 Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA
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On a couple of recent radio shows within the context of the Exodus 20 amplification, Yada has mentioned that YHWH's eternal love will only be given/received to/by "thousands" - a very small number. This is not Yada's exact wording, but my question is - I thought this meant "thousands of generations"? I know the word "generations" is not in Exodus 20:6, but it is in Deuteronomy 7:9, listed as a parallel passage in one of my study tools.
Also, how does "thousands" - a seemingly countable number - fit with the Scriptures that imply the number of renewed beings will be unable to be counted? The promise to Abram in Genesis 15:5 - is this just a promise of physical descendants, or is this spiritual descendents? And Revelation 7:9 - "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language"?
Thanks.
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 Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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Enoch, quoted by Jude, stated, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints." He didn't say how many "ten thousands" but the number doesn't sound too encouraging. I get the distinct impression that the Tribulation martyrs of Rev 7:9 (who are promised a share in the Messiah's reign---Rev 20:4) will outnumber the raptured saints who will return to earth with Yahshua on Yom Kippurim (Matthew 24:31, Rev 19:14) by a wide margin, but we aren't given hard numbers.
kp
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 Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh
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Shalom,
Just a little math / arithmatic here might help?
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. KJV
Exo 20:6 and doing kindness to thousands, of those loving Me and keeping My commands. YLT
Exo 20:6 ועשׂה חסד לאלפים לאהבי ולשׁמרי מצותי
Exo 20: 6 but showing kindness to the thousandth generationof those who love Me and keep My commandments. JPS Jewish Study Bible
There are two English versions that state thousands, one stating thousandth. How can we tell in this case if JPS has elephim אלפים right?
If a generation is 20yrs then from Year 1500 BCE when this was approximately written it will be 175 generations to the present day.
If a generation is 40yrs then from Year 1500 BCE when this was approximately written it will be 87.5 generations to the present day.
So the 1000th generation would occur in 38500 CE.
Please excuse me if I am not absolutely accurate , but hopefully the idea has been conveyed that the JPS version doesn't make sense, unless one doesn't "go with" 6000 years and then a 1000 years of direct rule by YHWH.
I hope this helps.
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Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA
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True, J&M, but salvation isn't hereditary. A "generation" could be a week: I hear the good news, tell my buddy, who also believes, who tells somebody he meets... In other words, a thousand generations of God's people doesn't necessarily mean 1000 x whatever the length of a biological generation is. It's merely a thousand passings of the torch.
kp
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 Joined: 3/7/2008(UTC) Posts: 133  Location: USA
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danshelper wrote:
Also, how does "thousands" - a seemingly countable number - fit with the Scriptures that imply the number of renewed beings will be unable to be counted?
I believe in the scriptures the numbers 10, 100, 1000 represents the competion of whats in view. The thousands is the completion of those that belong to Elohim. The "seemingly UNcountable number" is speaking to the fact they can not be counted because nobody knows who they are. The children of Yahweh are not to be counted as in a census, see King David.
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 Joined: 3/31/2010(UTC)
Posts: 157
Location: PA
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
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There are many "thousands" in the largest number you can think of. I think the bottom line is that the number of people that do develop a true relationship with Yahweh is small in comparison to the number of people that lived and walked the earth in thousands of years. I don't believe that God is being exclusive. I think it is more to the fact that free will, culture, religion and deception is the wide road that lead most people away from the narrow path. It's kind of sad when you really think about it.
Although I respect and admire the work and insight that Yada has put into the study of scripture, his books, and the radio program... It bothers me that he at times puts a major emphasis on the "thousands" or as he says often, "one in a million".
I'm grateful that Exo 20:6 didn't say... "And showing mercy to the one's that love me, and keep my commandments."
Who is Yahweh/Yahshua referring to in the phrase, "those will be the least in the kingdom" ?
Unfortunately many people are confused and have accepted many things that are not accurate. I don't believe that all "Christians" are completely lost. There are many non-religious "Christians" that are truly focused on realationship with Yahweh, whatever name they call Him.
I think it would be wrong for anyman to judge all people who call themselves "Christian" as lost and say that their soul is destined to die. I know many non-religious "Christians" that have a heart after God and have a realationship with Him. |
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Joined: 11/30/2009(UTC)
Posts: 196
Location: Gettysburg, PA
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Thank you all for you insights which are very helpful.
I'm also so thankful that YHWH knows the end from the beginning. Had my heart been judged by Him a 40-year or even 20-year "generation" ago, I would not be counted among His people. But where it was once "not my people", is now "sons of the living God" - Hosea 1:10.
At the end of this age, it seems an immeasurable and innumerable number, including those who are "least in the kingdom" and the "nations from the ends of the earth" who come to YHWH and finally understand and acknowledge our inheritence of worthless idolatry (Jeremiah 16:19).
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 Joined: 6/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 331
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Right there with ya, Dan.
I'm ashamed of the person I was, and glad He found me and put me on the right path.
Shalom. |
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