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Offline Mailman Dan  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 3, 2011 12:27:02 PM(UTC)
Mailman Dan
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: texas





Some today insist that Christians must keep the Sabbath day, that those who worship on the first day of the week (Sunday) are in great error. They reason that "Sun-day" comes from the pagan worship of the Sun god, that Jesus and Paul kept the Sabbath day as an example for us to follow, and that the Roman Catholic church is responsible for the change in the day of worship. Those who continue to worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast.

Let’s briefly look at these arguments. First, nowhere does the Fourth Commandment say that Christians are to worship on the Sabbath. It commands that we rest on that day: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work . . . For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8–11). Sabbath-keepers worship on Saturday. However, the word "Satur-day" comes from the Latin for "Saturn’s day," a pagan day of worship of the planet Saturn (astrology).

If a Christian’s salvation depends upon his keeping a certain day, surely God would have told us. At one point, the apostles gathered specifically to discuss the relationship of believers to the Law of Moses. Acts 15:5–11, 24–29 was God’s opportunity to make His will clear to His children. All He had to do to save millions from damnation was say, "Remember to keep the Sabbath holy," and millions of Christ-centered, God-loving, Bible-believing Christians would have gladly kept it. Instead, the only commands the apostles gave were to "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication."

There isn’t even one command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy. In fact, we are told not to let others judge us regarding Sabbaths (Colossian 2:16), and that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man (Mark 2:27). The Sabbath was given as a sign to Israel (Exodus 31:13–17); nowhere is it given as a sign to the Church. Thousands of years after the Commandment was given we can still see the sign that separates Israel from the world—they continue to keep the Sabbath holy.

The apostles came together on the first day of the week to break bread (Acts 20:7). The collection was taken on the first day of the week (1 Corinthians 16:2). When do Sabbath-keepers gather together to break bread or take up the collection? It’s not on the same day as the early Church. They tell us that the Roman Catholic church changed their day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but what has that got to do with the disciples keeping the first day of the week? That was the Roman Catholic church in the early centuries, not the Church of the Book of Acts.

Romans 14:5–10 tells us that one man esteems one day of the week above another; another esteems every day alike. Then Scripture tells us that everyone should be fully persuaded in his own mind. We are not to judge each other regarding the day on which we worship.

Jesus did keep the Sabbath. He had to keep the whole Law to be the perfect sacrifice. The Bible makes it clear that the Law has been satisfied in Christ. The reason Paul went to the synagogue each Sabbath wasn’t to keep the Law; that would have been contrary to everything he taught about being saved by grace alone (Ephesians 2:8,9). It was so he could preach the gospel to the Jews, as evident in the Book of Acts. Paul had an incredible evangelistic zeal for Israel to be saved (Romans 10:1). To the Jew he became as a Jew, that he might win the Jews (1 Corinthians 9:19,20). That meant he went to where they gathered on the day they gathered.

D. L. Moody said, "The Law can only chase a man to Calvary, no further." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law so we are no longer in bondage to it. If we try to keep one part of the Law (even out of love for God), we are obligated to keep the whole Law (Galatians 3:10)—all 613 precepts. If those who insist on keeping the Sabbath were as zealous about the salvation of the lost as they are about other Christians keeping the Sabbath, we would see revival.



Dan
Offline Mailman Dan  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 3, 2011 12:34:21 PM(UTC)
Mailman Dan
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: texas

Side note...


"Satur-day" comes from the Latin for "Saturn’s day," a pagan day of worship of the planet Saturn (astrology).


There are arguements that people wearing crosses, or take part in Easter, are doing pagan things. If that arguement is true, it can also be applied to the Sabbeth. (Unless the aruement itself is in error)


I do not believe that anyone that takes part of the Sabbeth on Saturday truely is a worshiper of Saturn, nor do I believe someone with a cross on is using it as a pagan symbol. And object, or event that people chose to take part with, must be looked at in context, NOT in pagan roots. Otherwise the same arguements can be applied to almost any date or event. We can not truely examine ones motive or thought process, nor speak for their heart or worship focus.


Dan
Offline Walt  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 3, 2011 1:00:23 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Mailman Dan, you are delivering junk mail that is only fit for the trash

The problem is you are taking you belief system from a false religion, whose book is a corrupted translation of corrupted manuscripts, and who values the words of a man (Paul) not "ordained" by the true Creator. (One example is it does NOT say they met on the 1st day of the week - they met on a Shabot)

Most all here have come out of christianity, having learned it is based on lies and values the traditions of men over God's word - you are trying to reach a knowledgeable, learned group with lies we've discarded. What you are attempting to do is a futile as trying to convince Neil Armstrong that the moon is made of cheese.

I invite you to start reading the material at http://yadayahweh.com/ and see what the TRUTH is really about
Like - there is no "cross" in Yah's Word, It says Shabot is on the 7th day (doesn't mention saturday - that's man's calendar) and jesus is a made up name with no basis in Yah's Word
Offline In His Name  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 3, 2011 2:31:56 PM(UTC)
In His Name
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Some today insist that Christians must keep the Sabbath day, that those who worship on the first day of the week (Sunday) are in great error. They reason that "Sun-day" comes from the pagan worship of the Sun god, that Jesus and Paul kept the Sabbath day as an example for us to follow, and that the Roman Catholic church is responsible for the change in the day of worship. Those who continue to worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast. The “some” of who you speak are here, but you are only scratching the surface. Please stay with us, stand and have an open and honest conversation about what you have written. We will be honest but frank about what we believe. If you want to understand this belief better you will need to dig into Yada Yahweh. And what the heck as long as you started the conversation here you might as well dig into the text of your controversy. LINK The mark of the beast will be given to those who bow to the beast and subject themselves to his authority.

Let’s briefly look at these arguments. First, nowhere does the Fourth Commandment say that Christians are to worship on the Sabbath. It commands that we rest on that day: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work . . . For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8–11). Sabbath-keepers worship on Saturday. However, the word "Satur-day" comes from the Latin for "Saturn’s day," a pagan day of worship of the planet Saturn (astrology). The Sabbath is to be a day of rest, of family, of building relationships with those around us and with YHWH. How do we build that relationship with Him, by reading and discussing his Word and thereby discovering and understanding His Way. Christian worship is full of pagan customs that have nothing to do with YHWH, the church is full of idols and the christian religion is made of practices and celebrations copied from pagan religion with YHWH’s name (well his identity) blasphemously stamped upon them. YHWH commanded us to keep the Sabbath day, which is the seventh day… we called it saturn’s day, not HIM.

If a Christian’s salvation depends upon his keeping a certain day, surely God would have told us. At one point, the apostles gathered specifically to discuss the relationship of believers to the Law of Moses. Acts 15:5–11, 24–29 was God’s opportunity to make His will clear to His children. All He had to do to save millions from damnation was say, "Remember to keep the Sabbath holy," and millions of Christ-centered, God-loving, Bible-believing Christians would have gladly kept it. Instead, the only commands the apostles gave were to "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication." So what you are and how you act is determined by what you think you must do to be saved? Are you more interested in your salvation or in loving YHWH? That is like asking the thief if he is sorry he stole or sorry he got caught. If you wanted to show your love to YHWH wouldn’t you do those things he has asked you do? And just to be clear Catholics believe that the ‘host’ IS the body (meat) of Christ and it is sacrificed to the idol of the crucifix hanging above the alter, the priest even turns around and offers the meat to the idol.

There isn’t even one command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy. In fact, we are told not to let others judge us regarding Sabbaths (Colossian 2:16), and that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man (Mark 2:27). The Sabbath was given as a sign to Israel (Exodus 31:13–17); nowhere is it given as a sign to the Church. Thousands of years after the Commandment was given we can still see the sign that separates Israel from the world—they continue to keep the Sabbath holy. You are correct there are NO (new) commandments in the ‘new testament’. The ‘new testament’ is not Scripture. I believe we have to define Scripture as that which Yahushua clearly acknowledged as the WORD OF YHWH. Conveniently, but not coincidentally, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls to confirm our modern texts. Everything important that was said in the NT is a restatement of the Torah, Prophets and Psalms (TP&P). The rest of the NT is suspect at best and apostatic at worst.

The apostles came together on the first day of the week to break bread (Acts 20:7). The collection was taken on the first day of the week (1 Corinthians 16:2). When do Sabbath-keepers gather together to break bread or take up the collection? It’s not on the same day as the early Church. They tell us that the Roman Catholic church changed their day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but what has that got to do with the disciples keeping the first day of the week? That was the Roman Catholic church in the early centuries, not the Church of the Book of Acts. I actually don’t have a problem with a group meeting of the ecclesia on Sunday. The difference is that the disciples weren’t participating in the pagan worship that the RCC also created. This 1st century ecclesia was primarily made of Jews, and would have carried over the correct bits of Jewish culture following the model of Yahushua.

Romans 14:5–10 tells us that one man esteems one day of the week above another; another esteems every day alike. Then Scripture tells us that everyone should be fully persuaded in his own mind. We are not to judge each other regarding the day on which we worship. Today’s religion is just as misguided as was the Jewish religion that Yahushua railed against. You can cling to it if you want, but for me and mine we will follow YHWH.

Jesus did keep the Sabbath. He had to keep the whole Law to be the perfect sacrifice. The Bible makes it clear that the Law has been satisfied in Christ. The reason Paul went to the synagogue each Sabbath wasn’t to keep the Law; that would have been contrary to everything he taught about being saved by grace alone (Ephesians 2:8,9). It was so he could preach the gospel to the Jews, as evident in the Book of Acts. Paul had an incredible evangelistic zeal for Israel to be saved (Romans 10:1). To the Jew he became as a Jew, that he might win the Jews (1 Corinthians 9:19,20). That meant he went to where they gathered on the day they gathered. I will leave this on to others who have more clear cut feelings about Paul

D. L. Moody said, "The Law can only chase a man to Calvary, no further." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law so we are no longer in bondage to it. If we try to keep one part of the Law (even out of love for God), we are obligated to keep the whole Law (Galatians 3:10)—all 613 precepts. If those who insist on keeping the Sabbath were as zealous about the salvation of the lost as they are about other Christians keeping the Sabbath, we would see revival. If you believe that you don’t need to be obedient to YHWH’s Word and commandments, then why do you need forgiveness? If the law was taken away then there is no sin. You can do what ever you want without repercussion. I am bound to YHWH, I will keep his laws to the best of my ability and trust in the sacrifice of the His Lamb to wash away my failures and make me pure in his eyes.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Noach  
#5 Posted : Friday, June 3, 2011 6:10:31 PM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Dear Mailman Dan,

Thank you for coming onto this website and not educating yourself with any of the information presented before logging into the forum and posting your religious dribble. It is much easier for Me when My Christian's remain completely ignorant and irrational rather than informed and educated. Please continue to post on this website often with your religious nonsense in the hopes of one day turning the minds of these Torah observant people into mush as religion has obviously done to yours.

