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Offline jatrom  
#1 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 7:34:51 AM(UTC)
jatrom
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Location: Namibia

Hi,
I'm currently preparing for a race end-of-year. Problem is, the event will be held on a Sabbath(Saterday). Should I participate or just forget the whole thing. I would REALLY like to do this, but started to keep Sabbath recently. How would you approach this?
Offline FredSnell  
#2 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 1:14:34 PM(UTC)
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Hi back at cha, jatrom...I'm not going to go out of my way here, but let me ask you something,,,,remember what day Yah created man? It was the 6th day, right!!!...So just ask yourself, what did Yah create before the 6th day? That answer is, everything. And if Yah created everything before you, why would you believe He doesn't want you to enjoy that day?...We personally enjoy it resting just bc we need it, but for me, I see everything created for my enjoyment and if I work 6 days, leaves me little time for enjoying His creation...IMO!...I await others answers.
Offline tagim  
#3 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 1:52:29 PM(UTC)
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encounterHim, you got me again. Your answer is confusing to me, and probably not the least to Jatrom, who, it appears has a genuine concern. After a bunch of advice and statements, you leave it with ...let others answer. I will have a similar conflict with Sabbath coming up soon, and I suspect others will have issues that conflict with Sabbath now and then. More likely Jatrom's post could be stated something like, "Because of conflicts, I am going to specifically violate a Sabbath requirement. Can I do this and somehow again believe myself capable and worthy to Yah? And what must I do thereafter to accomplish this?" And I must fess up, I need the answer myself, but incapable of formulating one.
Offline RidesWithYah  
#4 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 3:54:58 PM(UTC)
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Six days shall work be done, and in the seventh day a sabbath of cessation, a set apart meeting; any work you shall not do, it is a sabbath to Yahweh in all of your dwellings. - Lev 23:3.

"Cessation" is much different than running.
And will your running cause others to work?
Concessions, road control, crowd control?
Setting up? Taking down? Cleaning port-a-potties?

I recently passed on an opportunity to do a NASCAR "driving experience" for the very same reasons;
yet haven't made a clean break from my son's little league baseball games. (Still struggling!)

Peace.
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 7:00:38 PM(UTC)
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RidesWithYah wrote:
...yet haven't made a clean break from my son's little league baseball games. (Still struggling)


Tell me about it, my son's soccer club has made an internal league event over the next 4 weeks on Saturday mornings. My wife signed him up for it, even after I kept trying to put it off.

Sabbathing is still something I struggle with, especially as my employer still requires me to work every other Friday night (night shift, and I am still relatively new, and the job came at a desperate time for me), though I'm hoping for it to end sometime as I progress into other positions and get a normal regular day shift pattern with Saturdays off), and my family is pretty much not into Yahweh, like I am. They might be Jewish but they still work on Saturdays, and the other side is Catholic, need I say more. And my wife (non-believer) works nearly every Saturday, the busiest day of the week for her company.

jatrom, let me take you back to this thread, it might provide some insight: http://www.yadanews.com/...n-about-the-Sabbath.aspx
Offline jatrom  
#6 Posted : Monday, May 16, 2011 7:05:26 PM(UTC)
jatrom
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
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Location: Namibia

Thanks for all the input. It confirms the fact that 'keeping Sabbath' is no simple thing in a society which absolutely functions against it. I was a leader of a very 'blessed' congregation up until a week or so ago, but asked to step down because of a total overall of my 'belief system' - if you can call it like that. Me and my household had our first Sabbath the past week. Nothing miraculous happened and to be honest, it felt weird and yet 'appropriate' at the same time. It looks like a lonely road is up ahead, but I trust Yah that He will soon give me company in the form of a friend or such that are willing to investigate see for himself that we were really caught up in a paganistic religion.
Concerning my sporting event up ahead, I'm currently convinced to let it go - although I will still, for some time at least, pray about it and see whether a acceptable 'line of reasoning' may allow me. I however acknowledge the danger of 'reasoning' appose to just being obedient.
Offline FredSnell  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 1:33:31 AM(UTC)
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Tagim, sorry but I gave NO advice to jatrom, but let me ask you something then. You're set for the Sabbath with Father. You got up Sabbath morning and have done what you usually do on that day. Suddenly a fire breaks out, or a neighbors dog is tearing at a kid through your window or anything like this or that. Or you just go attend Torah Class or any class on that day. To help others or not, or just helping ourselves, as long as it's not the grind of your subsistence for living. Is jatrom earning a living while riding a bike? Then I definitely would say NO.
I'm not asking or telling anyone anything about violating the Sabbath, tagim. You and I must see it different. If I'm not forcing someone to work on Sabbath it doesn't fall on me if they choose to. But work to me is just that, work to provide and most that do on that day are lost, but those that go outside to just enjoy His creation and act upon the day as rest, no matter what form, are still resting when they are even enjoying a bike ride, or not. These folks doing road control and all were going to be there with or without me being there. Sorry, but I do view it different that most of you.
And to all the,"picking up sticks crowd" to me that is providing for your family.
And p.s....to quote, "I await others answers."....not, "let others answer."...I know this is a touchy subject with some, it's just not with me.
Offline James  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 3:08:33 AM(UTC)
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Matthew wrote:
jatrom, let me take you back to this thread, it might provide some insight: http://www.yadanews.com/...n-about-the-Sabbath.aspx


