Sounds like we share the same burden--the reawakening of sleeping believers. If nobody in your fellowship is teaching the whole truth, perhaps you're being called to lead a home study. It's my experience that when people who "really want a relationship" with Yahweh are told things they didn't already know about Him, they receive the new information with joy and gladness--provided it measures up against the Scriptures. (Of course, people who are just "playing church" will attack you, but at least you'd know where you stand.) I've known very few pastors who are so insecure they'd oppose you on this (though few would enthusiastically support it, either). As long as you didn't set out to compete with the fellowship's regular schedule, there's no logical ground for objection, and lots of reasons for support. Friday night? What a cool way to kick off the Sabbath! Curriculum shouldn't be a problem, either. Even if you don't have time to analyse the Word for yourself as the basis for the study, Yada Yahweh is years ahead of you---and I can guarantee that Yada can write faster than you can teach. Or if you wanted to do focused studies on prophecy or the Law of Moses, Future History and The Owner's Manual are available. The point, of course, is not to set yourself up as a learned expert in all things scriptural---it's to get folks talking about God's Word. You and I both know how exciting it can be when the "light bulb" goes on and we start to comprehend how awesome Yahweh is. Why shouldn't you be the one flipping the switch?

kp

Looks like we may be about to go through the same fun ourselves. We currently just do our own studies on the Sabbath instead of church; however, wWe began a search for non-bablyonian based churches in our area and could not find anything. I've had fairly good experiences at the somewhat independent "Bible Churches" so I think at this point our plan is to go talk to the pastors there and see what happens. Those types of churches seem to place heavy emphasis on things being scriptural so I don't imagine it to be that big of a battle, but it will take time for them to come to terms - my own family is evidence of that!

I expect it to be series of simple questions at first:

Do you believe that scripture was divine writ?

Can you point me to the place in scripture where the Sabbath was authorized for change?

Can you tell me the significance of the Passover?

Can you tell me why we celebrate Easter and why that replaces the Passover?

The answers to these questions will hopefully stimulate enough of a thought process to begin movement towards a Sabbath celebration. The real battle will be in overcoming the rationalization associated with the Babylonian customs. I myself had struggled with that for awhile, then I watched my wife struggle with it. We've been searching the scriptures almost daily to discover whether these things were true for about 9 months and have confirmed most of what is stated in YY and the like. There are a couple of things that seem off a bit, but it may just require us to do some more research.

For example, I think one area where we have struggled the most is that Christmas. It is seen as an ideal time to catch up with family members and witness. So we'd say, well we're going to go ahead and go this year, but we plan to disclose what we have found and inform them that this will be our last. That changed upon uncovering a reference to Ishter in the ol' study bible and learning about some of the stuff in Macabees. If it took myself and her this long, I think it would be unreasonable of us to expect a whole church to turn on a dime - an analogy may be trying to turn an aircraft carrier in a bath tub. Ultimately, I think the approach needs to boil down to how do you overcome the rationalization that we both were guilty of and still are at times?

I feel like we have a responsibility to communicate what we have learned, but at the same time we can't corrupt ourselves after everything we have learned. Seems like a bit of a gray area and I'm not aware of any authorities we can consult in this matter.

I think the key is to provide easily verifiable information that can be quickly digested AND making it personal. To this end, my wife and I are looking at putting together a movie/DVD that explains everything we have learned and distributing as a gift on Dec 25 to our various extended families. Kookdom here we come, well hopefully we don't lose our spine as we approach that date.

Also, this may be helpful. I think Devildog was the one who wrote about having a way to prove these things were real in about 2 hours. Although we don't have it that polished I did have an interesting exchange with my grandfather this last weekend. His comment was how do you know that someone didn't just make this stuff up a couple thousand years ago. I walked him through my own PERSONAL journey in this space, and revealed the questions I had before he had an opportunity to even raise them. Then the kicker was telling him that every SINGLE thing that I thought could be a contradiction, question, etc. I have found an answer. I walked him through the science, the history, translation discrepancies, formation of the canon, both sides of various arguments, etc. Full disclosure. He is an analytic type, but I still needed to work with his intuition by making it personal. It became personal by walking through my own journey and revealing many of the same questions he had and the answers before he had a chance to ask them.

