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Offline Heretic Steve  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 9, 2009 10:16:04 AM(UTC)
Heretic Steve
Joined: 9/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 258
Location: ohio

This is sort of a spinoff ques from the marriage thread where 'rendering unto Ceasar' was mentioned. So, just what are we to render?
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 9, 2009 11:23:17 AM(UTC)
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Taxes most likely. Even your head if they demand it during the Tribulation.
Offline Heretic Steve  
#3 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 10:20:53 AM(UTC)
Heretic Steve
Joined: 9/26/2007(UTC)
Posts: 258
Location: ohio

Won't be here during the Trib. As to taxes? What if they confiscate all or nearly all? Are we to meekly submit? What if Caesar said our wives are to be prostitutes and the proceeds be given to him, (Caligulla did this sort of thing). You gonna say "Sure, have at it"? Is there no right to resist? And speaking of meek. This board has been gettin' kinda wimpy. I ask tough questions and nobody responds. For example, if the Passover sacrificial lamb is to die at twilight, then how come He died at 3 pm?
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Offline StuDent  
#4 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 12:08:48 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 9/5/2008(UTC)
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Location: Carolina

Well, Steve, I must apoligize. I started to respond a couple times to your post but lately I feel like I'm being pulled in 100 different directions. I can never come up with the time to properly address so many things I feel I have figured out in my own mind.

So much that I have come to know as truth seems as though it will take me years to explain.Not that any of it is complicated at all but it is very foreign to most who hear it. It's like telling someone up is down, and even among the collection of critical thinkers we have here, I'm not sure many carry this way of thought into other parts of their lives besides their understanding of relationship with God.

The same deception that has been perpetrated by the worlds religions, has been done likewise,or hand in hand, by the state, by the bankers, and those in commerce and law.

I want to be set-apart from all of it, not only religion. I am making small steps in this direction, daily arming myself with a better understanding of how I allowed this entrapment to happen. The main point of that last sentence, if you didn't allready catch it, is that we allow it to happen. We consent. Accepting the benefits, coupled with our silence and willingness to join into contracts at every turn with the above mentioned group of deceivers it what gives them their power over us. Before anyone points out that the govt. has guns and prisons and will use force to make me submit, realize that this is a red herring, what I'm concerned with in this regard is being right, lawful. I am confident that I will be protected, because I am right. I no longer have fear of any man, nor death. As Joan of Arc said: "I am not afraid…I was born to do this."

The problem with discussing this topic here is that instead of judging the lawfulness/righteousness/correctness of my position, I think most try to picture the way of life that this would entail should one choose to not participate in the systems that men use to govern other men. I have to agree that it would be a rather poor monastic lifestyle, but only if you use their unit of measure when you count my wealth. And as to being considered and outcast or an idiot, I think that set-apart might be a more descriptive term.

A big battle is approaching fast that I myself see as an opportunity.The sentence/consequence of disobeying Yahweh's instruction to use honest weights and measures is close to being carried out IMHO. The economic crisis that caught so many by surprise last fall was just the tip of the iceberg that we are about to hit. From the first day that the govt. was conned or bribed or threatened into trading the use of public money for private credit instead, the outcome was determined. The debt cannot be repaid. Our socalled "legal tender" is nothing but debt, a promise to pay. A promise that can only be kept for so long. When nation states begin to break these promises one by one, alot of bad things will begin to happen. We haven't begun to even picture how difficult life will be when this happens.Anyway a new currency will be needed and I for one don't plan on accepting any more private credit if I'm still using it by then.

I think I'm drifting a little but it is this acceptance of private fed credit that enables them to tax you, as well as a number of other ways that you franchise or contract with them. They have an intrest in every transaction/contract that you make using their note. What I'm saying is that so long as you do this, you will not escape their grasp.

My eyes are starting to cross so I need to take a break.I hope to post more later, if I don't get jumped on too bad.
"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he"
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2009 2:07:58 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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Heretic Steve wrote:
I ask tough questions and nobody responds. For example, if the Passover sacrificial lamb is to die at twilight, then how come He died at 3 pm?


How long was He hanging up on the Upright Pole for?
Offline Matthew  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:48:10 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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EDIT:

As far as I'm aware Yahshua was hung up at about 9am (third hour Jewish time) and died at about 3pm (ninth hour Jewish time), and then was taken down and placed within the tomb before sunset. After He died Joseph of Arimathea, accompanied by Nicodemus (John 19:39), still had go and request permission from Pilate to take His body down and prepare it for burial according to Jewish burial customs.

Here's a decent timeline of the crucifixion events:

http://christianity.abou...es/a/jesusfinalhours.htm

From what I hear Matthew, Mark and Luke use Jewish timekeeping and John uses Roman timekeeping.

And about Caesar: I guess we need to understand and learn from Daniel, he never bowed to compromising.
Offline Mike  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 23, 2009 8:22:00 AM(UTC)
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Joined: 10/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 541
Location: Texas

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Was thanked: 24 time(s) in 16 post(s)
Mat 22:15 Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to trap Him in His words.
Mat 22:16 And they sent to Him their taught ones with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of Elohim in truth, and it does not concern You about anyone, for You are not partial to any man.
Mat 22:17 “Then say to us, what do You think? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
Mat 22:18 But knowing their wickedness, יהושע said, “Why do you try Me, you hypocrites?
Mat 22:19 “Show Me the coin of the tax.” And they brought Him a silver piece.
Mat 22:20 And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?”
Mat 22:21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” And He said to them, “Then give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to Elohim what is Elohim’s.”
Mat 22:22 And having heard, they marvelled, and left Him and went away.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s means give the worthless thing to the worthless thing.

Give to Elohim what is Elohim’s means love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might. Yahweh created and owns the entire universe. What else could you possibly give him besides your love?
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