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Offline HebrewHippie  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:45:42 AM(UTC)
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Hi all,

I was wondering if any of you have read many Lunar Sabbath teachings, and perhaps have some insights to share? Is there any validity to the idea that New Moon day begins the 7 day weekly cycle? (whether day 0, or day 1 -there seems to be a discrepency there...)
I'm not sure where I stand, and because I've come from a place of already learning I was wrong on so much, I'm open to the fact there's more, but I wanna be sure before I make any changes. . .

So I welcome any comments, but please back with Scripture, and not just opinion.

Thank u, Shalom.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:32:51 PM(UTC)
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Hey :D

There is something with the new moon which is "Special" maybe other than the start of the month... and Trumpets - I am sure Ken knows more... as for the Shabbat? no - You count six days, and rest on the seventh - no moon linking was ever prescribed by Yah in the 7 day Sabbath cycle... any teaching of such has no basis and as far as I can see is false. You actually see a separation between Sabbaths and New Moon days anyway

But I have been meaning to investigate the new moon days and yes Ken should probably have something on that :)

Here are some out of context quotes with the "New moon" mentioned - notice is normally like "new moon nor Sabbath" "new moon and Sabbath" never the new moon Sabbath. and never commanded to count from the new moon other than to calculate feast days. Passover and the Trumpets for example. But this should give you some places to look up - obviously the translation is pretty pants being ESV...



1 Sam 20:18 Then Jonathan said to him, “Tomorrow is the new moon, and you will be missed, because your seat will be empty.

1 Sam 20:24 So David hid himself in the field. And when the new moon came, the king sat down to eat food.

1 Sam 20:27 But on the second day, the day after the new moon, David’s place was empty. And Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has not the son of Jesse come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

2 Kings 4:23 And he said, “Why will you go to him today? It is neither new moon nor Sabbath.” She said, “All is well.”

1 Chron 23:31 and whenever burnt offerings were offered to the Lord on Sabbaths, new moons, and feast days, according to the number required of them, regularly before the Lord.

2 Chron 2:4 Behold, I am about to build a house for the name of the Lord my God and dedicate it to him for the burning of incense of sweet spices before him, and for the regular arrangement of the showbread, and for burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths and the new moons and the appointed feasts of the Lord our God, as ordained forever for Israel.

2 Chron 8:13 as the duty of each day required, offering according to the commandment of Moses for the Sabbaths, the new moons, and the three annual feasts—the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks, and the Feast of Booths.

2 Chron 31:3 The contribution of the king from his own possessions was for the burnt offerings: the burnt offerings of morning and evening, and the burnt offerings for the Sabbaths, the new moons, and the appointed feasts, as it is written in the Law of the Lord.

Ezra 3:5 and after that the regular burnt offerings, the offerings at the new moon and at all the appointed feasts of the Lord, and the offerings of everyone who made a freewill offering to the Lord.

Neh 10:33 for the showbread, the regular grain offering, the regular burnt offering, the Sabbaths, the new moons, the appointed feasts, the holy things, and the sin offerings to make atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Ps 81:3 Blow the trumpet at the new moon, at the full moon, on our feast day.

Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations— I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates; they have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them.

Isa 47:13 You are wearied with your many counsels; let them stand forth and save you, those who divide the heavens, who gaze at the stars, who at the new moons make known what shall come upon you.

Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the Lord.

Ezek 45:17 It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the
appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

Ezek 46:1 “Thus says the Lord God: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Ezek 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the Lord on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.

Ezek 46:6 On the day of the new moon he shall offer a bull from the herd without blemish, and six lambs and a ram, which shall be without blemish.

Hos 2:11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.

Hos 5:7 They have dealt faithlessly with the Lord; for they have borne alien children. Now the new moon shall devour them with their fields.