Love,

Your LORD Jesus Christ

PS: on your next post lets talk about how I turn into a cookie for communion every Sunday.
Offline Richard  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 3, 2011 8:43:28 PM(UTC)
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Good answer, InHisName.

Mailman Dan, you quote as credible references Saul of Tarsus, aka Paul, and others. We who know Yahowah reject Paul and every apologist of his Christian religion at least as vigorously as they themselves have rejected the Word of Yahowah. Therefore, all your arguments are weightless and useless around here.

I sincerely invite you to question your religious beliefs and to wrestle yourself into a place where you are mentally and emotionally ready to walk away from anything and everything you discover to be false. Once there, you are further encouraged to actually study (as opposed to just reading) An Introduction to God and Yada Yahweh. Once armed with the truth revealed in those documents, which is the truth which has been hidden from us by religion's deliberate mistranslations and omissions, you will be in a better position to make an informed and reasonable choice regarding that truth.

If you have the integrity to wrestle yourself into a place where you are mentally and emotionally ready to walk away from anything and everything you discover to be false, then there is hope for your soul. If not, then you will without a doubt perish in your sins. If our understanding of Scripture is correct, then there will be not one proponent of Christianity that receives the gift of eternal life from Yahowah. No, not one.
Offline RidesWithYah  
#7 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 4:16:11 AM(UTC)
RidesWithYah
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331

Hi Dan, and welcome to the forums.

I was raised believing much like you, but on reading the scriptures myself instead of relying on my "pastor", I kept running into questions. Consider:

Mary and the others did not go to the tomb until almost dawn on Sunday, because "they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment". So if Messiah did away with the commandment before He died, He forgot to tell those closest to Him. In NONE of his post-resurrection appearances does He imply that the commandment was no more; and this is such a drastic change, surely it would have been written down had He said it. Instead, He said “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. " Over and over we are warned against the "error of lawless men", or those who "work anomia" -- lawlessness, without Torah.

Hundreds of years before Messiah, Daniel predicted that the enemies of God would "think to change times and laws", and that's exactly what the Roman church did.

Keep studying, and ask your Father to open your mind to His truth.
Peace.
Offline Walt  
#8 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:00:18 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Sabbath is a beautiful gift from the Father. It is an evil thing how religion (both christianity & judaism) has masked this gem from Yah with such lies and deceptions, making it into a burden or irrelevant.
It just reveals the true source of these religions, as the adversary seeks to corrupt and twist the things of Yah and replace them with dead rituals and traditions that lead the masses away from the True Creator and into oblivion.
Offline Walt  
#9 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:02:15 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

RidesWithYah wrote:

Hundreds of years before Messiah, Daniel predicted that the enemies of God would "think to change times and laws", and that's exactly what the Roman church did.


RidesWithYah, I didn't realize this, where in Daniel is this?
Offline RidesWithYah  
#10 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:18:34 AM(UTC)
RidesWithYah
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331

Daniel 7, speaking of Rome:


15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings[c]which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’
19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
23 “Thus he said:


‘ The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
=============================

A time, times, and half a time means 3 1/2 "times", each being 360 days/years. 3 1/2 times is 1260 years.
Justinian's decree establishing the supremacy of papal Rome took effect in March of 538 AD. And a french general captured the pope, ending papal reign, in February 1798. 1260 years.

Peace.
Offline In His Name  
#11 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 5:28:04 AM(UTC)
In His Name
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flintface wrote:
Good answer, InHisName.

Mailman Dan, you quote as credible references Saul of Tarsus, aka Paul, and others. We who know Yahowah reject Paul and every apologist of his Christian religion at least as vigorously as they themselves have rejected the Word of Yahowah. Therefore, all your arguments are weightless and useless around here.

I sincerely invite you to question your religious beliefs and to wrestle yourself into a place where you are mentally and emotionally ready to walk away from anything and everything you discover to be false. Once there, you are further encouraged to actually study (as opposed to just reading) An Introduction to God and Yada Yahweh. Once armed with the truth revealed in those documents, which is the truth which has been hidden from us by religion's deliberate mistranslations and omissions, you will be in a better position to make an informed and reasonable choice regarding that truth.

If you have the integrity to wrestle yourself into a place where you are mentally and emotionally ready to walk away from anything and everything you discover to be false, then there is hope for your soul. If not, then you will without a doubt perish in your sins. If our understanding of Scripture is correct, then there will be not one proponent of Christianity that receives the gift of eternal life from Yahowah. No, not one.


FF, I am with you all the way to the last paragraph. I obviously agree about the false practices and false teachings of christianity. YHWH unquestionably, categorically and vociferously spoke against assimilating pagan ideas. But christianity does have His Word in their hands. Is that enough? Do their errant interpretations break the deal. I don't think we are competent to stand in judgement of where He draws the line. And this is why I think we must start with the First of his commandments, to Love YHWH with all we have within us. From this perspective we know we must listen to His words not the confused or misleading or even treacherous words of men. We are called to repent, I think most see that as simply confessing and saying I'm sorry, but the definition is more than that, from Merrriam webster online:

Definition of REPENT
intransitive verb
1
: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2
a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one's mind

So we are to feel sorry, think differently, turn away from sin (not ignore it) and DEDICATE our life to HIS WAY.

You are right, many, most, all(?) christians have missed the mark. We have an moral obligation to try to wake them up and show them their error. But leave the judgement in His hands.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Richard  
#12 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 9:44:27 AM(UTC)
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Like I said, if we understand the Scriptures correctly, then there won't be a single proponent of Christianity at the wedding feast. That is not passing judgment. Yahowah said He will not forgive those who tolerate religion. So if He will not forgive them, how will they obtain entrance into the Family? To suggest that there is some other way for them is to give them false hope, which is not showing them love at all: it is, instead, the most cruel thing we could do to them. Therefore, if Yada's translation of Exodus 20 is correct, then every Christian is doomed to either annihilation or the Pit, depending on whether or not they actively recruited for their religion. Have you never read -
Ezekiel 3:18,19 wrote:
"When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself."


How, then, are we to warn others if doing so is to be considered "judging" them?

Yada, in order to translate the Scriptures, wrote:
Exodus 20:7 -
You shall not lift up, support, or advance, forgive or dignify, respect or tolerate, through the Name or reputation of Yahowah your God, lifeless and worthless deceptions or devastating and destructive falsehoods. For indeed Yahowah will not forgive or leave unpunished those who deceive, beguile, or delude, using clever trickery to mislead in association with His Name, to promote vain and ineffectual lies which lead to lifelessness and destruction, or devastating deceptions which nullify our existence, leading to emptiness.

Edited by user Monday, June 6, 2011 6:45:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline James  
#13 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:10:10 AM(UTC)
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dan wrote:
Some today insist that Christians must keep the Sabbath day, that those who worship on the first day of the week (Sunday) are in great error. They reason that "Sun-day" comes from the pagan worship of the Sun god, that Jesus and Paul kept the Sabbath day as an example for us to follow, and that the Roman Catholic church is responsible for the change in the day of worship. Those who continue to worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast.

I don’t think Christians must keep the Sabbath; it is not a part of their Religion. I would say that those who are a part of Yah’s family must observe the Sabbath. Notice here I said observe, not keep perfectly. We are called and instructed to shamar – closely observe, carefully examine, and revere and rely upon Yahowah’s Torah. And since in His torah He instructs us to remember the Sabbath ….
God has no interest in us worshiping him anyway, so if you believe in a god that wants to be worshiped, that god is not Yahowah.
I would say that you should not keep Sunday as the Sabbath, not because it is related to Sun worship, but because it is not the Sabbath. However the evidence is clear that the early ecclesia kept the Sabbath, and that it was moved by Constantine to the Lord’s day, Sol inviticus Mithras, the unconquerable sun Mithras.
Yahowsha did keep the Sabbath, I have no interest in what Paul did, and we should follow His example. He did after all say that those who love Him will keep His commandments.

dan wrote:
Let’s briefly look at these arguments. First, nowhere does the Fourth Commandment say that Christians are to worship on the Sabbath.

Correct, in fact nowhere in Scripture are Christians ever mentioned, not once, not ever. God did not give Christians any command, instructions or advice; He is not interested in Christians.
Also no one here would say, nor does Yahowah ever say that we are to worship on the Sabbath.
Dan wrote:
It commands that we rest on that day: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work . . . For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8–11).

Actually, Satan’s title LORD, was not penned either in the tabltes scribed by Moshe or the ones Yahowah wrote Himself. Moshe and Yahowah both knew and used His name, man has since copyedited God, and replaced His name with Satan’s title.
Also God never said the keep the Sabbath holy, he said to keep it Qowdesh. Let’s examine these two words for a moment and see how man has corrupted God’s message.
–adjective
1.
specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use orauthority; consecrated.
2.
dedicated or devoted to the service of god, the church, orreligion.
3.
saintly; godly; pious; devout.
–noun
8.
a place of worship; sacred place; sanctuary.
—Synonyms
1. Blessed. HOLY, SACRED, CONSECRATED, HALLOWED imply possessionof a sanctity that is the object of religious veneration. HOLY refers to the divine, that which has its sanctity directly from God or isconnected with Him. Something that is SACRED, while sometimes accepted as entitledto religious veneration, may have its sanctity from humanauthority: a sacred oath. Something that is CONSECRATED isspecially or formally dedicated to some religious use: a lifeconsecrated to service. Something that is HALLOWED has been made holy by being worshiped.

Qowdesh on the other hand is something that has been separated and set apart for the purpose of cleansing, purifying and uplifting.

So let’s look at what Yahowah actually instructed.

