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Offline Greatest I am  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 4:23:56 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
Joined: 2/28/2010(UTC)
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Location: Canada

Believers believe that God gave man freedom of choice.

God says do it my way or burn forever.

If you see this as free choice then think again for the first time.

It is a threat and coercion.

Regards
DL
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 4:27:34 AM(UTC)
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Welcome to the forums :)

While religion teaches that myth - Yah certainly does not. :)

To get a better understanding of who we are and what we kind of think you might want to check out the books associated with this forum. You can find them here:

http://yadayahweh.com/
http://futurehistory.yadayahweh.com/

There are others but they are the main two - freely available.
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Matthew  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 9:39:04 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
God says do it my way or burn forever.

If you see this as free choice then think again for the first time.

It is a threat and coercion.


DL, please read the books Rob suggested. In it you'll find why Scripture does not say "burn forever" but instead says those who do not love Yahweh will die and cease to exist, having their souls annihilated and dissipated into nothingness at the Great White Light Throne Judgement. The Lake of Fire is to be understood as the place where souls are judged, possibly another way of saying it would be the Lake of Judgement, but those are my words. In the Lake of Fire unbelievers will be mercifully and painlessly snuffed out into oblivion. To know Yahweh is to know Life and Existence, so to choose not to know Him will result in not knowing Life and Existence. You can't say it's an unfair choice. For example, Atheists want to be classed as just another animal void of God, and ironically God will respect their wishes, He'll fully respct their choice to not know Him, the result being they'll die and receive the same outcome as animals, neither receiving reward nor punishment.

You are free to do as you please, Yahweh's not forcing you to do anything. Unfortunately, religions have made it seem as if Yahweh is threatening and forcing people into submission, but the opposite of what Scripture teaches is true. God has completely left the decision up to you.

My advise for you is to read Yada Yahweh, the opening chapters deal with Genesis, especially Genesis 1 and linking it up to current scientific findings. You might just be surprised at what you find, which should encourage you to read the rest of it.

But DL, would you care to share with us your beliefs?
Offline Greatest I am  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 10:35:37 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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Posts: 54
Location: Canada

Matthew wrote:
DL, please read the books Rob suggested. In it you'll find why Scripture does not say "burn forever" but instead says those who do not love Yahweh will die and cease to exist, having their souls annihilated and dissipated into nothingness at the Great White Light Throne Judgement. The Lake of Fire is to be understood as the place where souls are judged, possibly another way of saying it would be the Lake of Judgement, but those are my words. In the Lake of Fire unbelievers will be mercifully and painlessly snuffed out into oblivion. To know Yahweh is to know Life and Existence, so to choose not to know Him will result in not knowing Life and Existence. You can't say it's an unfair choice. For example, Atheists want to be classed as just another animal void of God, and ironically God will respect their wishes, He'll fully respct their choice to not know Him, the result being they'll die and receive the same outcome as animals, neither receiving reward nor punishment.

You are free to do as you please, Yahweh's not forcing you to do anything. Unfortunately, religions have made it seem as if Yahweh is threatening and forcing people into submission, but the opposite of what Scripture teaches is true. God has completely left the decision up to you.

My advise for you is to read Yada Yahweh, the opening chapters deal with Genesis, especially Genesis 1 and linking it up to current scientific findings. You might just be surprised at what you find, which should encourage you to read the rest of it.

But DL, would you care to share with us your beliefs?


Sure but fist this on what you said.

What a game for Yahweh to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place to judge and kill.
Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over. And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into death and cling to and love the rest in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

As to what I know to be true, none are ever lost to God.
He does not create to kill.
At his worse he does not kill, he cures.

Only a loser of a God would kill and break his own laws.
Does Yahweh not say, though shalt not kill?

Does God break his own laws?

No.

Regards
DL

Offline Noach  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 12:11:25 PM(UTC)
Noach
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 127

DL,

The problem is "what you know to be true" isn't what the Torah says. Yahuwah has chosen to communicate His relational plan through His Torah. What you think ("believe") doesn't matter. What the Torah says is what matters.