I think KP's post in this thread expresses it greatly.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline FredSnell  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 3:16:31 AM(UTC)
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again tagim...my fault and it took my wife to show me. I wrote, "We personally enjoy it resting just bc we need it."...I meant, sleeping. To me that is resting, totally...so I do see my 1st statement as confusing now that she showed me..sorry.
Offline Steve in PA  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:10:54 AM(UTC)
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Until He comes and establishes His Kingdom and Reign, and sets His calendar as the standard and directly teaches us His ways, I'm doubtful that many of His people are: remembering, keeping, observing and doing the Sabbath exactly right. Think about it, the current systems for the most part follow a westernized calendar. I do not think that using that calendar and observing every saturn-day as the Sabbath is right. Yet, those caught up in religious "Judaism" and I'd say a majority of His people called out of "babylon" use that calendar vs. Yah's methods of months and moons.

For right now I believe the key is to be learning about Him and developing a relationship with Him by spending time with Him, studying His scriptures and doing our best to observe and practice His instructions as best as we can until that day.

Many of His people are somewhat isolated, living, learning and walking with Him on their own little island, so to speak. I am so looking forward to the days where I can walk hand in hand with others following His instruction and gathering for His assemblies honoring Him. Right now I do not have that luxury. Even then, I am doubtful that we'll get it 100% right and perfect.

Yes, He calls us to be set-apart. Yes, we are to be doing and teaching His commandments and instructions as best as we can. No, I do not believe that we need to fear that He is keeping a strict ledger of everything that we do not get right and that He will cast us away using a record of our sin. He Himself with no sin paid that debt for us.

The guy in "Chariots of Fire" didn't run a race on a sun-day thinking he was observing the Sabbath. If he knows Him and His Salvation, that is not what saved him. He will have Life now if he loved and trusted in Yahuwah and was born from and covered by His Set-Apart Spirit.

HalleluYah!

Hi,
I'm currently preparing for a race end-of-year. Problem is, the event will be held on a Sabbath(Saterday). Should I participate or just forget the whole thing. I would REALLY like to do this, but started to keep Sabbath recently. How would you approach this?

I would pray about. Open your heart and mind to Him as you prepare, ask Him to be with you by His Spirit and make known to you what He wants you to do.
Offline Daniel  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 6:10:09 AM(UTC)
Daniel
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jatrom wrote:
I was a leader of a very 'blessed' congregation up until a week or so ago, but asked to step down because of a total overall of my 'belief system' - if you can call it like that.


Do tell, good sir.
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline Noach  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 6:11:13 AM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Here are a couple of examples from scripture I think illustrate what is meant by rest:

"Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out. So the people rested on the seventh day" (Exodus 16:29-30).
"I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the Sabbath..." (NehemYAH 13:19).

Scripture is clear. What we add to it or take away from it is what becomes unclear. I think if we focus on the examples from the Towrah, it becomes very clear.