“Remember (zakar – recall, reflect upon, recognize, mark, memorialize, mention, proclaim, and be earnestly mindful of) that the Sabbath (shabat – the seventh day, the time of observance, of rest to reflect on God’s promise to settle our debts so we could settle with Him on the seventh) day (yowm) is set apart (qadash – is separated unto God for purifying and cleansing and thus special). Six (shesh) days you shall work (‘abad – labor) and do (‘asah – prepare and produce, fashion and finish, advance, assign, and accomplish, institute and celebrate) all (kol – the entirety of) your service of representing the Messenger and proclaiming the message (mala’kah – your Godly duties and heavenly labor). But the seventh (shaby’y – the solemn promise which fulfills and satisfies those who listen and are observant of the role of the seventh) day (yowm), the Sabbath of (shabat – the seventh day, the time of observance, of rest and reflection, and of ceasing and desisting from ordinary labor to consider the promise to settle all disputes and settle down with) Yahowah (YaHoWaH) your God (‘elohym), you shall not do (lo’ ‘asah – not prepare or produce, fashion or finish, advance, or assign, nor accomplish) any part of (kol) the work of God’s Representative and Messenger (mala’kah – from mal’ak, the ministry and mission of the heavenly envoy, the Divine endeavors and labor of God’s corporeal manifestation) yourself (‘atah), nor your son (ben), your daughter (bat), your servants and employees (‘ebed / ‘amah), your means of production (behemah – animals and beasts of burden), nor those visitors (ger – foreigners) who relationally (‘asher) are in your home, property, or community (sa’ar – area enclosed by a door or gate, a household, assembly, city, or nation). For indeed in (ky – because surely and truly in) six (shesh – symbolic of mankind being bleached white and purified) days (yowm) Yahowah (YaHoWaH) made (‘asah – prepared and produced, fashioned and finished, instituted and celebrated) accordingly (‘eth) the heavens (shamaym – the spiritual realm) and the earth (‘erets – the material world), and the seas (yam), and all (kol – everything) which relationally (‘asher) is in them (ba). And (wa) He became completely settled (nuwach – rested after settling all unresolved issues) during (ba) the seventh (shaby’y – the solemn promise which fulfills and satisfies those who listen and are observant of the role of the seventh) day (yowm). Therefore (ken – consequently, this is true and correct) Yahowah blessed and adored (barak – knelt down and lowered Himself to greet those He had created and lift them up on) the Sabbath (shabat – the seventh day, the time of observance, of rest and reflection, and of ceasing and desisting from ordinary labor to consider the promise God has made to settle our debts and settle us in His home on this) day (yowm), setting it apart (qodesh – separating it from others, dedicating it to separation, cleansing, and purifying).” (Shemowth / These are the Names / Exodus 20:8-11)

We have been asked to follow Yahowah’s example, resting on the seventh day, so that we can remember and reflect upon the promise He has made, and subsequently fulfilled, to settle our debts and resolve every issue which has separated us. Considering what He has done to serve us on this day, especially on the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread in 33 CE, it’s not too much to ask. Also, while the simplistic view of this Commandment tells us to observe the Sabbath, the deeper spiritual message is that Yahowah has promised to save us so long as we rest and rely on Him to do His job.

As with most everything Yahowah reveals, there is more to God’s Instruction than initially meets the eye. The title shabat Yahowah chose to describe the “seventh” day tells us that this is the time to “observe,” and thus carefully consider the “promise” He has made to us, His “sworn oath” to save us.”

More than this, the Sabbath is about “nuwach – resting,” because God wants us to realize that we cannot earn our salvation. It is a gift, one whereby we must rely on Him to do everything which is required to redeem us. And He accomplishes this merciful result by way of “nuwach – settling” our debts so that we might become “qodesh – cleansed and purified,” and thereby be “set apart unto” Him, which enables our Heavenly Father to “nuwach – settle” us in His home. This is the reason Shabat and the Spirit are both described as: “qodesh – set-apart, purifying, and cleansing.”

God is also telling us that when it comes to our existence, and to life itself, He has a plan, one which He has and will continue to follow, and one which He wants us to understand. It is based upon six, which is symbolic of man who was created on the sixth day, in addition to God who is one, equaling the perfect result, represented throughout Scripture as seven. For example, there are seven Called-Out Assembly Meetings, six steps we must follow to receive God’s mercy: Passover, Unleavened Bread, FirstFruits, Seven Sabbaths, Trumpets, and Reconciliations. Collectively, these six steps lead to the Called-Out Assembly Meeting of Shelters, the seventh Festival Feast, where we are allowed to camp out with our Heavenly Father.

And lest we forget, by proclaiming the importance of observing the Sabbath, God has once again placed Himself in conflict with the world’s two most popular religions: Islam and Christianity, whose adherents pray and worship on Friday and Sunday. So I ask you: why do you suppose the founders of these religions collectively thumbed their noses at God’s instructions by selecting days on either side of the Sabbath? The answer, while unpopular, is obvious: Muhammad and Constantine were opposed to God.

And please, don’t buy into the Christian myth that we “should worship God every day, making Sunday as good as any other.” Not only doesn’t God want to be worshiped, there is but one day, at the exclusion of all others, set apart to focus upon our relationship with Him. The Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans worshiped their false gods on Sunday, which is why Sunday Worship was mandated by Roman Catholicism in direct conflict with God’s instructions. There is no justification for it in Scripture.

But this leads to another question: do the billions of Muslims and Christians who thoughtlessly stumble into mosques and churches on Fridays and Sundays without resolving this conflict believe God is capricious (and thus unreliable), or that God has given religious clerics the authority to contradict Him? Or has their faith preempted thinking?

I have learned that there are tremendous insights to be gleaned by going back in time and considering the picture painted by the paleo-Hebrew alphabet with which these instructions were initially inscribed. Shabat, written as שַׁבָּת by the Masoretes, begins with the letter Shin, In paleo-Hebrew it was represented pictorially by teeth, and thus symbolized language and words, instructions and directions, in addition to nourishment. Affirming this legacy, “shama’ – listen” and “shamar – observe” both begin with Shin.

The second letter, Beyth, was depicted by a graphic representation of a sheltered enclosure or dwelling place, and it symbolized being part of a family which was protected inside of their home. Even today, beyth means “family and home,” and beryth, which is derived from it, provides the title for Yahowah’s “Family-Oriented Covenant Relationship.”

The final letter in shabat, Taw, was conveyed in paleo-Hebrew using an upright pillar with a horizontal support beam. It conveyed the ideas of an upright pillar which was designed to hold up and enlarge a tent or the Tabernacle. It also represented a doorway, in addition to a mark, a sign, a symbol, and a signature—all of which are symbolic of Yahowsha’.

Therefore, the letters which form shabat convey: instructions regarding the doorway which provides access to God’s home, to being part of His family, to being sheltered and protected by the Upright One.


Dan wrote:
Sabbath-keepers worship on Saturday. However, the word "Satur-day" comes from the Latin for "Saturn’s day," a pagan day of worship of the planet Saturn (astrology).


Actually most who observe the Sabbath recognize that it is NOT Saturday, it is the Seventh day, and Scripturally days start at sundown, so if one were to coordinate the Sabbath with the pagan Gregorian calendar it would be from sundown on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night. Plus as I have pointed out, no one here is interested in a god that needs to be worshiped, since Yahowah certainly doesn’t.

The fact is that every day on our pagan calendar is named in honor of a pagan God. But as I pointed out already the evidence is clear that Sunday worship originated in honor of a pagan God.


Dan wrote:
If a Christian’s salvation depends upon his keeping a certain day, surely God would have told us.


Well first no one has said that Salvation was predicated upon keeping the Sabbath, so this is a straw man argument. But God did tell us to keep the Sabbath set apart.

Dan wrote:
At one point, the apostles gathered specifically to discuss the relationship of believers to the Law of Moses. Acts 15:5–11, 24–29 was God’s opportunity to make His will clear to His children.


Really, hmm, I read through that section of Acts and from what I can tell God was not present there. The Apostles were merely men, yes they were men who had the great opportunity of spending three and a half years learning at the feet of the Ma’eseyah, but they were men none the less, they were not perfect.

So you are left with a choice, you can follow the words of men, great men who were right on many things, but who were wrong many times as well (Read the eyewitness accounts these men were far from perfect.) Or you can listen to what Yahowah and Yahowsha said. Having examined Yahowah’s statement on the instruction regarding the Sabbath, let’s look at Yahowsha’s statement regarding the Torah.

"Do not assume that I have come to weaken, dismantle, invalidate, or abolish (kataluso – loosen, tear down, or dissolve, put an end to, do away with, or annul) the Torah (nomos – Law) or the Prophets. I have not come to do away with it, but instead to completely fulfill it. Truly (amein – this is reliable and trustworthy) I say to you, till heaven and the earth pass away not one jot (iota – the smallest letter in Hebrew) nor tittle (keraia – the top stroke of Hebrew letters) shall be passed by (parerchomai – be ignored or disobeyed, be disregarded) from that which was established in the Towrah until the time and place it all happens. Therefore, whoever dismisses (luo – does away with, dissolves, invalidates, or abolishes) the least of these commandments (entole – precepts, prescriptions, and authoritative directions)or teaches (didasko – indoctrinates or instructs) people to do the same, they will be called the least important (elachistos – will be considered to be so small as to be insignificant and undignified) in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever performs (poieomai – accomplishes and celebrates, practices and profits from) them, and teaches them, they will be called the greatest and most important in the kingdom of heaven." (Mattityahu/Matthew 5:17-19)


"For then this is the Torah and the Prophets: enter, starting with the first step in the path by the way of the narrow and specific doorway, because the way is wide, it is crafted to be broad, expansive, and unreliable, and the route is broad which leads away, which deceives and influences someone to go astray to the point of destruction and perishing, needlessly destroying themselves and squandering their lives. And the vast preponderance of people, are those experiencing this path. The doorway is narrow, exacting and specific, and the path goes against the crowd, which leads to life, and few discover, and experience it. You must be alert, carefully examine, and turn away (prosechete — you should pay close attention, watch out for and beware of, guarding yourself) from false prophets who come to you from within dressed in sheep’s clothing, yet they actually are wolves who are exceptionally self-promoting and self-serving(harpax — vicious thieves who secretly and deliberately rob, extort, and snatch away; from harpazo: violently, forcibly, and eagerly claim and seize for oneself and pluck away)." (Mattityahu / Matthew 7:7-15)


Dan wrote:
All He had to do to save millions from damnation was say, "Remember to keep the Sabbath holy," and millions of Christ-centered, God-loving, Bible-believing Christians would have gladly kept it. Instead, the only commands the apostles gave were to "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication."