Amos 8:5 saying, “When will the new moon be over, that we may sell grain? And the Sabbath, that we may offer wheat for sale, that we may make the ephah small and the shekel great and deal deceitfully with false balances,

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
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Offline HebrewHippie  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:33:31 AM(UTC)
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Thank you for your reply.
At present I haven't really been celebrating new moons, but I think I'm starting to see that this is important. Considering the Amos 8:5 scripture, it seems new moon is a kind of sabbath, if they weren't allowed to sell grain, should we be keeping New Moon as a sabbath day, and not working?

Does anyone "keep New Moon" in any way that they'd like to share?
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:41:55 AM(UTC)
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HebrewHippie wrote:
Thank you for your reply.
At present I haven't really been celebrating new moons, but I think I'm starting to see that this is important. Considering the Amos 8:5 scripture, it seems new moon is a kind of sabbath, if they weren't allowed to sell grain, should we be keeping New Moon as a sabbath day, and not working?

Does anyone "keep New Moon" in any way that they'd like to share?


a very interesting question I would like to discuss more myself :)
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Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 11:12:20 AM(UTC)
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Well from my understanding the new moon relates to calculating when Passover and Unleavened Bread occurs as well as the Feast of Trumpets.

It sounds as if they think they're following Yahweh but when in reality they're not, just like following Orthodox Judaism. It's gotten to a point that the people just want to forget about God and His calendar and do business instead. They've corrupted God's Feasts so much that in verse 10 Yahweh recognizes them to be their "religious feasts" and not His. Christians think Easter is God's feast of Passover, which obviously it ain't.

Maybe this passage is talking of Orthodox Judaism, and other forms of Jewish beliefs, because the timeline suggests this occurs towards the End Times, but I could be wrong.
Offline HebrewHippie  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 12:35:39 PM(UTC)
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Matthew wrote:
Well from my understanding the new moon relates to calculating when Passover and Unleavened Bread occurs as well as the Feast of Trumpets.

It sounds as if they think they're following Yahweh but when in reality they're not, just like following Orthodox Judaism. It's gotten to a point that the people just want to forget about God and His calendar and do business instead. They've corrupted God's Feasts so much that in verse 10 Yahweh recognizes them to be their "religious feasts" and not His. Christians think Easter is God's feast of Passover, which obviously it ain't.

Maybe this passage is talking of Orthodox Judaism, and other forms of Jewish beliefs, because the timeline suggests this occurs towards the End Times, but I could be wrong.



New moons mark the start of each month, so in essence they're used to calculate all the Feasts, and not just those two.....?

YHWH is definitely admonishing people for not keeping HIS feasts/sabbaths and appointed times. It just seems to me that with the blowing of trumpets to mark the start of each month; that there is mention of certain sacrifices/offerings brought specifically on New Moon; and that they wanted new moon to be over so that they could resume business, it seems that new moon day is a special day, and perhaps it is a kind of sabbath aside from the weekly one, in that there are offerings, and perhaps we shouldn't be working on this day. . .
Whether or not that means the new moon kinda "resets" the weekly cycle (which is what I'm gathering 'lunar sabbath teachings' are saying) is what's unclear...to me there doesn't really seem to be scripture suggesting that....or that it doesn't actually...

This is an area that I seem to need to research at the moment, so I hope to discuss it further with you guys; those that are interested in looking into it.
At the end of the day, it just really shows how far removed we became from YHWH's way; and how much I look forward to His return when He will restore ALL things!!
Offline shalom82  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 3:42:11 PM(UTC)
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Hello Hebrew Hippie
Welcome to the forum. As it pertains to the doctrine of an actual lunar sabbath...not just rosh chodesh....there have actually been other threads started on this that in my mind thoroughly answer the question about whether or not lunar sabbath is a valid practice/belief. You might be interested in using the search tool to find these threads. I think they will be helpful to you.

Take care

:)
YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline HebrewHippie  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 9:34:22 PM(UTC)
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thank you, I will hunt for them...
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 3, 2010 11:49:20 PM(UTC)
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The reason we say only Trumpets and Passover - is that Trumpets starts on a new moon and Passover starts 14 days after - we are told to count from the new moon for Passover and watch for it for Trumpets. For the others we count days from either Passover or Trumpets.
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Offline Matthew  
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 4, 2010 12:32:33 AM(UTC)
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Welcome to the forum HebrewHippie, and welcome back shalom82, it's been a long time!

