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Offline Rohn  
#1 Posted : Saturday, August 7, 2010 8:16:13 AM(UTC)
Rohn
Joined: 5/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Goodyear AZ

Dear Ken and Yada members
Ken I have been reading future history and getting to some chapters I didn’t t read first time through. One question I can’t quite get straightened out is the Holy Spirit idea. I am not a believer in the Babylonian trilogy, for me there is one God Yahweh, and one Messiah who can do nothing without the Father.
I was born with a small computer that never shuts down especially when my eyes are open, they call that the brain. I found and for a long never listened to a small voice, that as it turned out has never lied to me. I will call that my spirit or soul. After being in the hospital many times from service I found that the small voice and my breath can do amazing things together. they certainly can get a body working again with some natural rhythm. Whether the two can do bigger things in the external world I would not know.
So on this basis when I read about the Holy Spirit descending on the people at Pentecost. I read that Stephen and others become full of the holy spirit. And today we have Christian's running around telling people that they have been filled with the spirit of God. Now, to me I'm thinking that the modern Christian is full of what Dr. Greenspan spoke of, an exuberance. Which is fine, yet I'm not sure that is the same thing as earlier descriptions in the scriptures. That is what is confusing What is this spirit they talk of exactly, Yahweh God created us the way we are. I don't see that anyone has received life giving water, if so it must be like a prescription or like manna and it last a short while.
I enjoy reading the forum and especially enjoy all of your research.
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Saturday, August 7, 2010 10:36:04 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Rohn, I've covered your question in more detail than anybody will probably want in the book I'm currently on, The Torah Code. It's a great question, and one that needs to be addressed, because the idea of "spirit" as used in scripture is 100% symbolic. Unfortunately, the book isn't finished, and what I've done so far isn't posted anywhere online yet. And I hate to put dozens of pages up in this format, 'cause it's really hard to read. But I'll give you a little bit, in the hope that it will be helpful...

AIR / BREATH / WIND: Inspiration

The English phrase “catching the wind” is a euphemism for harnessing something that is intrinsically elusive, impossible to pin down—in a word, “uncatchable.” Our poets employ sentiments like the wind beneath my wings to describe what can’t really be described—something that’s invisible, incorporeal, and intangible, but at the same time ubiquitous, real, and vital, something that’s essential to our very existence. The air we breathe is as necessary to our life as it is taken for granted. It should therefore come as no particular surprise that one of the central themes comprising God’s self-portrait is the metaphor of air, breath, or wind—the symbols used to communicate the elusive, esoteric concept of spirit.

The two Hebrew words that most directly communicate this concept are ruach (wind or spirit) and neshamah (breath). Both concepts are rendered with the same word group in Greek: pnoe (wind or breath) is used only twice in scripture, but its cousin, pneuma, appears 385 times. The root of both these words is the verb pneo, meaning to breathe or blow. We’ll get more deeply into the definitions of these words as we proceed; as you might imagine, they assume (just as they do in English) a broad range of metaphorical nuances and underlying meanings—all of which can help to shed light on what Yahweh wants us to know about Himself, His nature, and His plan.

A third Hebrew word often seen “hanging out on the same street corners” as ruach and neshamah is nephesh (or nepes), usually translated “soul” or “life.” This too is also connected etymologically to the concept of breath. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament notes, “The original, concrete meaning of the word was probably ‘to breathe.’ The verb occurs three times in the medio-passive Niphal stem with the meaning “to refresh oneself” (Exodus 23:12; 31:17; II Samuel 16:14)…. The noun appears to denote ‘breath’ in Genesis 1:30: ‘in which [i.e. the land creatures] is the breath of life.’ The connection between nepeš and breath is also suggested by such statements as: ‘and [the Lord] breathed [nph] into his [man’s] nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul’ (Genesis 2:7); and ‘the nepeš [life/breath/soul] of the child returned and he revived’ (I Kings 21:22).” The Greek equivalent is psuche, the breath or soul. But the primary definition of nephesh is soul, self, mind, or living being, the seat of emotion, passion, and mental activity, and for this study, I’ll be using that basic definition. Believe me, this is complicated enough already.

At issue here is something that should be of vital interest to anyone seeking to have a relationship with Yahweh. What is His physical nature? What kind of being is He? Faced with picturing Yahweh on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, Michelangelo basically “punted,” portraying Him as an elderly Caucasian male in marvelous physical condition, wearing a white nightshirt and sporting rather longish gray hair and a windswept beard. (One wonders if the artist consulted with his patron, Pope Julius II, about what God looked like.) Yahweh Himself, in the Second Commandment (Exodus 20:4), had warned us about the futility of trying to picture God. And Yahshua described God in terms that defy physical description: “The hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:23-24)

The word translated “spirit” here (all three times) is the Greek noun pneuma. Strong’s defines pneuma: “(1) A movement of air (a gentle blast of the wind, hence the wind itself, or the breath of nostrils or mouth). (2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated; the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides; the soul. (3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting; a life giving spirit; a human soul that has left the body; a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel—used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men; the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ. (4) of God: God’s power and agency distinguishable in thought from his essence in itself considered; manifest in the course of affairs; by its influence upon the souls productive in the theocratic body (the church) of all the higher spiritual gifts and blessings; the third person of the trinity, the God the Holy Spirit. (5) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of anyone; the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.”

I think it can be safely concluded that two millennia of Christian tradition (known in theological circles as “guessing”) has thoroughly muddied the waters here. If the spirit and the soul were exactly the same thing, scripture wouldn’t have used two different words to describe “it.”