Again, these were men, they were flawed, and we should never take the word of men over that of God.


Dan wrote:
There isn’t even one command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy.


To start with there is no New Testament, at least not according to Yah. And as I pointed out before you can’t find one reference to Christians anywhere.

Yahowsha specifically stated that He did not come to do away with the Torah, and that not one Jot or Tittle, not the smallest letter of it would change, until heaven and earth passed away, since the commandment about the Sabbath is in His Torah, I guess that means it hasn’t been done away with, last I checked heaven and earth were still here. He also said not to dismiss the least of them or teache others to do so.

Dan wrote:
In fact, we are told not to let others judge us regarding Sabbaths (Colossian 2:16), and that man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man (Mark 2:27). The Sabbath was given as a sign to Israel (Exodus 31:13–17); nowhere is it given as a sign to the Church. Thousands of years after the Commandment was given we can still see the sign that separates Israel from the world—they continue to keep the Sabbath holy.


The very fact that you are citing a verse whereby Paul the false apostle dismiss and teaches others to dismiss one of Yahowah’s commandments should be enough for everyone to reject him, but unfortunately Christians would rather reject what Yahowah and Yahowsha said in favor of Paul. And Yahowsha’s comments in Mark, do not say that we are not to keep the Sabbath, he was condemning what the religious men of His time had done to it. Through their oral law the Religious Jews had turned the Sabbath into a list of dos and don’ts that were to be rigorously kept, Yhowsha was pointing out to them this error, He never said not to observe the Sabbath.

So that you know Israel is ‘Yisra’el, those who strive with, and are empowered by God. Sounds like a group I want to be a part of, I don’t know about you.

Dismissing the Torah as being for the Jews is the gravest mistake one can make. Yahowah has but one covenant, contrary to what Paul taught, and that covenant is found in but one place, the Torah.


Dan wrote:
The apostles came together on the first day of the week to break bread (Acts 20:7). The collection was taken on the first day of the week (1 Corinthians 16:2). When do Sabbath-keepers gather together to break bread or take up the collection?


They all also kept the Sabbath, so if you are going to follow their example why do you reject and dismiss the Sabbath?

You can assemble any day of the week you like, but the Sabbath is still to be a day set apart.

Dan wrote:
It’s not on the same day as the early Church. They tell us that the Roman Catholic church changed their day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but what has that got to do with the disciples keeping the first day of the week? That was the Roman Catholic church in the early centuries, not the Church of the Book of Acts.


Again, they did not replace the Sabbath with getting together. They would meet up on the first day of the week. SO WHAT. They still observed the Sabbath.

The Sabbath wasn’t replaced until the birth of the Universal Church, under Constantine.

Also, just an aside, there is no basis what so ever for church in Scripture. Church is derived from Chirch, a pagan goddess. The word which man has corrupted to Church, is ecclesia, and it means out calling, or out called assembly, it is the Greek equivalent of Miqra, the title Yahowah used for the seven most important days on His calendar, seven days most Christians couldn’t name if there life depended upon it. In translating there are only two honest ways to deal with the Greek word ecclesia, if it is a name or title it should always be transliterated ecclesia, and then it’s meaning explained, if it is a word it should always be translated out-calling or out called assembly. In no way can one get Church from either method. The same is true with Christ, which even if you were to transliterate from the Greek, it is not Christ, which means the application of drugs, the Greek was Chrestus, which means useful implement.


Dan wrote:
Romans 14:5–10 tells us that one man esteems one day of the week above another; another esteems every day alike. Then Scripture tells us that everyone should be fully persuaded in his own mind. We are not to judge each other regarding the day on which we worship.



You won’t convince anyone here by quoting Paul. Again I say if I have a choice between what man says, in this case a man who contradicted Yah at most every turn, and what Yahowah said I am going to go with Yah. If you wish to put your faith in Paul, then I feel sorry for you.


Dan wrote:
Jesus did keep the Sabbath. He had to keep the whole Law to be the perfect sacrifice. The Bible makes it clear that the Law has been satisfied in Christ. The reason Paul went to the synagogue each Sabbath wasn’t to keep the Law; that would have been contrary to everything he taught about being saved by grace alone (Ephesians 2:8,9). It was so he could preach the gospel to the Jews, as evident in the Book of Acts. Paul had an incredible evangelistic zeal for Israel to be saved (Romans 10:1). To the Jew he became as a Jew, that he might win the Jews (1 Corinthians 9:19,20). That meant he went to where they gathered on the day they gathered.


I for one could care less why Paul kept the Sabbath. As I have said time and again, I am interested only in what Yah has to say.


Dan wrote:
D. L. Moody said, "The Law can only chase a man to Calvary, no further." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law so we are no longer in bondage to it. If we try to keep one part of the Law (even out of love for God), we are obligated to keep the whole Law (Galatians 3:10)—all 613 precepts. If those who insist on keeping the Sabbath were as zealous about the salvation of the lost as they are about other Christians keeping the Sabbath, we would see revival.



The fact that Paul referred to Yahowah’s Torah as a curse is abominable, and should be enough to make one dismiss him. Personally I am annoyed to say the least that Paul would try to use the Torah to prove that the Torah is a curse.

Lets examine Galatians 3:10
"For (gar) as long as (hosos – as much as) they exist (eisim) by means of (ek) doing the assigned tasks and activities of (ergon –by works and by observing in the sense of doing what is says in) the Torah (nomou – Law (singular genitive, and thus a specific characterization)), they are (eisin) under (hupo – influenced by the auspices of) a curse (katara – they are denounced and detested, and will not have their burdens lifted or their souls raised), because (gar) it is written (grapho – inscribed in Scripture)that (hoti): ‘All (pas) [are] accursed (epikataratos – exposed and subject to judgment, and bereaved of salvation) who (hos) do not (ou) remain alive in and who do not persevere with(emmeno – continue to be faithful to, hold fast to, carefully obey, recognizing the trustworthiness of, and continually abide with, keep, endure, and survive by way of) all (pas) that (tois) is written(grapho) in (en) the scroll (biblion – documented record) of the Torah (nomou – Law (singular genitive, and thus a specific characterization)), doing (poieomai) it (autos).’" (Galatians 3:10)


There are two proclamations delineated in Galatians 3:10. The first is false: "For as long as they exist by means of doing the assigned tasks and activities of the Torah, they are under a curse." The second is true: "All are accursed who do not remain alive in and who do not persevere with all that is written in the scroll of the Torah, doing it." The first statement is from Paul. The second statement is from Yahweh. Since they are mutually exclusive, who do you think is trustworthy?

It’s true: we cannot work for our salvation. And the Torah is the source of life. But this context, and considering Paul’s word choices, we are precluded from thinking that this is what he intended to say in his proposition or justification. The only point of connection between his declaration and the Scriptural quotation is the word "curse." So his argument hinges upon it.

By citing a passage that includes "curse" and "Torah," Sha’uwl was hoping that his audience would believe that he was right in stating that "the Torah is a curse." Beyond the fact that his proof statement contains the same verb and noun of his proposition, it would otherwise have been counterproductive to cite Deuteronomy 27:26 in this context. After all, this verse says nothing about working for our salvation, and many other Torah passages do, especially those pertaining to the Sabbath and the special Sabbaths associated with the Miqra’ey. So, if Paul’s purpose had been to reinforce the idea that we cannot work for our salvation, he would have used a completely different proof text.

But if Paul was intending to say that "observing the Torah" cannot save us because we have to do "everything that is written in the scroll of the Torah" or be "accursed" by it, then the verse fits—at least in a twisted sort of way. Therefore, the most reasonable interpretation of Paul’s point is: since you can’t do everything the Torah says, the curse of the Torah is inevitable. (But be careful. The Torah has a specific solution for that problem.)

Translated "curse," in Sha’uwl’s proposition, it is fair to say that katara is a difficult term to nail down. It is an adjective, comprised of a compound of kata, meaning "according to," "down from," or "against," and ara, meaning "a prayer or supplication," which is "an earnest request." Ara is based upon airo, which conveys the ideas of "raising up, elevating, and lifting up, bearing someone’s burdens, taking them by the hand, and carrying them away." So, with the exception of "down from and against" all of this sounds pretty good. Therefore the "curse" connotation of this word is derived from kata negating the benefits of ara. And that means that the "curse" is "not being lifted up," and "not having one’s burdens carried away." It isn’t that the "accursed" are being punished, but instead, as a result of a just evaluation, they won’t receive any help. And, so that you know,epikataratos, appearing later in this same verse, is a derivative of katara.

In this light, the second half of this passage, which is a flawed Greek rendering of Deuteronomy 27:26, actually says: "Everyone (pas) is exposed and subject to judgment and bereaved of salvation (epikataratos) who does not remain alive in and who does not persevere with all that is written in the scroll of the Torah, doing it." They "katara – are not going to have their prayers answered, burdens removed, or souls lifted." Clearly then, even in the Greek rendition, the Torah passage does not infer that a person has to do everything the Torah says, nor does it suggest that the Torah is a curse.

Before we contemplate the full intent of Sha’uwl’s message, and say for certain that we understand it, let’s consider the Scriptural verse he cited. The conversation begins with the first verse of the 27th chapter, where a long list of blessings are delineated, all of which flow from observing the Torah. Then starting with the 9th verse, we find that those "who live with God (Yisra’el)," are asked to "be silent and listen," because "this day you have become a family unto Yahuweh, your God. Listen to the voice of Yahuweh, your God, accomplish and celebrate (‘asah– gaining from and working) with (‘eth) His precepts (miswah – authoritative directions and prescriptions), and with (‘eth) His (huw’) decrees and clearly communicated thoughts (hoq – statutes and prescribed written decrees), which relationally (‘asher) I instruct (sawah – direct) you today." (Deuteronomy 27:9-10) In other words, our Heavenly Father is telling His children to listen to Him and to observe His Torah instructions.

