Hello everybody, I'm new to the forum but I've been nodding my head in agreement with Yada Yahweh and Future History for a few years now.

I'm sorry if this topic has been covered in-depth on here before; I checked pretty quickly and didn't see it.

I was raised a Baptist, if going to Baptist churches means being "raised" as one. At a pretty young age (13 or so), I can remember that I started to feel that something wasn't right with "church." If I ever mentioned something to my dad about it, though, he'd say something along the lines of 'Shut up.' He wasn't abusive about it or anything, he just wouldn't hear anything I had to say. As I got a little older that feeling got stronger. I didn't like how church was, with the deacons and the various pastors and that sort of thing. I couldn't put my finger on it, though. But of course I had years and years of church tradition going against me. Once again, if I said anything about it, I'd be told I obviously didn't like authority figures, and that I needed to 'straighten up.' It got to where I figured I was just wrong.

When I was about 16, my family joined a 'seeker sensitive' church. It would eventually grow to become one of the biggest mega-churches in the country. The second I walked in, I felt a very sort of forbidding presence, I guess you could call it. Once again, I tried to tell my dad about it, and he wouldn't listen. He thought the music was so awesome. It took about 4 years of going every Sunday for my dad to finally figure out that that church was bad news.

Sorry, I digressed there. The point of my post is to ask what everyone here thinks of the traditional Protestant church structure. Pastors, deacons, etc etc. I respect my elders and all that, but I guess I've always felt like the hierarchy of church leadership had a very Catholic feel to it. Judging by what I've read in Yada Yahweh, my feelings were correct.

Anyway, I just wanted to hear everyone's opinion on that. Maybe we can get a good discussion going.

Thanks for the welcome! Yes it would be great if we just met in someone's home. I always liked the idea of that.

The entire thing is a illusion. The word church never occurs in the Scriptures and was edited in by biased translators towing the party line. It was truly the assembly of called out people, both Jew and Gentile who kept the Creator's commandments and followed the teachings of Yahuwshua.

Christianity is Babylon, whether it be mommy Rome or all the whore daughters of the protesting Catholics.

When you realize that the Messiah Yahuwshua was never a Christian, nor did he come to start some new religion, the illusion falls that much more.

(I was raised in the ole Baptist cult myself)

Church "leadership" roles and hierarchy comes straight from Paul's letters, and the Messiah taught there is ONE boss, one teacher, and one shepherd.....him.

That feeling you had your entire life was 100% correct.

I would as soon set foot in a temple to Zeus as I would a christian church. (or any religion for that matter)

In a real setting, everyone contributed.

Elders were to simply keep things from getting out of hand.

There is one teacher.......Messiah

one Shepherd...............Messiah

One boss....................Messiah

I also think of it like this.

When your neighbors cow gets loose, and you hold him until he gets home, do we really need some kind of religious hierarchy? The Torah is about how we live, how we interact with the world. Yes Moses set up judges, but it was to enforce civil issues, it was not a religious hierarchy. It is about relationship not religion. Yes Israel had "Judges", but they were not religious gurus, they were civil issues and war issues.

When James and John asked to sit at the right and left hand of Messiah and he rebuked them....One lesson about that. If James and John sit at the right hand of Messiah, all you have left is the right and left hand of James and John, and so on.

In fact the Messiah specifically warned regarding setting up religious hierarchy, and said that is something the gentiles do to lord over each other, and that we are NOT to do that.

We do not need preachers, pastors, priest, popes, rabbis, etc to brainwash us and tell us what to do or not do. In fact history proves without a doubt these religious hierarchies and gurus virtually always lead people away from the Creator and tell them NOT to obey him. People also become lazy and braindead, and rather then search out matters for themselves they ask their religious guru.

In my opinion to set a religious guru over yourself is to make that person your mighty one and your authority, and it is nothing short of idolatry. You have literally made that religious guru your "god". Now of course there is nothing wrong with asking a "elder" for advice, but from my own experience in "Churchianity" that advice was generally 100% wrong most of the time

To chime in with my two cents, which is about what it's worth, the way I see it, in any gathering of people you will have those that know more than others, and it is the job of those to teach the others. So to use the Jerusalem assembly as an example Peter and James etc. knew and and understood more than most, after all they walked with Yahushua, so they "led" the assembly.

I think the biggest problem with the way churches function is that, by in large, the same thing that is wrong with our public school system, we don't teach people how to think, they teach them what to think. While those with more experience and more knowledge should take the lead, the best process for learning is to have discussions. Personally i have learned things from people with a lot more experience and knowledge than myself, but I have also learned a great deal from people with less, so i am always open to listening to someone else's ideas.

This post kind of feel through the cracks so I thought I would point it out to people. Sorry if this is annoying, but it's imperfect software used by imperfect people.

Probably not a bad way to go, but it's not up to me.