Hope this helps.
Offline tagim  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:12:30 AM(UTC)
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Okay, we violate the Sabbath, are set out. How do we get back in? How many tries? How grave our error? What will it take? These are all legitimate, current-time problems? Can we say it is okay until we get a temple and more sacrifices? Have they been abrogated? Have we all gone too far astray? Will there always? be a way back in? And it is always, like, "We are the best of the bunch!" Or at least we try to be, in discerning, anyway. I have no sound answer, and, to me, it seems a one-line NO, NO! presents not a sound biblical answer.
Offline Noach  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:29:50 AM(UTC)
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Tagim,

The sabbath is a gift from Yah, it is not meant to be a burden. Until we are able and ready to "matenoeo" - change our perspective, attitude, understanding, we will only see Yahuwah's gifts as problems. You can't love the Towrah without first changing your perspective.
Offline tagim  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:58:44 AM(UTC)
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Noach, I should have posted with more clarity and meaning, and purposeful. I do consider the Sabbath a gift, rare and beautiful; just the realization of how much more I have gained over decades of SunDays is wholesome and satisfying. The troubling parts are what more should I do and is what I do right. I believe my attitude and perspective are properly aligned, as much as for how little I know. It is for my family that concerns me most, how to win them all over for me to obtain that final mental peace.
Offline Noach  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 9:02:34 AM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

Tagim,

I understand your concern. In my case, my wife refuses to change her attitude toward the Towrah even though she understands it to be the correct path. She uses the sabbath as a convenient day to have me watch the kids so that she can go shopping. My parents think I am a "Jew". To make it worse, My Dad is an open anti-semite.

I share this because at some point, you come the realization that most people, even the ones you love the most, are unwilling to change their attitudes and perspectives. It is a very sad realization, but one that comes with knowing you have done all that you can. Unless they are willing to take that step towards Yah, and change their whole perspective, they will remain uncaring or even hostile to the Towrah.

For those of us who have taken that step and changed our attitude, the Towrah is freedom. The sabbath represents that gift of freedom. Unfortunately, those who are unwilling to take that step will never realize this.
Offline Daniel  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 11:00:32 AM(UTC)
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Noach wrote:
My parents think I am a "Jew".


My christian friends think I am a Jew, my Jewish friends think I am a christian.

(More or less)

Dan "Always Keep Them Guessing" N
Nehemiah wrote:
"We carried our weapons with us at all times, even when we went for water" Nehemiah 4:23b

We would do well to follow Nehemiah's example! http://OurSafeHome.net
Offline FredSnell  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:19:23 PM(UTC)
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I lifted this from:http://michaelrood.tv/faq/Sabbath/How_does_one_remember_the_Sabbath_and_keep_it_holy_.html


How does one remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?
Unlike some commandments which can only be "kept" while living in the Promised Land, the commandment to remember the Sabbath day and to keep it holy is a commandment with no geographic boundaries. Keeping the Sabbath in the land of Israel (where the vast majority of the culture diligently "remembers" and does their best to "keep" the Sabbath) is much easier than it is while we are living among the heathen in exile. In my experience, learning how to remember and keep the Sabbath day holy is a lifelong journey, the perfection of which I am not likely to accurately define. Recognizing that the Sabbath is the day that our Creator set aside for us to commune with Him and rest in Him, remembering the Sabbath day and keeping it holy is more of a pursuit than an accomplishment.

Offline cgb2  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:29:43 PM(UTC)
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encounterHim wrote:
I lifted this from:http://michaelrood.tv/faq/Sabbath/How_does_one_remember_the_Sabbath_and_keep_it_holy_.html


How does one remember the Sabbath and keep it holy?
Unlike some commandments which can only be "kept" while living in the Promised Land, the commandment to remember the Sabbath day and to keep it holy is a commandment with no geographic boundaries. Keeping the Sabbath in the land of Israel (where the vast majority of the culture diligently "remembers" and does their best to "keep" the Sabbath) is much easier than it is while we are living among the heathen in exile. In my experience, learning how to remember and keep the Sabbath day holy is a lifelong journey, the perfection of which I am not likely to accurately define. Recognizing that the Sabbath is the day that our Creator set aside for us to commune with Him and rest in Him, remembering the Sabbath day and keeping it holy is more of a pursuit than an accomplishment.


Seems even after the new heavens and earth sabbath still observed (Isaiah 66:23)
Offline FredSnell  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 5:35:25 AM(UTC)
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cgb2 wrote:
Seems even after the new heavens and earth sabbath still observed (Isaiah 66:23)



Right!...I was looking at just what length in the word, "chain" represents. I would have never thought it's 66ft....that was a surprise.