From this point, Yahweh delineates a series of behaviors which He promises will engender an unfavorable response. "Cursed (‘arar – invoking harm upon oneself by making oneself unlikable) is the man who makes idols, and detestable crafted images with their hands..., who lightly esteems his Father and Mother..., who steals his neighbor’s property..., who misleads a blind person..., who denies justice to a stranger or foreigner, an orphan, or a widow..., who commits any form of incest..., who commits bestiality..., who strikes and beats his neighbor..., and who accepts a bribe and thereby harms an innocent person." (Deuteronomy 27:15-25)

We should not be surprised, therefore, that those who perpetrate these unsavory behaviors will be shunned by God. This list is then followed by a summary conclusion: "Cursed (‘arar – invoking harm upon oneself by making oneself unlikable) is whoever (‘asher) is not (lo’)established (quwm – restored, supported, caused to stand, lifted up, confirmed, and enabled to endure) by (‘eth) the words (dabar – the message) of this (zo’t) Towrah (towrah – law, prescriptions for living, directions, teachings, and instructions), accomplishing and celebrating(‘asah – gaining from, doing useful and productive things, and working) with (‘eth) them (hem). And (wa) the entire (kol) family (‘am – nation) said (‘amar – answered, promised, and declared), ‘This is true, acceptable, and reliable (‘aman – affirming, supportive, and verifiable).’"(Deuteronomy 27:26)

Therefore, we can now say for certain, that according to Yahweh: "Cursed are those who are not established and renewed by the message of the Torah, who do not celebrate and benefit from it.... This is "true and reliable, ‘aman!" And that means that any attack on the Torah, any belittlement of it, any attempt to negate or annul it, any statement which suggests that it is a curse, would be directly opposed to Yahweh’s position and Word.

Reinforcing this essential instruction, the very next verse says: "It shall exist (hayah – it was, is, and will be) that if you really listen to (sama’ sama’ – pay extremely close attention to and actually hear) the voice of Yahuweh, your God, and you revere, keep, and carefully observe(samar – closely examine and scrutinize, care about, cling to, become secure in, and benefit from)and do (‘asah – accomplish and celebrate) all My precepts (miswah – authoritative directions and prescriptions) that I instruct (sawah – and direct) you this day, Yahuweh, your God will place and appoint you (natan – grant you the opportunity to be) as the most high (‘elyon) among and above(‘al) all (kol) the nations (Gowym – people from different races and places) of the earth (‘erets). And flowing over you will be all of the blessings (barakah – beneficial promises and valuable gifts), continuing to overtake and inundate (nasag) you, if you listen to the voice of Yahuweh, your God." (Deuteronomy 28:1-2) The Torah’s message is as wonderful as it is consistent, as rewarding as it is enlightening. God just said that the Torah’s instructions exist to bless us.

Paul not only removed the cited Deuteronomy passage from the context which illuminated its meaning, he misquoted it. Please compare Paul’s: "All are accursed who do not continually obey all that is written in the scroll of the Law, doing it" (Galatians 3:10), with Yahweh’s:"Cursed is whoever is not established (quwm – restored, supported, caused to stand, lifted up, confirmed, and caused to endure) by the words (dabar – the message) of this Towrah (towrah), accomplishing and celebrating (‘asah – gaining from, doing useful and productive things, and working) with them." (Deuteronomy 27:26) This will not be the last time Sha’uwl will misquote the Torah. In fact, he will make a practice of it.




Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline James  
#14 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:16:03 AM(UTC)
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dan wrote:
Side note...

"Satur-day" comes from the Latin for "Saturn’s day," a pagan day of worship of the planet Saturn (astrology).

There are arguements that people wearing crosses, or take part in Easter, are doing pagan things. If that arguement is true, it can also be applied to the Sabbeth. (Unless the aruement itself is in error)



Again, we do not keep Saturday; we keep the Sabbath, the seventh day. Engaging in Pagan practices is condemned throughout Scripture, and Easter, Christmas and crosses, probably the three most recognizable symbols of Christianity are as pagan as you can get. So to compare adopting pagan practices, something Yahowah said he hated (see the open letters in revelation, and study who the Nicolaitans were, the ones God said he hated, and what they taught.), to keeping Yahowah’s Sabbath as he asked us to, is the height of ignorance, and arrogance.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

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Offline James  
#15 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:16:48 AM(UTC)
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Dan, can you show us one place where God ever said that we are not to keep the Sabbath?
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline James  
#16 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:23:05 AM(UTC)
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Something else I just thought of.

This idea that because we can't perfectly keep God's law, we should just ignore it is absurd. Any cop will tell you that you can't drive a mile down the road with out violating some traffic law, does that mean we are free to speed, and ignore all the traffic laws? No it's an absurd idea. Just because we fall will fall short of keeping god's laws doesn't mean we should ignore them, or that we shouldn't keep them to the best of our ability, it just means that we will fail from time to time, and you know what, that's okay, because in His law, God put in a provision for that.

Christians seem to be of the mindset, god died for your sins, so lets go sin, oh except for the sins we don't like we will still condemn people for those ones, but the ones we choose to engage in, they're okay.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline RidesWithYah  
#17 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:24:37 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Instead, the only commands the apostles gave were to "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication."


You are so close to the truth. Keep reading!
Acts 15: 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

New believers were given simple things to start with, WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY WOULD THEN BE IN THE SYNAGOGUE EVERY SABBATH DAY, LEARNING THE LAW AS GIVEN THROUGH MOSES. And by the way, I was in mainstream Christianity for 35 years, and never heard a warning not to eat "things strangled", or blood. Bloody meat ("rare") was a staple in my family.

Why in the world would I want to be free *FROM* a blessing like the Sabbath? It truly is a delight...
Offline Noach  
#18 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:28:43 AM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

With all due respect to those who have posted responses to Dan, I do not think he came to this website for the purpose of learning anything. I know that your responses are well intentioned, but Dan is more concerned with religion than relationship. His post is so filled with the standard religious nonsense, it is obvious he came here to make a point, not to learn. I would be very surprised if he even comes back to respond to the obvious errors in his post, as that would be contrary to his agenda. Someone that irrational will not deal with the truth so many have provided. Dan didn't bother reding one word of Yada Yahweh before he posted his religious nonsense. What makes you think he will bother reading anything you have written to refute his post? I think it's obvious that he could care less. I would just exclude him from the forum.
Offline Walt  
#19 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 11:43:36 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Noach wrote:
With all due respect to those who have posted responses to Dan, I do not think he came to this website for the purpose of learning anything. I know that your responses are well intentioned, but Dan is more concerned with religion than relationship. His post is so filled with the standard religious nonsense, it is obvious he came here to make a point, not to learn. I would be very surprised if he even comes back to respond to the obvious errors in his post, as that would be contrary to his agenda. Someone that irrational will not deal with the truth so many have provided. Dan didn't bother reding one word of Yada Yahweh before he posted his religious nonsense. What makes you think he will bother reading anything you have written to refute his post? I think it's obvious that he could care less. I would just exclude him from the forum.


I agree with your assessment of Dan, but I willing to give him the benefit of doubt initially. There may be a spark of "seeker" in him that can be flamed that I'm willing to give a chance to.
But if they refuse to even look or examine - then I'm done.
If one isn't seeking, debate is a waste.
Offline James  
#20 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 12:18:26 PM(UTC)
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RidesWithYah wrote:
You are so close to the truth. Keep reading!
Acts 15: 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.

New believers were given simple things to start with, WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT THEY WOULD THEN BE IN THE SYNAGOGUE EVERY SABBATH DAY, LEARNING THE LAW AS GIVEN THROUGH MOSES. And by the way, I was in mainstream Christianity for 35 years, and never heard a warning not to eat "things strangled", or blood. Bloody meat ("rare") was a staple in my family.

Why in the world would I want to be free *FROM* a blessing like the Sabbath? It truly is a delight...


Great point, i'm kicking myself for not brining it up. It is also a great example of what I was saying about not taking the disciples' words as God's Word. They didn't want people doing what they told them, they wanted people to read the Torah, and listen to what Yahowah had to say.

This is also a great example of how taking verses out of context leads to errant conclusions.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline VinceB.  
#21 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 12:33:27 PM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

Wow!

Praise Yah!

Coming out of Pauling pagan Christianity - all I can think to say about those post refuting Paul's stuff is: WOW!

Best advice I can give is: zoom this page as 'big' as you need to...and actually look at the words said. The Words of what Yah said over and against what man/men have said...

Thanks to everyone posting - and to James, thank you so much for taking the time to painstakeningly presenting the evidence from Yahowah's perspective in His Torah...
HWHY
Offline Mailman Dan  
#22 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 2:12:34 PM(UTC)
Mailman Dan
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
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Location: texas

Quote:
With all due respect to those who have posted responses to Dan, I do not think he came to this website for the purpose of learning anything. I know that your responses are well intentioned, but Dan is more concerned with religion than relationship


All I notied was the hated. I often speak to many people of different faith, and some that I find to be cults, give themselves away by attacking the scriptures themself, as well as those who use them. I know the relationship with the God of the bible, but I assure you that both of us do not have the same one. In accordance with the second commandment, many people take and chose what scriptures to believe, thus forming a god in their mind to fit their beliefs. That is why there are so many cults within the world, and likely why your in one as well. As for me, I take time to study, to make sure I know the Living God, who has shown Himself clearly, both in creation and through scriptures.

I have no respect for people who open post in hatered. I have often spoke to people in the RCC, over the subject of Mary worship. They are no different in lashing out at the person, as most cults do. Some of you show no difference.

I respect people like James, who take the time to break down thoughts, and ideas. Even though we are at odds, there is no hate or anger directed at a person coming from him. You lose creditablity when you show yourself to be as an animal, attacking people before an arguement.

Please cosinder manners before posting..

Thanks..

Dan
Offline Noach  
#23 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 8:26:39 PM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Dan,

This website is dedicated to Yahuwah’s Torah. The evidence contained within the Torah and proclaimed on this website is so overwhelming, so compelling, so irrefutable, to disregard it and write what you did is irrational to me. Instead of taking the time to read the evidence Yada Yahweh has provided, you irrationally espoused your religious agenda. If you took the time to study as you say, you wouldn’t have written what you did.

I am flawed to be sure. I have very little patience, especially when it comes to jealousy for the Torah. I do not hate you, only what you wrote. There are many on this forum that have far more patience than I do, and I commend them for that. They will try to refute your position until the cows come home in the hopes of convincing you of your errors. But based on what you have posted, you could care less what Yahuwah actually wrote in the Torah, so I don’t think anyone on this forum will be able to convince you otherwise. But I am sure you will continue to have irrational, albeit well mannered conversations with them.