Yahuwah enabled choice because love cannot be compelled. He want's to spend eternity with those who choose to love Him enough to want to spend eternity with Him. The only thing that separates us from every other animal is our concsience (neshama). If you choose not to use your conscience, your just another animal to Him. Since there is no doggy heaven, or kitty heaven, or bear heaven, etc..., there is no human heaven either. If you choose to use your conscience to mislead people and separate them from Yahuwah, you will spend eternity separated from Him. Or, you can choose to use your conscience to develop a relationship with Yahuwah and live with Him forever.

Yahuwah doesn't have to kill anything. Without Yahuwah's garment of light (given to us through the Set Apart Spirit), animals cannot be present in His radiance. He doesn't go out of His way to kill anything. They just haven't chosen to be protected by Him. We are the only animal that can know and choose to be with Yahuwah. Choose to use your conscience to know Him and He will return the favor. You can start to get to know him by taking the time to read His Torah. Use Yada Yahweh as a tool to help you.

Noah
Offline James  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 12:59:55 PM(UTC)
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GI wrote:
Sure but fist this on what you said.

What a game for Yahweh to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place to judge and kill.
Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over. And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into death and cling to and love the rest in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

This is quite simple, Man’s soul is MORTAL. The Hebrew word nephesh means mortality; all living things have a soul. Look at the Hebrew, the same words translated Living Creature (Chay Nephesh) are translated Living Soul (Chay Nephesh) in Genies. Man is born; he has a mortal life because of his mortal soul. In his life he has free will; part of that free will is the ability to choose to form a relationship with his creator, Yahuweh. If man decides to form a relationship with Yahuweh, then Yahuweh’s Spirit indwells that person, and makes his/her soul immortal, as a result he can live eternally with his creator. If the man/women choose not to form a relationship with Yahuweh, that is their choice, they will live, they will die, and their soul will cease to be. Option 3, the person decides not to choose God, but instead chooses the antitheses of God, the adversary Satan, this person leagues their soul with Satan (for material benefits, sex, power, money etc), their soul becomes eternal, and they cannot spend eternity with Yahuweh, having spent their lives hating Him and leading others away from Him, but they can’t die either, they go to the abyss, were they will spend eternity away from Yahuweh in a lightless timeless state, there is no fire in “hell” that is Christian myth.
It’s that simple, that fair, and that just.

wrote:
As to what I know to be true, none are ever lost to God.
He does not create to kill.
At his worse he does not kill, he cures.

Only a loser of a God would kill and break his own laws.
Does Yahweh not say, though shalt not kill?

Actually if you would take the brief time it would take you to look up the commandments you would see that it says Do Not Commit Murder.
There is a clear distinction between Murder and Killing. Murder is unjust killing. Every language makes a distinction between the two, including Hebrew.

wrote:
Does God break his own laws?

No.

No he doesn’t. But He knows what His law says, and you apparently don’t.
If you read the Torah, he lists many things which un-atoned for mean you are kicked out of the family, which is why He atoned for our sins.

I’m sorry if I sound sarcastic and curt, I have dealt with these same things from people with the same attitude as you. You think you know better than everyone else, yet fail to back up anything you say with a reasoned argument. You sight verses out of context. You come in here and start spouting your ideas as though they are fact, and never take the time to bother to learn anything about the people here. Do yourself a favor take the time to look around the forum, and get to know what people here think, and then come back and try to make a logical and reasonable argument for why we are wrong, or at the very least make a logical and reasonable argument for what you “believe”.
There are several free books on this website. Read them, and then when you find something you disagree with, post it here and ask a question, but do I t in a reasonable way, state what you disagree with, why you disagree with and offer alternative understandings. If you are reasonable you will find the people here to be very open minded, and willing to admit we are wrong, when we are shown that we are, but again, if you are going to say we are wrong, do it in a logical and reasonable way, tell us where we are wrong, explain why you think we are wrong, and then tell us an alternative, and why that alternative is right.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Theophilus  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 3, 2010 4:16:46 AM(UTC)
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Posts: 544
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Quote:
What a game for Yahweh to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place to judge and kill.
Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over. And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into death and cling to and love the rest in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

As to what I know to be true, none are ever lost to God.
He does not create to kill.
At his worse he does not kill, he cures.