My uncle has been working on this man for years, but to no avail. It seemed like he actually stopped and considered what was being said this time. What made it different this time? I think it may be revealing how you found the answers to the questions you've asked yourself. I hereby ask for more prayers for my grandfather. If the set apart spirit gets into that man, it will take a whole extended family with it! He's one of those "tell it like it is" types.

So perhaps you can go to the pastor and tell him about the questions you have had and what answers you have arrived at. You may tell him you have doubts about the whole system we have been taught and see if he'd be willing to walk you through the scriptural basis for the things you presumably already know the answers to. That journey may open some eyes.

Also, I've thought about making some bumper stickers and stuff. Imagine how many souls could be reached with something that probably costs no more than a dollar! What is a personal message that could be put on a bumper sticker... I don't know, but I'd love to hear any ideas.

Hey guys, many blessings as you go to the elders. Just remeber who they are, not in an authority stand-point but simply men/women. I agree with Ken, start something yourself. I can tell you that when I left the church a year and half ago it was the hardest thing I have ever, and mean ever had to do. I was the diehard, dedicated to the enth degree the most faithful attender as a youth, so much so I made a career of it when I left school. It was a major dissapointment when I found how dark the inside of the "church" really was. It was by loosing my job and feeling hopeless that I found Yahweh, I found him in the strangest place...someones home.

I spent a year going to these home fellowships, and now I have never felt more free in my entire life. I would say this one thing, that you have left a mark and upon your departure there will be people who will look for you and want to know where you went, welcome them into your home as they could be the ones who really want to Yada Yahuweh! I will stand with you in prayers as you go to meet with the elders, and as bad as this may sound you might to be ready for them not to listen and then to reject you. I hope that is not the case, and that they really would listen to you and have an open heart to the truth you bring. Either way you guys are in for the ride of your life! Many blessings!

Tiffany

I ditto Tiffany!! I tell you prayer does make a difference and the set apart Spirit will make the rest, actually the first difference!! You are so in our prayers at our house!

Hey dudes.

Well I just thought I'd give you a quick update on our evening with the elders: We had a great hour before they arrived, prayed and worshipped which was good, really felt that Yahweh was going in their with us. The Swalch joined us too which gave us a bit of support. We didnt know what to say or how to say it, but Yahweh guided the conversation along well and we had an "interesting" discussion.

Basically they arrived quite agressive and just wanted to argue their point. They didnt really listen very well and kind of assumed that we were going Jewish and losing our freedom by following the law etc. But basically said they if we gave them the information they would take a look and get back to us (which is good I guess) . But then asked if we had anywhere to go if they decided we were endangering their flock. So now its wait and see time, I dont know how long it will take for them to decide we're loonys and politely kick us out.

So we're a bit sad, really not too bothered if they make us leave the church but dont want to lose our home group. So we shall see, time is short and we have to get on with what Yahweh has planned for us. we're ready for the next step of the journey. I just wish they could see what we see and they could all get on board with this too. I dont want my friends to kick themselves when they get to heaven and realise what they missed out on.

Keep praying please, we need a whole lot of wisdom now....

Juski,

Way to hold your ground and be willing to step out into the unknown and challenge the status quo. Just know you are further along than others. I haven't even been able to convince my own household.

But the truth will find its way to the people its meant for. I'm sure you planted some seeds tonight.

Well as much as I have become a fan of this verse I have become one who lives it per say, but to tell you the truth it is worth everything....



I know you know this, I know what you are facing and I am praying for you. I trust Yahuweh to have his way in your lives because you are willing to work and seek his face. Stand strong, know that you stand with truth and know Yahuweh! I am so sorry that you now have to wait to hear their decision, but remember this you may be asked to leave, but with that you will be set free for the next adventure.

Blessings

hehe 7 years... :) There's that number again

Thanks again everyone, its soo good to be able to speak about all this to people with the same heart as you, as you lot know it can be a lonely existence AT THE MOMENT! I will say at the moment, because if we are starting to see what Yahweh told us a few years ago come into reality then there are even better things He has promised :)