Now I'll go back and read (Isaiah 66:22)...since most definitions actually list a chains length, as 22yrds...lol

66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith YHWH, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Offline VinceB.  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 7:01:53 AM(UTC)
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"The Miqra’ey are not to be replaced by ceremonies and rituals conceived by man. Those who observe Easter Sunday, Rosh Hashanah, Christmas, Lent, All-Hallow’s Eve, St. Valentine’s Day, Ashura Day, Ramadan, the Summer Solstice, May Day, Janus’ New Year’s Day, or any other manmade poligious (political/religious) scheme, contribute to the deception and add to the fog which separates mankind from God," from YY's Book II Called-Out Assemblies Chapter 6 Shabuwa'

The most revealing aspect in participating is we loose our ability to be salt; and "adds to the fog which separates mankind from God..."

I'm preparing for this awesome festival/celebration of Shabuwa' and reading the material in that chapter, and thought I'd share; and I'm just saying
HWHY
Offline jatrom  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 8:34:24 AM(UTC)
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Like I've said before, I don't post much, but I observe a lot. I've been busy with church-stuff for the best part of 20 years now( not too long compared to others...). The past 8 months however I've stumbled upon Yada, KP, Swalchy, Messianics, Anti-Paul, Pro-Paul, etc.. Really enough viewpoints to drive any man insane - and I came very close to it on many occasions, believe me.
Really, there's a great enigma in all of this. Almost like quantum physics where nothing can be pinpointed exactly. There seems to be a superfine line between observance and freedom(hope I express myself correctly). We need to keep the Sabbath, but the moment anyone nails it down, everybody else starts to differ and complain - until you let go again, whereafter harmony starts to return again. It seems that as long as we agree that we need to keep Sabbath, everyone is happy - but beware that moment that somebody tries to tie it down in the form of specific 'rules' or 'procedures'. That moment spells the beginning of disagreements, arguments, opinions, etc..
Sorry for my ramblings, but I needed to say that out loud... Does it make any sense?!!?
Offline VinceB.  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:15:09 AM(UTC)
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I could not agree with you more, regarding the difficulties of observing the things of Yahowah that just so happens to dwell where it's always been: running counter clock wise to the entire pagan world around us...all the political, religious, and economic schemes devised by man creates an unbridgeable gulf.

Freedom, we all know (and have a very good understanding/working knowledge) of what freedom means; has never meant license insofar as I can tell - license, I believe, is what much of the world around us considers the meaning of freedom to be...

So, rather than freedom that leans toward license, we've been invited to a freedom that comes only from our coming to know and understand Yahowah in and through the relationship He's provided via His Sabbaths and Festival Feast Days He's articulated in and through the Torah, that in and of itself causes us to standout in the minds and eyes of our closest associates regardless of whether they bark/rebel against it, or warmingly consider/embrace it...and again, it isn't supposed to be popular since it does run counter clockwise to all that's going on around us.

Is it easy, again I understand and know there's nothing easy about it, particularly in this day and age -which is the whole point (if it were easy, everyone'd be doing it)- but it does offer us choice which is where freedom starts.

BTW, I virtually exactly where you are - discovering YY, and the Pauline related stuff, just about a year ago...welcome to the family of Yahowah!
HWHY
Offline James  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 9:22:29 AM(UTC)
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jatrom wrote:
Really, there's a great enigma in all of this. Almost like quantum physics where nothing can be pinpointed exactly. There seems to be a superfine line between observance and freedom(hope I express myself correctly). We need to keep the Sabbath, but the moment anyone nails it down, everybody else starts to differ and complain - until you let go again, whereafter harmony starts to return again. It seems that as long as we agree that we need to keep Sabbath, everyone is happy - but beware that moment that somebody tries to tie it down in the form of specific 'rules' or 'procedures'.


Very well stated. I think the quantum physics analogy is great. Yah's word was never meant to be a check list of do's and don't, if that was what he wanted he would have gave us that. What He wants is for us to study and observe His word, because by doing so we come to know Him. perfectly ceasing work on the Sabbath is not what is important, it's understanding what the Sabbath teaches us about Yah, and our relationship with Him that is important.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline VinceB.  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:54:43 PM(UTC)
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I wish I could/would just keep things simple?

What I really thought to say is, by observing Yah's Sabbaths and Feasts is the means by which we get to share what we know with the world around us (is what allows us to follow Ma'aseyah's life and example in being upright tools that Yah then uses to point people back to Himself)...observing it also allows Yah's Word to serve as a witness to our own being: is a witness to 'self' that we all have.

HWHY
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