “Yea Master, for even the little dogs1 eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” Footnote:1See Rev. 22:15.
Mat 15:28 And יהושע answering, said to her, “O woman, your belief is great! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.
Mat 15:29 And moving from there, יהושע came toward the Sea of Galil, and going up on the mountain, He was sitting there.
Mat 15:30 And large crowds came to Him, having with them those who were lame, blind, dumb, crippled, and many others. And they laid them down at the feet of יהושע, and He healed them,
Mat 15:31 so that the crowd marvelled when they saw the dumb speaking, the crippled well, the lame walking, and the blind seeing. And they praised the Elohim of Yisra’ĕl.
Mat 15:32 And יהושע, having called His taught ones near, said, “I have compassion on the crowd, because they have now continued with Me three days and do not have whatever to eat. And I do not wish to send them away hungry, lest they faint on the way.”
Mat 15:33 And His taught ones said to Him, “Where are we to get enough bread in the desert to satisfy such a large crowd?”
Mat 15:34 And יהושע said to them, “How many loaves do you have?” And they said, “Seven, and a few little fish.”
Mat 15:35 And He commanded the crowd to sit down on the ground,
Mat 15:36 and taking the seven loaves and the fish, giving thanks, He broke them and gave to His taught ones, and the taught ones to the crowd.
Mat 15:37 And all ate and were satisfied, and they picked up what was left over of the broken pieces – seven large baskets, filled.
Mat 15:38 And those who ate were four thousand men, besides women and children.
Mat 15:39 And dismissing the crowd, He went into the boat, and came to the borders of Maḡdala.
Offline FredSnell  
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2011 5:56:09 AM(UTC)
FredSnell
Joined: 1/29/2011(UTC)
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Mat 15:5 “But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated,”
Mat 15:6 is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of Elohim by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 “Hypocrites! Yeshayahu rightly prophesied about you, saying,
Mat 15:8 ‘This people draw near to Me with their mouth, and respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
Mat 15:9 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of men.’ ”1 Footnote: 1Isa. 29:13, Mk. 7:7, 2 Ki. 17:19.

This tells me that by keeping His commands, we do honor our, Father YHWH, and His Set Apart Spirit, the Ruach Ha-Kodesh (ROO-akh hak-KOH-desh) b/c Yahowshua lets us know, none are worthy of that title but One, and His all, He appoints as His representatives. Mine own sons do not honor me, if they did, they would do what Yah has commanded.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which YHWH thy Elohim giveth thee.

Okay, if my own mom will not do what He ask of her, why would He ask us to honor them. He doesn't, and that's where christians again misrepresent his Word. They instead honor themselves instead of our Father YHWH, and our protective Mom. And besides, this instruction is right after Him asking us to remember the day He set apart, and not one christian in a million will listen. Instead, again they follow the traditions of man, and Yah knew they would. I believe it's why He ask us to remember. Him knowing our future knew only a few would see it as He spoke. Besides, our earthly fathers have indulged in the murder of millions by stating their, indivisible acts of war. When they don't even understand His basic instructions, how can they even expect Him to know them.

But really, cbg2, those verses say so many things to me that I could write a book about those few and never get all the meaning they expound upon. You are exactly right in my opinion with your findings. Thanks!

Offline VinceB.  
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2011 8:18:16 AM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

encounterHim wrote:
Mat 15:5 “But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated,”
Mat 15:6 is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of Elohim by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 “Hypocrites! Yeshayahu rightly prophesied about you, saying,
Mat 15:8 ‘This people draw near to Me with their mouth, and respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
Mat 15:9 ‘But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as teachings the commands of men.’ ”1 Footnote: 1Isa. 29:13, Mk. 7:7, 2 Ki. 17:19.

This tells me that by keeping His commands, we do honor our, Father YHWH, and His Set Apart Spirit, the Ruach Ha-Kodesh (ROO-akh hak-KOH-desh) b/c Yahowshua lets us know, none are worthy of that title but One, and His all, He appoints as His representatives. Mine own sons do not honor me, if they did, they would do what Yah has commanded.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which YHWH thy Elohim giveth thee.

Okay, if my own mom will not do what He ask of her, why would He ask us to honor them. He doesn't, and that's where christians again misrepresent his Word. They instead honor themselves instead of our Father YHWH, and our protective Mom. And besides, this instruction is right after Him asking us to remember the day He set apart, and not one christian in a million will listen. Instead, again they follow the traditions of man, and Yah knew they would. I believe it's why He ask us to remember. Him knowing our future knew only a few would see it as He spoke. Besides, our earthly fathers have indulged in the murder of millions by stating their, indivisible acts of war. When they don't even understand His basic instructions, how can they even expect Him to know them.

But really, cbg2, those verses say so many things to me that I could write a book about those few and never get all the meaning they expound upon. You are exactly right in my opinion with your findings. Thanks!


Christians, thanks to Paul who created the Towrahless (midbar) pagan religion, has flipped all Dad ever said and did on its head - and I too can't stand the way they treat their errantly loaded Biblos (with its bias in favor of Paul Old and New testaments) as if it were a buffet table, picking and choosing a little of this with a little bit of that; talk about balal...not to mention delusional.

What that rhetorical question Yah asks us via Jeremiah 23:28's "...What is the chaff to the wheat?" communicates to me is: Yah puts His stuff out there irregardless of what people choose to do with it; corrupt it; conceal it; counterfeit it - doesn't change His wheat/Towrah from all the chaff/corruptions coming out of the world, in the least...just makes it harder for some folks to see the obvious.

I liked your rational reasoning eH
HWHY
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