This is an interesting thread!

Torah does speak of particular burnt, grain and drink offerings being performed on the first of every month in Numbers 28:11-15, and then in Numbers 29:1-6 it references the new moon for the Feast of Trumpets. Scripture doesn't suggest the first of every month is a Sabbath, but just tells the priests what they are to do on those particular days. So I'm assuming it's a normal business as usual for the rest of the clan.

Could it be possible that Trumpets is also called a/the New Moon Festival? We know many Jews call it Rosh Hashanah.

HebrewHippie wrote:
New moons mark the start of each month, so in essence they're used to calculate all the Feasts, and not just those two.....?


I think you have a point here because we would need to know when the first of the seventh month is in order to calculate the Day of Reconcilliations/Atonement and Tabernacles. Hence the new moon starting the first and seventh months are especially important in order to determine when the Feasts are to occur.

As far as I know the new moon cycle is not linked to the Sabbath cycle. However, Yahweh did link the two up when He fulfilled Unleavened Bread on a natural Sabbath on the Saturday of 2 April 33CE (15 Nissan/Abib 4000). And the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukah) should also be fulfilled on a natural Sabbath on 8 October 2033CE, which will be 15 Tishri 6000.
Offline danshelper  
#11 Posted : Friday, March 19, 2010 2:13:51 AM(UTC)
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Has anyone here read the booklet "It's About Time": http://eliyahsmessage.com/time.pdf?

I'm really curious what you think of this author's deductions - based on the book of Enoch and the science of astronomy. Thanks very much.
Offline bigritchie  
#12 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 6:31:28 AM(UTC)
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HebrewHippie wrote:
Thank you for your reply.
At present I haven't really been celebrating new moons, but I think I'm starting to see that this is important. Considering the Amos 8:5 scripture, it seems new moon is a kind of sabbath, if they weren't allowed to sell grain, should we be keeping New Moon as a sabbath day, and not working?

Does anyone "keep New Moon" in any way that they'd like to share?


I always go outside and blow my shofar every new moon.

Someone has to let the pagans know the new month has begun :-)
Offline J&M  
#13 Posted : Saturday, April 17, 2010 7:50:22 AM(UTC)
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The moon is vastly important as the basis of YHWH's lunar calender upon which is based the Jubilee cycles of 7 years and 49 (7 x 7) years.

However it must be remembered that it is part of creation not the Creator. Moon god worship is part of the Islamic tradition and history.

That having been said, it is a wonderful pointer to creation.

1. It is too big relative to the size of earth to have been captured by the earth's gravity.

2. It stabilizes the earths 'tilt' giving us seasons in order.

3. By tidal action, it continually stirs the oceans making the difference between stagnation and a huge reserve of heat and disolved gasses which brings life to the oceans.

4. It totally eclipses the Sun alowing all sorts of measurements to be taken which would normally be hidden.

All this, is of course purely random for many scientists

see the video at :- http://video.google.com/...cid=5488284265590289530#

However, I do not think there is any new moon sabbath as such.

Offline bigritchie  
#14 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 5:59:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: J& Go to Quoted Post
The moon is vastly important as the basis of YHWH's lunar calender upon which is based the Jubilee cycles of 7 years and 49 (7 x 7) years.

However it must be remembered that it is part of creation not the Creator. Moon god worship is part of the Islamic tradition and history.

That having been said, it is a wonderful pointer to creation.

1. It is too big relative to the size of earth to have been captured by the earth's gravity.

2. It stabilizes the earths 'tilt' giving us seasons in order.

3. By tidal action, it continually stirs the oceans making the difference between stagnation and a huge reserve of heat and disolved gasses which brings life to the oceans.

4. It totally eclipses the Sun alowing all sorts of measurements to be taken which would normally be hidden.

All this, is of course purely random for many scientists

see the video at :- http://video.google.com/...cid=5488284265590289530#

However, I do not think there is any new moon sabbath as such.



