 Joined: 6/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Arlington, WA
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I'm sure this has been asked before, but I can't find an answer or don't know where to look.
I'm reading The Last Days and I have a couple questions. Why is Noah and the flood not considered one of the harvests?
And my second question, How do you know God wrote His personal name in the scripture 7000 times?
I didn't think we had the complete scripture in that there are references to other books in the scripture such as "The Book of Jasher", "The Acts of Solomon", "The Book of Nathan the Prophet" and I believe there are a few others.
Thanks,
Starlight
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 Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470  Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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Noah I would say is prophetic of the harvest that removes us from tribulation danger, as is the story of Lot. The reason it isn't an actual harvest is because it isn't an actual harvest :) |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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Joined: 6/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Arlington, WA
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LOL - Well that's not a very good reason! :-)
There must be a better reason then that, especially since Noah and the Flood is such a major story and is mentioned as a sign of the end times.
The harvests are based on seven, so is it left out just because that would make more then 7? That doesn't fly, so what is it? Can you tell me where to find the answer?
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 Joined: 9/8/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: NY
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The 7000 times is an assumption that is made based on the pattern that Yahweh has provided. You can find a discussion right here. I don't think that the harvest being based on 7 is an extremely important point. It is also an assumption based on Yahweh's affinity for 7. I agree that Lot probably should not be considered a harvest since he was not harvested it is more of a metaphor for a harvest. So based on this assumption there seems to be 3 completed and 3 not completed. It is a fair question I suggest that if you want an answer that you send an email directly to Yada. I find that he is more than willing to explain his view.
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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The way I've come to understand it, Noah's deliverance is a dress rehearsal for the deliverance of Israel through the Tribulation (see Revelation 12, etc.), while Enoch's translation (which preceded it) predicts the rapture-harvest proper. Lot's removal from Sodom is a prophetic type of the rapture---after which judgment fell.
kp
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Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,470 Location: England Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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kp wrote:The way I've come to understand it, Noah's deliverance is a dress rehearsal for the deliverance of Israel through the Tribulation (see Revelation 12, etc.), while Enoch's translation (which preceded it) predicts the rapture-harvest proper. Lot's removal from Sodom is a prophetic type of the rapture---after which judgment fell.
kp Thanks KP - your in-depth knowledge on this is awesome - that makes MUCH more sense pictorially. |
Signature Updated! Woo that was old... |
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Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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Looking at this from an agricultural perspective, it's quite simple: the harvest always comes before the threshing, and the grain is winnowed---the good separated from the worthless---before the chaff is thrown into the fire.
kp
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 Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA
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But kp, the harvest is a cutting off - the wheat and the chaff are cut off or sickled together, before the threshing, right? Isn't this what Yahshua spoke of in Matthew 13:30? Also, doesn't our Savior connect this harvest with the days of Noah in Matthew 24?
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Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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Yeah, that's the problem with metaphors---you can see all kinds of things in them if you're expecting to. The thing is, we have to be careful not to extrapolate: the Olivet discourse doesn't actually use the concept of a harvest, nor does it mention harvests per se. It speaks of taking "them" all away, but it doesn't even make it clear who "them" is in this context, the flood victims or Noah's family. To call that a "harvest" is quite a stretch.
As far as the wheat and chaff being sickled together, that's quite true, but that picture fits perfectly with the underlying meaning of teruah---blowing the trumpet or shouting: teruah can (and in scripture, does) signify both joyful celebration and a call to war (which leads me to conclude that the rapture will serve as a catalyst---though not the only one---for the Tribulation's woes). Matthew 13:30 bears this out---the rapture harvest and the "threshing" will all be part of the same process. It doesn't mean they have to happen at precisely the same time, but in the same chronological vicinity. By the way, check out Isaiah 41:11-16 for a peek at how Israel will "thresh" its enemies (presumably at the Battle of Magog), even though we know that the final victory will be at Yahweh's hand.
But your point is well taken, DH: this is as much an art as it is a science. Yahweh told us very little about the schedule in concrete and unmistakable terms. A truckload of evidence, and maddeningly little proof.
kp
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 Joined: 12/2/2008(UTC) Posts: 165  Location: USA Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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Quote:A truckload of evidence, and maddeningly little proof. I like how you put that. Oh, but what fun would it be if it were all too easy to see? Yeah, sometimes I think God is chuckling at us like mice in a maze. Thanks Yah! Really.. love ya! You couldn't have made this real simple?? Thanks! Glad we're here for your amusement. ;) I kid. :)
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 Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331
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Quote:Throughout my conversations with Dr. Hale, he pointed out that the masses are almost uniformly unaware that Scripture is written in riddles. I was taken aback, but his words contextualized many of my lamentable disconnects when speaking with believers and non-believers alike; that is, when Dr. Hale pointed this matter out to me, it became apparent as to why I am often questioned (and sharply criticized) for "picking Scripture apart" as I do. The answer to why I "pick Scripture apart" is because I know of no other way to get to the bottom of a riddle. Of course, if Scripture is not understood to be a book of riddles, then I guess my work might seem odd to those who read it; how much stranger my work must seem to those who do not read Scripture on a daily basis.... Joshua Collins, in the foreword to his book Did God Plant the Forbidden Tree. Well worth a read. |
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Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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"It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out." (Proverbs 25:2)
"To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (Revelation 1:6)
"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4)
It seems to me, the royal power (basileia) we'll hold as resurrected immortals during the Millennial Kingdom of Yahshua comes from the same place our insatiable curiosity about Yahweh's Word and world. It's a gift from God. Yahshua wants us to be able reign wisely under Him, and that's going to require interest in, and knowledge of, His mindset. There's no reason not to begin our "searching-things-out training" in this life :-)
kp
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