Only a loser of a God would kill and break his own laws.
Does Yahweh not say, though shalt not kill?

Does God break his own laws?

No.

Regards
DL

Greetings DL,

I hope that you’ll truly consider the replies above and that you’ve indeed begun to examine the evidence presented in Yada Yahweh. If it helps, think of the three doors less as created places to arbitrarily assign human souls and more as states of eternal being or in the case of the most common door, non-existence / soul death. While Yahweh desires freely chosen covenant relationships with humans made in His image, He cannot and will not compel such a relationship, even if it means that most souls ignore Him and His offer of relationship are given only this life to enjoy and do with what they will.

My understanding is that as great and powerful as Yahweh is, He benefits and grows through these relationships and either will not or (in my opinion) cannot make us more like Him in terms of power and in a state where we can eternally exist in His presence without the indwelling and covering presence of His set-apart Spirit. That this state can only exist when we choose to accept the covenant relationship offer defined in the Torah and which only the Messiyah Yahshua’s atonement makes possible. To ignore this offer of relationship, therefore, leaves most human souls bound for destruction as a natural consequence of not associating with our Creator’s Spirit, NOT as an arbitrary whim of cruel God.

While it appears that you advocate universalism, and worship a god that you say does not kill, have you considered that our Creator designed people universally to die? If universalism were valid, why create death at all since we’re all bound for the same blissful existence anyway?
A
s for your point on man being morally superior to God, I’ve observed humankind doing great harm on one another, in many cases without justification. Maybe you disagree?

Respectfully,

-Theophilus
Offline Greatest I am  
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 4, 2010 4:08:33 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
Joined: 2/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Canada


You people have bought into the fantasy part of religion hook line and sinker.

I prefer to speak to those who do not believe in fantasy entities of all kinds.

We shall see if I want to remain with those who have yet to grow into adults.

Regards
DL
Offline James  
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 4, 2010 5:01:54 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
You people have bought into the fantasy part of religion hook line and sinker.

I prefer to speak to those who do not believe in fantasy entities of all kinds.

We shall see if I want to remain with those who have yet to grow into adults.

Regards
DL

Oh please please enlighten us oh wise adult. (Sarcasm strongly intended)

I prefer to speak with those who make reasonable, rationale, and logical arguments for what they believe, something you have yet to do.

So once again I say to you: please tell us where you think we are wrong, tell us why you think that (in a reasoned, logical argument), and tell us why your alternative is correct. And do so without quoting parts of verses out of context.

And just a piece of advice, if you ever want to have a productive discussion with anyone, stop talking in such a condescending way to people you have just meet and know nothing about.

Edited by user Saturday, March 6, 2010 6:03:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Greatest I am  
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:40:46 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
Joined: 2/28/2010(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Canada

James wrote:
Oh please please enlighten us oh wise adult. (Sarcasm strongly intended)

I prefer to speak with those who make reasonable, rationale, and logical arguments for what they believe, something you have yet to do.

So once again I say to you: please tell us where you think we are wrong, tell us why you think that (in a reasoned, logical argument), and tell us why your alternative is correct. And do so without quoting parts of verses out of context.

And just a piece of advice, if you ever want to have a productive discussion with anyone, stop talking in such a condescending way to people you have just meet and know nothing about.


I will when they earn respect by discarding beliefs in fantasy.

Regards
DL
Offline Matthew  
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:49:37 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
I will when they earn respect by discarding beliefs in fantasy.


Then prove it to be fantasy! No unbeliever I know has yet debunked Scripture. Atheists claim they have done it but yet they haven't.
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