Instead of spouting off religious mumbo jumbo, why don’t you take the time to read Yada Yahweh and then post intelligently based on what you have read?

Noach
Offline Richard  
#24 Posted : Saturday, June 4, 2011 10:01:28 PM(UTC)
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Yet another one of those people who perceive as hatred anything that is not carefully worded to conform to a politically correct standard. Was Yahowsha being hateful when He vigorously withstood the rabbis to their arrogant faces or when He charged through the temple, slinging a whip and throwing over the tables of the moneychangers? No. He was loving Yahowah in an appropriate way, as are we when we respond as we do to those who actively hate our Father by serving Pauline Christianity in any of its abhorrent flavors.

Offline Striver  
#25 Posted : Monday, June 6, 2011 11:23:27 AM(UTC)
Striver
Joined: 4/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Missouri

You are right Dan. We do not worship the same god. You worship the lord of the bible. We revere, cling to, rely upon, bless, and call upon the name of Yahowah, the Mighty One of the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms.

You come to us as Paul came to the people in his time. Cloaking your contempt in self serving righteousness. Putting up contrary and deceptive arguments. You have come to the wrong place if you were expecting some kind of praise for the "wisdom" you believe you possess. My friends teach and counsel, and are open minded to those who are seeking the truth. They will take the time to refute untruths not for their sake, but yours. And when they lay down their arguments they only request the respect of an educated response.

You did not come here seeking knowledge nor even dialog. You came as Paul came, with an agenda. When you are ready to lay religion down and seek Him, who wants to add you to his family, come back. There are many outstanding men and women here who will support your search for truth, when you are ready for the truth.
Offline VinceB.  
#26 Posted : Monday, June 6, 2011 12:14:35 PM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

Striver wrote:
You are right Dan. We do not worship the same god. You worship the lord of the bible. We revere, cling to, rely upon, bless, and call upon the name of Yahowah, the Mighty One of the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms.

You come to us as Paul came to the people in his time. Cloaking your contempt in self serving righteousness. Putting up contrary and deceptive arguments. You have come to the wrong place if you were expecting some kind of praise for the "wisdom" you believe you possess. My friends teach and counsel, and are open minded to those who are seeking the truth. They will take the time to refute untruths not for their sake, but yours. And when they lay down their arguments they only request the respect of an educated response.

You did not come here seeking knowledge nor even dialog. You came as Paul came, with an agenda. When you are ready to lay religion down and seek Him, who wants to add you to his family, come back. There are many outstanding men and women here who will support your search for truth, when you are ready for the truth.


Dang Striver, that was good what you affirmed of Paul, and his Christianity, verses Yah and what He said in the TPP...

HWHY
Offline Mailman Dan  
#27 Posted : Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:09:54 PM(UTC)
Mailman Dan
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: texas

Quote:
You are right Dan. We do not worship the same god. You worship the lord of the bible. We revere, cling to, rely upon, bless, and call upon the name of Yahowah, the Mighty One of the Torah, Prophets, and Psalms.




THE LIFE OF CHRIST O.T. PROPHECY N.T. FULFILLMENT
1 He was born from human mother Genesis 3:15 Gal.4:4; Matt.1:20f
2 He was born from a virgin woman Isaiah 7:14 Matt.1:18f; Lk.1:26f
3 He is the Son of God Psalm 2:7 Matt. 3:17, etc.
4 He is descended from Abraham Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1
5 He is descended from Isaac Genesis 21:12 Matt.1:2; Lk.3:23
6 He is descended from Jacob Numbers 24:17 Matt.1:2; Lk.3:23-34
7 He is descended from Judah Gen.49:10; Mic.5:2 Matt.1:2; Lk.3:23-33
8 He is descended from Jesse Isaiah 11:1,10 Matt.1:6; Lk.3:23-32
9 He is descended from David Jeremiah 23:5 Luke 3:23-31, etc.
10 He was born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matt.2:1; Lk.2:4-7
11 Wise Men give gifts Ps.72:10; Is.60:6 Matthew 2:1-11
12 Herod killed children Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16
13 Preceded by Messenger (John) Is.40:3; Mal.3:1 Matt. 3:1-3; 11:10f
14 Anointed with the Holy Spirit Is. 11:2; 61:1 Matt.3:16f;Lk.4:16ff
15 Ministry begins in Galilee Isaiah 9:1 Matthew 4:12-17
16 Ministry of Miracles Is.35:5-6; 32:3-4 Matt.4:24 8:17 9:35
17 Palm Sunday, rides donkey Zechiariah 9:9 Matthew 21:1-11
18 He entered Temple Malachi 3:1 Matthew 21:12
19 He was betrayed by a friend Ps.41:9 55:12-14 Matt.26; Jn.13
20 He was sold for 30 silver coins Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 26:15
21 Money thrown into God's House Zechariah 11:13 Matthew 27:5
22 Price for potter's field Zechariah 11:13 Matthew 27:7
23 He was forsaken by His disciples Zechariah 13:7 Matt. 26:31,56
24 Accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matt. 26:59-60
25 He was silent before accusers Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:12
26 He was wounded and bruised Isaiah 53:5 Matthew 27:26
27 Peopel hit and spit on Him Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67
28 He was mocked Psalm 22:7-8 Matt. 27:31,43
29 His hands and feet were pierced Psalm 22:16 Lk.24:39f Jn.20:25
30 He was crucified with thieves Isaiah 53:12 Matt.27:38 Lk.23.33
31 He prayed for His persecutors Isaiah 53:12 Luke 23:34
32 Rejected by His own people Isaiah 53:3 John 1:11; 7:5,48
33 People hated Him for no reason Psalm 69:4 John 15:25
34 Friends stood far away Psalm 38:11 Lk.23:49;Mt.27:55
35 People shook their heads at Him Ps.22:7; 109:25 Matthew 27:39
36 People stared at Him Psalm 22:17 Luke 23:35
37 Soldiers gamble for His clothes Psalm 22:18 Matt.27:35;Jn.19:23f
38 He suffered thirst Ps.22:15; 69:21 John 19:28
39 He was offered vinegar & gall Psalm 69:21 Matt.27:34;Jn.19:28f
40 He cried out, forsaken by God Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
41 He trusted God with His life Psalm 31:5 Luke 23:46
42 Darkness over the land Amos 8:9 Matthew 27:45
43 His bones were not broken Psalm 34:20 John 19:31-36
44 His side was pierced Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34,37
45 Buried in a rich man's tomb Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-60
46 He rose to life again Ps. 16:10; 30:3
Is.53:10-11 etc. Matt.28 Mk.16 Lk.24
Jn.20; Acts 2:24
47 He ascended to heaven Psalm 68:18 Acts 1:9
48 Seated at Father's right hand Psalm 110:1 Mk.16:19; Heb.1:3
49 He sends the Holy Spirit Joel 2:28 Acts 2:1-4
50 Christ will come again Daniel 7:13-14


Have you also rejected the cornerstone?

Yes, we have a diffeent God. One of us has the blood payment in the Christ, one does not..

Offline Daniel  
#28 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 4:09:47 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

Mailman Dan wrote:
Have you also rejected the cornerstone?

Yes, we have a diffeent God. One of us has the blood payment in the Christ, one does not..


If by "the Christ" you mean Yeshua bin Yousef bar Bethlehem who lived in the first century of the current era (you know, he was a builder by trade, had a beard, wore sandals, was always in the synagogue or temple on Shabbot), then we are talking about the same guy.

His blood that was spilled during his execution is the blood that covers for my (ever growing) list of sins.

I (and many others here) have elected to really take his words and way of life seriously and do things the way he did. The first thing on his list was to keep Torah.

He was the only person who ever was 100% Torah observant.

He also never said "stop keeping Torah".

"Rejected the cornerstone"? Far from it, sir, we have embraced the cornerstone and are attempting to live in the manner that would be pleasing to him.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Striver  
#29 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 10:18:43 AM(UTC)
Striver
Joined: 4/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Missouri

Thank you for agreeing with me about not having the same god. You also prove my point in your reply.

Do you know when, how, or from what the term "Christ" originated? Do you know who put the numerous bilbles together? Why are there numberous bibles? Blind acceptance is not understanding. Wisdom is not acquired by rote. Truth is not built on faith. Faith is not the Rock.

You can type out a thousand passages and ten thousand words and you still won't change the facts. So for your sake, we all urge you to, "DON'T BELIEVE US, FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF."
Offline Walt  
#30 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 10:38:05 AM(UTC)
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Dan
If you are will to look & see, the Greek word used to justify the words jesus & christ are not in 1 single pre-Constantine manuscript
If it was not a legitamate name or title to the writers and scribes in the first few centuries, why would it be now (other than by "tradition")
Offline cgb2  
#31 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:52:46 AM(UTC)
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I found this to be interesting in the du Tillet Hebrew version of Matthew.

Mattithyahu 12:5 “Surely you read in the Torah that preists profaned the Shabat in the Main Hall and there is no accused?
12:6 “But I say to you that here is a Great, more than the main hall is He!
12:7* “But if you knew what it is, ‘Favor, Mercy I desire and not sacrifice,’ you would not convict the guiltless.
12:8 “For YaHoWaH He is the son of Adam and also the Shabat.”
Offline FredSnell  
#32 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:11:35 AM(UTC)
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hi all,...and hi dan, welcome.
I'm not crazy for the errant use of the Messiyahs name on this site, but the comparisons from Paul and Yahushua' teachings are striking. http://www.wordwiz72.com/paul.html

Remind me later if interested. I have a funny story of a christian trying to put the "holy ghost" in me last Friday, day before 7, 7's. He should be very grateful, the "ruwach" was there for him in a sense, bc he almost had 5, 5's if it hadn't been for Her.

Offline bigritchie  
#33 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 3:49:30 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 4/15/2010(UTC)
Posts: 305
Location: USA

It really blows my mind that christians think "Jesus" came to free them from taking a day off................Do these religious people also think "Jeeeeeeeebbbbbuuuus" came so they can have sex with their mothers?

/facepalm

perhaps you christians should go read your Bible! You might then at least know that the Sabbath day is forever and everlasting!
Offline FredSnell  
#34 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 3:30:46 AM(UTC)
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bigritchie wrote:
It really blows my mind that christians think "Jesus" came to free them from taking a day off................Do these religious people also think "Jeeeeeeeebbbbbuuuus" came so they can have sex with their mothers?


