 Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331
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So I've re-read Paralambano and Erchomai...
Seems much of the "tie" between "Trumpets" and "Rapture" lies with Paul.
If he is no longer considered a reliable witness, how does this change our understanding of the fulfillment or Taruwah, and the events and timing of the tribulation leading up to Atonement? |
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 Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA
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I've been wondering the same.
In chapter 5 of QP, a stark distinction is made between Paul's harpazo/rapture (2 Corin 12:4 and 1 Thess 4:17) and Yahshua's taken/paralambano in Matthew 24:40, which Yada defines as "Yahweh’s description of the Taruw’ah Harvest."
Matt 24:40 - "Then two shall be in the field the one shall be taken and the other left"
Yada points out that harpazo has a negative meaning - "speaks of being seized and violently snatched away" whereas paralambano has a positive meaning - “to receive at an appointed time, to welcome and accept, to gather individuals, bringing them together, and joining with them.” It is from para, meaning “with, beside, and near, speaking of proximity and association,” and lambano, “to take someone by the hand, to remove them, and to carry them away.”
There seem to be two very different messages of the harvest in these RC Scriptures.
I've also wondered why there is a similar OC example. Isaiah 57:1 seems to indicate that death of the righteous is like the positive paralambano - "The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil." The word for "taken away" being "asaph" - 622.
Then there's Deut 28:63 and Prov 2:22 which describe the wicked being destroyed/plucked out using the word "nasach", 5255 - which to me, is defined similar to the Greek harpazo.
So, I began to wonder if the rapture/harvest could actually be accomplished through the means of mass death? The word "harvest" means to "sever, cut down" ... right? It also seems to me that the people alive on the earth at the time of the rapture/harvest will be going about the "regular business" of living (as in the days of Noah and Lot) - both before and after the harvest. If the harvest were by means of mass death, unbelievers would not be as jolted by it. They would certainly mourn the devastation of life, but they would not think it supernatural (like a sensational "Left Behind" type event) and they would probably continue to live as they had before - as unbelievers.
Thanks for opening this topic. I look forward to what hearing how others have been thinking this through.
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Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331
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bump. (Wisdom and Insight, please...) |
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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I would caution against reading into ordinary Greek words like harpazo what you'd like to see there. It speaks not so much of violence as of suddenness. Yahshua Himself was described as having been "caught up" (harpazo) in the allegory in Rev 12. Yes, it doesn't mean the same thing as paralambano, but that doesn't mean the two words contradict each other. Haven't you ever suddenly grabbed your kids, swept them off their feet, and given them huge bear hugs---just to hear them squealing in delight? That action demonstrates how harpazo and paralambano can work together in the same context. All Paul's use of the word harpazo brings to the party is the added information that the "taking in" or "receiving" (paralambano) of the Teruah event would be sudden, a concept he repeated without using the word harpazo in I Cor 15:52 ("in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye). If you don't believe Paul, that's fine, but he didn't contradict Yahshua on this point; he only added detail to the scenario. Take it or leave it.
Then there're the Tanach references danshelper mentioned: both Deut 28:63 and Proverbs 2:22 are speaking of Israel's fate if they refuse to heed Yahweh's word. The Proverbs passage speaks of the wicked being cut off and uprooted from the eretz---a word usually indicative of the land of Israel (although it can also mean the world). In both cases, the prophecies have been fulfilled in all their gruesome detail. In the Isaiah passage, the prophet is mentioning both groups whom Paul says will be "raptured"---the dead and the living believers. Those who have "perished" (abad) are the tsaddiyq---the just, lawful, righteous, those vindicated by God. But who are "taken away" ('asaph---gathered, received, removed, withdrawn, harvested=the Greek paralambano)? The chesed---the devout men, the good, kind, faithful ones. Isaiah doesn't say anything about this group being dead.
kp
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 Joined: 3/13/2008(UTC) Posts: 212   Location: Southern Wisconsin Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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I thought this would be a good place to post my Taruw'ah letter. I'm going to print it and leave it on top of a printed copy of the Taruw'ah chapter in an obvious place like on the kitchen counter. Feel free to use it as a template for your own letter or just copy. Here it is: PLEASE READ THIS IF MY FAMILY & I ARE MISSING!! Don’t worry, we’re okay We have been taken by our Father Yahuweh (God). Right now you are scared because there are people who are mysteriously missing and you’re seeing it on the news. I’m sure you’ve heard of the rapture, where Yahshua (you may know Him as Jesus) comes and takes a bunch of people out of this world before the tribulation happens, but you may be thinking “this can’t be the rapture because all my religious friends are still here! Even the preachers & priests!!”! Well, rest assured that there was no alien invasion or any other ludicrous ideas that may be thrown around, but rather we HAVE been taken by Yahuweh and the reason so many of the religious people were not taken is because they did not actually know Him, even if they thought they did. Don’t panic, if you want to have a relationship with Yahuweh, it’s not too late. Yes, you will have to endure a rough 7 year period known as the tribulation which will start in the year 2026 and end in the fall of 2033, at which time Yahweh will come back (we’ll be with him) to the earth. But, you can still come to know Him during these rough times that are coming soon for you. Please read the following chapter called Taruwah, so that you know how we knew today would be the day we would go. Then, go to www.yadayahweh.com and read it from beginning to end. There are several great books on that site which are all available to read free online. That way, you will come to know who Yahweh is and understand better what’s going on. I encourage you to learn the Hebrew language and study scripture as it was written in its original language before it was so badly mistranslated into our English Bibles. If you seek Yahuweh, you WILL find Him. Don’t give up! Spread the word about Yahuweh even if it gets you in trouble – people need to know. Many people won’t believe you or won’t care, but there will be people who want to know the truth and who will seek Yahuweh. Good luck to you all! By the way, whoever finds this, please grab my blackberry and look up my contact list and share this with my extended family and friends. Oh, and do whatever you want with my house and my stuff… I won’t be needing it any more because I’m finally home!! With much love, -T
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