I think one of the coolest things about the Book of Enoch is how he is told the Moon and Sun were both hung, and that even though the sun is so much larger then the moon, they were hung specifically to look the exact same size to use from earth.
Offline kp  
#15 Posted : Monday, April 19, 2010 6:44:19 AM(UTC)
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Your reference, Bigritchie, of the sun and moon being "hung" reminded me of an epiphany I had the other day. In my work on The Torah Code, I was exploring the concept of chaos (tohu), and how it contrasts with Yahweh's order. And the concept is discussed by Job:

Quote:
The word tohu—formless emptiness—is used twenty times in the Hebrew scriptures. It is first used to describe the reality of the unrealized primeval universe. To Yahweh, even “nothing” is something to work with: “He stretches out the north over the void [tohu] and hangs the earth on nothing.” (Job 26:7) It wasn’t until Sir Isaac Newton had his famous “apple epiphany” that we understood the significance of that second phrase: “hanging the earth on nothing” is an amazingly astute description of the force of gravity. But what about that enigmatic first statement? To “stretch out” (Hebrew: natah) is to extend, to spread out, or to hold out. The word is used to describe pitching a tent or bending a bow: there is tension involved; energy is being utilized in a very controlled way. “The north” (Hebrew: saphown) is based on a verb (saphan) that means to hide, treasure, or store up. We can easily see the connection (once we know what we’re looking for) in verses like: “His holy mountain, beautiful in elevation, is the joy of all the earth, Mount Zion, in the far north, the city of the great King.” (Psalm 48:2) Mount Zion is in Jerusalem, not north of it, but it is definitely Yahweh’s special treasure. “North” here is a symbol of being hidden or stored up as something precious to Yahweh. And tohu, as we’ve seen, is empty space, formlessness.

All of you astro-physicists reading this can smell where I’m going with it, can’t you? Bearing in mind that I’m a graphic artist by trade, not a scientist, here’s what I’m thinking: Recent measurements have led cosmologists to believe that the stuff that comprises the universe is largely unknown. We can only see about 4% of it—a mere 0.4% consisting of stars and planets, and 3.6% being composed of intergalactic gasses. Since the galaxies and galaxy clusters hold together in a measurable way, however, the scientists calculate that about 22% of the universe’s mass is something they’ve named “dark matter”—providing the gravitational pull required for this observed cohesion. But the space between these things is expanding—and contrary to all previous expectations, the rate of expansion is actually accelerating. This cosmic expansion has led these scientists to postulate that a full 74% of the universe is composed of a mysterious force they call “dark energy.” This is calculated to be very homogeneous (spread uniformly throughout empty space), having a very low density (10-29 grams per cubic centimeter), and exhibiting “negative pressure” (that is, it acts repulsively), enabling it to expand the boundaries of the universe.

Physicists can only deal with what they can measure. God’s prophets, on the other hand, can report what is revealed to them, whether they understand it or not. What was it Job said? “He stretches out the north over the void.” Translated more fully: “Yahweh extends, stretches or spreads out, and holds in place His hidden treasure over empty, formless space.” Gee, it sounds to me like Job, a God-fearing sheep rancher, described “dark energy” quite well, some four thousand years ago. But there’s something about this that should give us all pause. Yahweh’s intended pattern is to move from chaos to order, from progress to completion. Note that (in Job’s words) chaos—tohu—is still part of the formula describing the physical reality of the universe as God has made it. But when progress eventually gives way to perfection under Yahweh’s guidance, the physical universe as we know it (or think we know it) will have been rendered obsolete.