Is there a word for spewing your morning coffee...That was funny!...Yea, yea, here jesus, i wanna work today, pls pls let me work!...

What I can't wait for, is when I get to rest forever. Haven't taken a vacation in over 25yrs. So when Sabbath arrives at the end of every week, this fella loves coming to rest with Him.
Offline Mailman Dan  
#35 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 1:40:50 PM(UTC)
Mailman Dan
Joined: 6/2/2011(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: texas

Do you think blasphemy is funny?

The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected I guess. There is the issue of putting pearls before swine the scriptures speak of, and i'm thinking i've probably done that.

I had not been posting because I was taking the time to look at the book Yada had wrote that james had been speaking of, but with the hate and slader of those searching the scriptures for truth, I can see your the same people that would have killed Christ, and still wish death to the follower of the Messiah today.

You've taken your personal opinions and created a small group of people claimimg they have special insight to the "truth" while denying scripture that has been studied by far more generations of people than an other book your willing to take at face value. (sounds like mormonism..somewhat.. just without the golden tablets, and alot smaller)

Continue to work your way as far as you can, not having the payment required. Nothing in my hands I bring, only to the Cross I cling.
Offline FredSnell  
#36 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 3:28:58 PM(UTC)
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Mailman Dan wrote:
Do you think blasphemy is funny?

The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected I guess. There is the issue of putting pearls before swine the scriptures speak of, and i'm thinking i've probably done that.


I for one am sorry that you feel offended by me or anyone else here, Dan. I can tell you for certain, I am the board idiot and I would never think myself more knowlegeable than you or anyone that loves reading scripture, so they can better understand our Fathers desires. I have said many offensive things when I first arrived and not one person here has ever held anything against me. They have welcomed all and gave insight to scripture that they never had to share. This was not required of a one, they all gave freely, just as they are doing with you. You are just easily offended I suppose (just like alot of christians are), but don't be. The reason they take their time for the most part is because the love, they have for our Creator just as you and I do. We are all in the widerness just some are at the front of the journey, and YHWH is revealing things to mankind at this time that many will not awaken to. For all its richness and wisdom the Bible provides, you and I must remember that it came forth from a people who began their existence as nomads, first from the lands of the fertile crescent, later from slavery, and also from conquests by Babylon (Persia) and Rome. The books were produced at different times, under many different conditions, by writers who often did not know of each other and were not familiar with each other’s works. The Bible itself was not even compiled into its current form until several centuries after the last event in it (other than prophecies) had occurred. The early Followers did not go to their worship services carrying their neatly-packaged Bibles — the Bible was yet be developed and, in those early times, differing communities of Followers (not to mention the 1st chosen,Yahudim from whom the Covenant of the Bible originated) had very different and sometimes conflicting compilations which only a few could actually possess in those days before inexpensive printing and production methods. Not until early in the fourth century A.D. did councils of mortal men vote to decide which books would be in and which would be out in the final compilation of a standardized Bible. (And even today the process is not fully agreed upon, as Catholic and Protestant Bibles have differing numbers of books, and varying translations of the Bible include or exclude various contested passages.) It is ironic to me that many evangelical Bible literalists claim that catholics are not true christians (they most certainly are), yet they claim divine infallibility of a specific set of ancient writings selected and compiled by the very body whose theology they find fatally suspect.
I hope you will continue with reading YY. I know many caught up in the teachings of christianity have a harder time recognizing these truths. It does take some time to shake the past, but when you do make the turn, man are you going to be glad you did.
When you say, paraphrasing, people have studied for centuries these manuscipts. Just remember brother, up till this century there were people that had thoughts of one race being superior to another. The study of "eugenics" is still happening in certain cicles today, and is better known as "Planned Parethood." ( a form of hidden racism) You would think, man with all his knowledge would have known this in the 1st century...We are all equal, but still today, we have some that think they are better. And here it is, 21st century people, still wrong. But how can that be, people have been here since creation. I hope you get my message brother.
These brothers and sisters are working out all that which was lost to us long ago, either through error or deception. And I suspect much more will be revealed to me either with help from these great people, or Father Himself will show me. I believe I will be learning until the day there is no time for learning. I hope you will in the end stay with us. We all cherish, "seekers" like ourselves. I know my brothers and sisters here know there's much more investigating to do because so much was corrupted and they will welcome you with open arms if you decide to stay and help unravel all that was lost and hidden. And if not, go in peace. We can move on. We will dust off our jeans and be glad if we assisted you in some way.
Shalom
Offline Walt  
#37 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 3:39:56 PM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

Mailman Dan wrote:
Do you think blasphemy is funny?

The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected I guess. There is the issue of putting pearls before swine the scriptures speak of, and i'm thinking i've probably done that.

I had not been posting because I was taking the time to look at the book Yada had wrote that james had been speaking of, but with the hate and slader of those searching the scriptures for truth, I can see your the same people that would have killed Christ, and still wish death to the follower of the Messiah today.

You've taken your personal opinions and created a small group of people claimimg they have special insight to the "truth" while denying scripture that has been studied by far more generations of people than an other book your willing to take at face value. (sounds like mormonism..somewhat.. just without the golden tablets, and alot smaller)

Continue to work your way as far as you can, not having the payment required. Nothing in my hands I bring, only to the Cross I cling.


Don't you (and christians in general) display the same "hate" towards pagan gods (& muslim) and religion?
That's how we view the christian religion and false gods

Remember - YOU came here to attack our beliefs

Notice that you won't address the issues & facts presented - just an "attack the messengers" so you have an excuse to ignore Truth in favor of religious traditions - religion & tradition are very POWERFUL chains of bondage
Are you afraid to discover that most all of what you have been taught & believed
You haven't refuted any of what we've presented about the lies of christianity & the bible

What happened to "always be ready to explain why you believe what you do"?
Definition of APOLOGETICS: systematic argumentative discourse in defense (as of a doctrine)

I challenge to you stay, engage, discuss, question, research, debate
Offline In His Name  
#38 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 6:31:59 PM(UTC)
In His Name
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Do you think blasphemy is funny?

BLASPHEMY! Jebus is not blasphemy, it is mockery. Mockery of you and your closed-mindedness, of your arrogant attempts to ‘save’ us, of your reluctance to engage in a conversation about the ideas that this site represents. You came into our house and trampled our beliefs, you didn’t even ask what we were about or try to understand; and now you get your nose bent out of shape when we don’t respect your ideas.

Jesus is blasphemy. There was no man named Jesus in the first century. Wake up man…there was no letter J or even a J sound in the first century. Do some research you dolt. No one on this site has called you anything but your name (until eleven words ago). You would not tolerate us calling you HuffNPuff (even though that is quite descriptive of the character you have presented), why do you think your creator and savior does not deserve the same courtesy!??! If you want to stay here, learn and use his glorious name. God’s name is YHWH, pronounced Yahuwah or maybe Yahowah (we don’t know the exact pronunciation because you religious idiots don’t care and didn’t bother to remember it for the last couple of millennia). He came to earth in human form as a man named Yahushua or Yahoshua. Even though these pronunciations may not be perfect they are certainly better than LORD and Jesus.


The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected I guess. There is the issue of putting pearls before swine the scriptures speak of, and i'm thinking i've probably done that.

That is not hatred, it is simply anger, born of the frustration of your type coming into our home and thinking we need your religion. In my first post to you, I politely and sincerely asked you stay and engage in a conversation and to attempt to understand our principles. I also politely told you that your religious babble was meaningless to most of us since that is what we have rejected to come to where we now stand. But you have spent your time, as most of your ilk do, being righteously indignant about concepts and realities that you do not even understand.

And you can’t cast pearls when all you carry are stones.

I had not been posting because I was taking the time to look at the book Yada had wrote that james had been speaking of, but with the hate and slader of those searching the scriptures for truth, I can see your the same people that would have killed Christ, and still wish death to the follower of the Messiah today.

You have got to be kidding, did you really write that? AND YOU THINK WE ARE THE ONES WITH THE HATE AND SLANDER????

You've taken your personal opinions and created a small group of people claimimg they have special insight to the "truth" while denying scripture that has been studied by far more generations of people than an other book your willing to take at face value. (sounds like mormonism..somewhat.. just without the golden tablets, and alot smaller)

Hey we don’t have special underwear either, but don’t let that stop you in your “HATEFUL, SLANDEROUS” diatribe.

Continue to work your way as far as you can, not having the payment required. Nothing in my hands I bring, only to the Cross I cling.

Hey HuffNPuff, guess what…. You won’t find cross in the original texts of your bible either (just like easter, christmas, lent etc.etc., remember)…. Just what are you clinging to???? Crosses date back to Babylon and were scattered with the people when YHWH confused the languages. They ARE big time religious icons though so they do fit right in with your Christian religiosity; there are Egyptian crosses, Hindu crosses, nazi crosses, etc…. You might want to look at the company you keep around that cross.

Dan. There is very little about your religion that is from YHWH. Your holidays are from men. Your icons and idols are from men. Your worship is from men. Most of these practices are of ancient pagan origin, some of it was created by the RCC. All of it is wrong and that is clearly and plainly spelled out in the TPP in the story of the Yahudim. You have HIS words in the TPP, but for the most part you ignore it, preferring your interpretations of men.

You do not have to take our word for it, although I think Yada has done the most comprehensive work, there are many corroborating voices. But first, before anything you have to want to know the truth. Not the Christian truth, not the Yada Yahweh truth… but God’s truth. To find that, you have to be willing to think differently. Don’t be afraid, if you are secure in Jesus’ truth (as you know it) then you will be safe.

However, if you are not willing to put your faith to the test, then leave us and bother us no more.


The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected...but with the hate and slader of those searching the scriptures for truth, I can see your the same people that would have killed Christ, and still wish death to the follower of the Messiah today.