As if to tell us the word defies succinct definition, Zodhiates rambles on for five pages trying to pin down pneuma. Being merciful, I won’t quote the whole thing, but here are some highlights: “(1) Breath: of the mouth or nostrils, breath of air, air in motion, a breeze, blast, or wind. (2) Spirit: vital spirit or life, the principle of life residing in man and again returning to God; that part that can live independently of the body; the rational spirit, mind, element of life, distinct from the body and soul. (3) A Spirit: a simple, incorporeal immaterial being (thought of as possessing higher capacities than man does in his present state). Created spirits: of the human soul or spirit, after its departure from the body and existing in separate state; of an evil spirit, a demon, mostly used with the adjective akatharton, as an unclean spirit. Of God in reference to His incorporeality; of the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ as being communicated by Him after His resurrection and ascension.” And he drones on and on, seemingly finding a slightly different definition of pneuma for each and every instance in the New Covenant scriptures.

If you’ll recall, in Chapter 2 I discussed the concept of “spirit” at length, and noted that the Random House Dictionary listed thirty-one distinct definitions for “spirit.” And I’ve gone through the painful exercise of reviewing several lexicons’ take on pneuma, the Greek word translated spirit, in order to demonstrate the same truth: nobody really seems to know what “spirit” (in the Biblical sense) means. That is, the context determines what shade of meaning pneuma (or ruach, for that matter) is meant to convey—and for this reason, the preconceptions of the translators and lexicographers have a tremendous impact on how we view the concept of “spirit.” In particular, I believe they’re wrong when they use “spirit” and “soul” interchangeably: these are two distinct concepts, both of which will to some extent remain as elusive and ephemeral as the wind as long as we view them from the vantage point of our mortal existence. I’ll try to explain what I mean more fully as we proceed, but for now, allow me to propose a simpler, more focused definition of pneuma and ruach—the Biblical concept of spirit:

(1) The literal meaning of ruach/pneuma is breath or wind, air in motion—unseen but perceived, invisible but essential, able to bring either life-giving rains or terrifying destruction. A body will die within minutes of its air supply being cut off, and yet we seldom give the process of breathing a second thought. All of these qualities make ruach/pneuma a natural metaphor for God’s perplexing nature, and an important component of His self-portrait.

(2) By implication then, a ruach/pneuma is an incorporeal living being—one who has no material substance but does have consciousness and personality, one who exercises volition. These beings can be either uncreated or created. Yahweh (undiminished deity) with His Holy Spirit (a diminished manifestation of Yahweh, set apart from Him in order to dwell within believers) is uncreated: He is eternally self-existent. Created spirits are commonly called angels—literally “messengers”—or demons (fallen angels). This type of ruach/pneuma may assume visible form, but their nature, the basis of their life and existence, is fundamentally different from that of mortal beings. Created spirits are not subject to the laws of physics or the constraints of molecular structure or biology. And they are apparently immortal—once created, they don’t die.

(3) The third and last definition of ruach/pneuma is one’s inspiration, his personality, enthusiasm, or insight—a direct result of the life that is within him. It is his driving force, his motivating influence, his raison d’être. This could be a measure of the spiritual anointing with which one is blessed, or it could describe the attitude that someone derives from association with a spirit (in the sense of Definition #2) dwelling within him. But it is not technically the same thing as one’s soul—that which makes any animal biologically alive.

Based on this somewhat simplified definition of ruach/pneuma, I think we could safely paraphrase the defining John 4 passage we reviewed above this way: “The hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in a state of enthusiastic inspiration based on His truth, for Father Yahweh is seeking such people to worship Him. God is an uncreated, self-existent, immaterial Being, and those who worship Him must worship through the truth provided by His Spirit dwelling within them.” Or something like that.


I'm afraid that's just the tip of the iceberg; there's lot's more salient data. But it's a start.

kp
Offline Rohn  
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 8, 2010 4:05:01 AM(UTC)
Rohn
Joined: 5/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Goodyear AZ

Ken
I am speechless. This website has a lot of viewers. I am happy that you used this question to give us all a preview of your up and coming work. I am going to print it out and read it while I open my eyes this morning. Thank you very much!
Offline Rohn  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 9, 2010 2:22:53 PM(UTC)
Rohn
Joined: 5/1/2009(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Goodyear AZ

As i can see from your new book I walked into a very big tent. The Holy Spirit then looking at no. 2 of your summation, must last for a short time as it could be energy, or inspiration. i wasn't looking from the point of view of say, pranayama or some way to thread myself back to God. I was trying to look at "Holy Spirit" from the view of Stephen. When he went in to speak to the Sanhedrin. I feel this was a momentous event. Scripture says Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit, looked up and saw the glory of Yahweh, and Yahshua was standing at the right hand of God.
I think three times the Holy Spirit is referenced in the story and of course I believe that this Priestly class was never on board with God's plan from early on and ever since. What this Holy Spirit allowed Stephen to see was referenced in Psalms 68:1. So it is no wonder the Nobles stoned him. Was this not when Yahweh blew the whistle, no instant replay needed. Just some new players. They had rejected Him and now in rejecting Stephen the Gentiles would get their chance. The Apostles spoke of the Kingdom, and Paul would speak of redemption and the Cross. They spoke to the Hebrews and the other speaks to Gentiles. When it comes to consciousness, breath, spirit and soul we are still in many ways, in the dark.
I can't wait to get a hold of your new book and read it through. Till then
May we bless the Eternal One and receive His blessings.
Thanks
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