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Offline RidesWithYah  
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 5, 2010 3:39:52 PM(UTC)
RidesWithYah
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331

Need some help from you Hebrew scholars, especially if you have a reliable Hebrew text, as all I have is a KJV and a Strong's.

The KJV reads:
Quote:
"And he said unto me, unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."


But, "two" "days" and "then" are supplied words, not cross-listed in Strong's. I do have a footnote that says "days" is literally "evenings and mornings" in the Hebrew, but nothing to indicate what the Hebrew words are.

Apparently "two thousand three hundred" is built from "eleph shalowsh meah", which is literally "thousand thirteen hundred". But it looks like shalowsh can be translated "thirteen" or "three"; and that "meah" can be translated "hundred" or "six score" (120). I'm trying to understand all the different possible number combinations -- 1,000 plus (three or thirteen) times (100 or 120). So it looks like 1300, 1360, and 2560 are also possible translations?

Perhaps the most interesting part is at the end... "then shall the sanctuary (qodesh) be cleansed (tsadaq)".
Am I crazy, or could this also read "then shall the set apart be righteous"?
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Monday, December 6, 2010 2:52:15 AM(UTC)
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I'll take a look when I get a chance and see what I can get you.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline James  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 7, 2010 6:22:58 AM(UTC)
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Daniel 8:14 wrote:
And he said (‘amar – spoke, declared and promised) to me, ‘Until (‘ad) end of the day (‘ereb — evening, night, darkness; the mixing together of an interwoven fabric; the mingling and joining together of things)and beginning of the day (boqer — morning or sunrise; from baqar, meaning to seek, search, enquire, consider, and reflect)two thousand (elephim – plural of thousand, used without a cardinal number signifying two thousand) and three (shalish) hundred (me’ah), and then the set apart (qodesh – person, place or object set apart, and dedicated to Yahuweh) will be vindicated (tsedeq – righteous, just, upright, be in accordance with the standard).'


This is how I would translate this verse.

You are right that the two is not written out, but it does belong. The plural form of eleph is given, meaning it is more than one thousand, and in Hebrew a cardinal number is not given for two, but is for anything over two, so:
eleph - 1000
elephim - 2000
shalish elephim - 3000 etc.

As for day not being there you are right, if it were days, you would see yowm, what Daniel wrote was 'ereb boqer (evening and mourning)so I would be willing to bet symbolism is at play. Most interesting to me is that both are singular not plural, so evening and mourning, not evenings and mournings.

Then does belong, or at the least can. It is a perfectly valid translation of wa' the context determines it. In this case I would say that it can be translated simply as and, or as and then. Based on the use of 'ad Until, I would translate it as and then.

shalish is three, not thirteen, thirteen would be shalish eser, literally 3 and ten.

Outside of Strong's, which was written to support the KJV, I see no use of ma'eh as three score. I'm fairly confidant that it's proper translation is hundred here.

And you are right on with the ending. and then the set apart (qodesh – person, place or object set apart, and dedicated to Yahuweh) will be vindicated (tsedeq – righteous, just, upright, be in accordance with the standard).'

Hope this helps.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline RidesWithYah  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, December 7, 2010 4:50:15 PM(UTC)
RidesWithYah
Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331

Thanks James, really do appreciate the help.

Shalom.
Offline James  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 8, 2010 2:55:50 AM(UTC)
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No problem.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
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