Basically, I just thought that quote from Job was totally awesome.

kp
Offline kp  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:11:29 AM(UTC)
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If I stand in my back yard and look up at the night sky, I can't tell what the universe is doing. All I have to go on is the measurements (red shift and so forth) that scientists have made, leading them to the current consensus. I am reminded that the scientific community hated the implications of their findings, first of "big bang," (since it---if you're willing to be honest with yourself---pulled the rug out from beneath the feet of the Darwinists, leaving them nothing remotely close to the time needed for their theory of the origin of life to be plausible), and then of the accelerating cosmic expansion (which strongly suggests that this "creation" thingie has only happened once and will never happen again). All of this data implies (actually, demands) a Creator, a Designer---something the scientists are extremely uncomfortable with. So they postulate hypothesis upon hypothesis (things like dark matter and dark energy) to deal with their findings. At least they (well, some of them) have the intellectual honesty to admit the data they find, whether they "like" it or not. All I wanted to say is that what they see in the sky with the most sophisticated instruments ever devised by man is totally compatible with the earliest, "most primitive" writings in the Word of God.

The Torah Code, by the way, is the book I'm currently working on, a project of which quite a few forum participants are aware. Actually, the first 250 pages or so (3 chapters) are ready for publication on the Web (like Future History and The Owner's Manual, TTC will be free online), but our beloved webmaster, Yow'el, who's had the project for a while now, hasn't been able to find the time to put the website up yet. (And I thought I was slow :-) . Anyway, The Torah Code is a comprehensive exploration of the symbols Yahweh uses in His Word. It's a natural outgrowth of my study of the Torah---The Owner's Manual.

Oh, and by the way, welcome to the forum!

kp
Offline James  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:26:22 AM(UTC)
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kp wrote:
but our beloved webmaster, Yow'el, who's had the project for a while now, hasn't been able to find the time to put the website up yet.


Yow'el needs to get on the ball, I can't wait to read TTC. :)
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

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Offline bitnet  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2010 4:30:13 AM(UTC)
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Shalom,

Perhaps Robski can be of service in getting TTC to the web?
The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of Wisdom.
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2010 5:34:13 AM(UTC)
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Well I can if Yowel is full up. I have a high priority site going out soon, so I am coding that - and then I have a few other little things going on... always happy to help though.
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Offline kp  
#20 Posted : Friday, May 7, 2010 3:06:20 AM(UTC)
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rv wrote:

Quote:
It appears there may be a unique role for YAH's Truth to help bring them back to eretz and start practicing real science again. How ironic that the stone that the builders rejected could well become their chief cornerstone.


I totally agree, rv. Some have guessed that the Millennial Kingdom will be a simpler age---that we'll revert to technology as it was in the first century. I don't see that at all. Rather, I see the "Solomon effect" in play. When a King of infinite wisdom sits on the throne, knowledge will increase (Gee, where did I read that?) beyond anything we can now imagine---in every area of endeavor. The Messiah/King will be able to point out what we've missed in His scriptures, and tell us how to find answers for questions we were never before smart enough to ask. Yes, I think you're right: during the Millennium, we'll be practicing real science again!

kp
Offline kp  
#21 Posted : Saturday, May 8, 2010 3:39:12 AM(UTC)
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Bayes sounds like a really smart guy. I think that maybe what we need to take away from the discussion, however, is that one doesn't have to have the intellectual capacity a Newton or Kepler---or Bayes---to perceive the Creator. A little child can do it---or a relative dummy like me. It stands to reason, of course, that all of the real evidence that emerges (as opposed to the "dark stuff" that got us off on this tangent) will tend to confirm what Yahweh has told us about Himself. But I don't think He's interested in "proving" His existence to the point that mankind is left with no choice but to acquiesce to the evidence. It seems to me that making up our minds about Him is the essence of the "work" we are assigned to do during these first six millennia. But the Sabbath is coming---the seventh "day" of Yahweh's seven-thousand-year "week"---in which faith will be transformed into sight, in which the choice we made to honor the God we perceived in nature will be vindicated with His personal presence once again in this world.

I can hardly wait.

kp
Offline cgb2  
#22 Posted : Friday, May 21, 2010 8:57:47 AM(UTC)
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> Can see why people are anxiously awaiting TWTY's amplified translation of Yahuchanon's eye-witness account

Very much so !
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