WOW
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline VinceB.  
#39 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 7:43:23 PM(UTC)
VinceB.
Joined: 12/2/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228

Speaking of which, the only real blasphemy & mockery isn't in our taking Yahowah at His Word -TPP- (and as close to paleo-Hebrew as we can get - and as He Himself reveals Himself to us) but it was in fact Paul and his twisted doctrines that blasphemed and made a mockery of Yahowah corpreal diminished manifestation: Yahowsha' (Yah Saves) in attributing all that Yah spent 4000 years, revealing and fulfilling Himself, was just so as to turn right around and promote Paul's new Gospel of Grace over and against Yah's Miqra'ey (Called-Out Assemblies - these Assemblies of Yah are as separated (set-apart) as is He), and all those promises Yah made to Abraham and to his descendants...and remember, Paul was not an eyewitness, he never spent three years at the feet of Yahowsha'; saw Him walking on water; feeding the thousands...Paul never spoke for anyone but Paul at the expense to Yah insofar as His family expansion that'll never happen because Christians believe Paul's stuff over Yah's.

And another thing that I'm coming to realize the more I research and meditate upon this whole New and Old Testament thing is: there's no old or new, there's just One God, One Covenant, One Family, One road, One Son/Lamb of Yah...and the Torah Prophets and Psalms/Writings are, is, and will always be Yahowah's Word to mankind, and that the new isn't the Word of Yah, but is historical eyewitness accounts of what transpired to fulfill Ma'aseyah Yahowsha' observing and fulfilling 4 of Yah's 7 Called-Out Assemblies...Peter James and John were all three eyewitnesses, where as Luke and Mark were not, and got their info 2nd hand...Paul, who again, was never an eyewitness, who claimed to have a special calling (and special revelation knowledge - you realize Paul brings up topics that are never mentioned anywhere else, such as speaking in tongues...the hierarchy of the church...) and who also wrote half of what's called the New Testament presents a Ma'aseyah Yahowsha' of Paul's own choosing that just so happens to contradict and is a counterfeit, and put-as-under, all that Yah ever said, did, or is going to do....you have no ideal how many times I've heard ministers/pastors/preachers tell me it's by grace we're saved through faith and not of ourselves being a gift of Paul, so says Paul, and preachers quote and accept Paul regardless of what Yahowah had to say about anything.

Paul was clearly, insofar as all I've read and understand about Paul, was, Paul was an agent of satan every bit as much as Muhammad was to Islam and Akiba was to Jews, all false religions block people from seeing Yahowah clearly as He's revealed Himself to us, and as if that's not enough, they gain power wealth and positions of esteem in the eyes of the masses their doctrines blind; imagine that, they go out of their way to blind their followers and then they profit off them...
HWHY
Offline Richard  
#40 Posted : Monday, June 13, 2011 11:48:25 PM(UTC)
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*sigh*

I am trying to decide whether to admire you guys for trying so tirelessly to reason with Mailman Dan or to dance about merrily like Gollum, singing, "I told you so!"

Well, whichever way I go, I'll thank you all for teaching me a lot. Good stuff has been posted here.

Richard
Offline James  
#41 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:34:24 AM(UTC)
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Dan wrote:
Do you think blasphemy is funny?


Where have any of us committed blasphemy? That is a serious charge to level and not back up with a shred of proof or explanation. I would hope you wouldn't level it capriciously.

Dan wrote:
The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected I guess. There is the issue of putting pearls before swine the scriptures speak of, and i'm thinking i've probably done that.


Those who love Yah always hate that which leads people away from Him. I hate religion, all of them, because all of them lead people away from Yahowah. I don't hate those deceived by religion, I feel sorry for them. So while I hate those who perpetrate religion, I do not hate those such as yourself who have been deceived by it, my heart goes out to you, and I wish to help you, but you do not seem interested in help so there is nothing I can do.

Dan wrote:
I had not been posting because I was taking the time to look at the book Yada had wrote that james had been speaking of, but with the hate and slader of those searching the scriptures for truth, I can see your the same people that would have killed Christ, and still wish death to the follower of the Messiah today.


WOW. This is the worst case of attack the messenger rather than the message I have ever heard. No one here has made any comment or any statement that could possibly insinuate, or imply that Christians should be killed. No one here wants to see you or anyone else deceived by the religion of Christianity die.

By the way, you are the one who has not taken the time to engage in a debate and rationally discuss difference. You are the one who has resorted to name calling and labeling at every step. We have presented you with pages and pages of evidence and reason for our position, you have in turn accused us of wanting to kill Christians, Christ and called us legalistic, and blasphemous, as opposed to addressing anything we have said.

Yada wrote:
You've taken your personal opinions and created a small group of people claimimg they have special insight to the "truth" while denying scripture that has been studied by far more generations of people than an other book your willing to take at face value. (sounds like mormonism..somewhat.. just without the golden tablets, and alot smaller)


No one here claims special insight, none of us claim a special revelation. All we have done is invested the time to study Yah's Scripture without the preconceived notions of man.

So many of the Yahuwdy of Yahosha's time followed the teachings of traditions and interpretations of Scripture, and rejected Yahowsha'. Just because your religious view has existed for a long time, does not make it right.

So why not, instead of labeling and name calling do you not examine our evidence and reason, and show us the flaws?

If all you have to offer is name calling, then please just leave, we have no interest in people who are not interested in debate and discussion, and it is becoming clearer and clearer that you are not interested in discussion.

Dan wrote:
Continue to work your way as far as you can, not having the payment required. Nothing in my hands I bring, only to the Cross I cling.


Again you demonstrate a complete lack of having considered anything anyone else has said. Not one person here has said that we can or must work for salvation, yet you continue to believe that we hold this position.

And you can cling to the pagan cross if you desire, sadly it will do you know good in the end.

As for me I will cling to Yahowah, and His Word, and I will trust and rely upon His plan of Salvation.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Walt  
#42 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2011 4:36:51 AM(UTC)
Walt
Joined: 10/26/2008(UTC)
Posts: 374
Man

flintface wrote:
*sigh*

I am trying to decide whether to admire you guys for trying so tirelessly to reason with Mailman Dan or to dance about merrily like Gollum, singing, "I told you so!"

Well, whichever way I go, I'll thank you all for teaching me a lot. Good stuff has been posted here.

Richard


Richard, many many people come here without posting or joining, they just come here and read, it's as much for their benefit.
Offline Daniel  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:22:05 AM(UTC)
Daniel
Joined: 10/24/2010(UTC)
Posts: 694
Location: Florida

encounterHim wrote:



checking out this site reveals:

Quote:

Salvation Without Conversion?

Hagee is recognized as a fierce foe of anti-Semitism. An outspoken supporter of the Jewish people, Judaism, and the nation Israel, he has been given the "Humanitarian of the Year" award by the San Antonio B'nai B'rith Council. Hagee has also been bestowed the "ZOA Israel Service Award" by the Zionist Organization in Dallas and honored with the "Henrietta Szold Award" by the Texas Southern Region of Hadassah.8

While his bold stance against anti-Semitism is certainly praiseworthy, Hagee's zealousness for the Jewish people and their cause has led him to commit a most serious doctrinal error — salvation for the Jews without conversion to Christianity. One newspaper account puts it this way:

Trying to convert Jews is a "waste of time," he [Hagee] said. . . .

Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha'i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced with Christianity, he says.


(emphasis mine)

Whoa!

I have to agree with John Hagee's 'heresy'!

I hate that!
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Striver  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:45:08 AM(UTC)
Striver
Joined: 4/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Missouri

HuffnPuff, lol, In His Name. Flint, I hope you don't look like Gollum in an outback hat, lol.

I doubt that Huffy knows what charge was brought against Yahushua that got Him hung on a pole. It was blasphemy,
Puffy. He had the audacity to speak His Father's set-apart name.

Listen Huffpuffy, the more you post the more ignorance (lack of knowledge) you show. Again, you don't know what you don't know. We know what you know because we started where you are now. The difference is we realized the more we searched the more we had to justify (lie to ourselves so that we could believe) what we were doing. We all reached a point where we could justify our beliefs no longer. At that point we found ourselves standing in the wilderness and out of Babylon.

And yes, consider yourself slandered.
Offline FredSnell  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:50:11 AM(UTC)
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Daniel wrote:



(emphasis mine)

Whoa!

I have to agree with John Hagee's 'heresy'!

I hate that!



lol...in this comic foil, I'll be the straight man, okay!
Offline bigritchie  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, June 15, 2011 6:36:23 AM(UTC)
bigritchie
Joined: 4/15/2010(UTC)
Posts: 305
Location: USA

Mailman Dan wrote:
Do you think blasphemy is funny?

The hate in the hearts of some of the people here is somewhat expected I guess. There is the issue of putting pearls before swine the scriptures speak of, and i'm thinking i've probably done that.

I had not been posting because I was taking the time to look at the book Yada had wrote that james had been speaking of, but with the hate and slader of those searching the scriptures for truth, I can see your the same people that would have killed Christ, and still wish death to the follower of the Messiah today.

You've taken your personal opinions and created a small group of people claimimg they have special insight to the "truth" while denying scripture that has been studied by far more generations of people than an other book your willing to take at face value. (sounds like mormonism..somewhat.. just without the golden tablets, and alot smaller)

Continue to work your way as far as you can, not having the payment required. Nothing in my hands I bring, only to the Cross I cling.


lol Blasphemy? Puuuuulllleeeeeaaaasssseeee

See, here is your problem Mr. Mailman.

#1 You have never actually read the Bible, even in its maligned English modern day forms and versions. Memorizing a few sentences called "verses" (Which were added to further dumb down the masses) taken out of context that reinforces your religious beliefs does not count!

#2 You have zero idea that the Creator makes it clear over and over his law/Torah/instructions are FOREVER, that His Sabbath is forever, that is ordinances are forever He mad this very clear and told us ANYONE who says otherwise is a liar and false prophet!

On one hand you argue that Torah is done away with, but then you call my comments blasphemous. Hey christian let me let you in on something, if JEEEEEBBBBBUUUUUUS did away with the Sabbath, he did away with the LAW to not have sex with your mother also! You cannot argue it both ways! Either Torah is in effect or it is not. What is so sad is in reality , I AM THE ONE standing up and defending Y'shua from you christians!

I could go on and on about the Torah being forever, and how both the Creator say this, and Y'shua teaches this, but you christians simply do not care what they said, because your real god, the false Apostle Paul says otherwise!
Offline Richard  
#47 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:49:37 AM(UTC)
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And don't fall for or submit to any teachings of the rabbis who follow the Talmud and/or other "oral traditions", such as referring to Yahowah as "G-d" or "ha shem" or "Adonay".
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