Here is a study I did a couple of years ago, before I discovered YY.
I was working with the, what I thought at the time was accurate, resources from e-Sword.

Woman shall not be/become a vessel/tool/thing/instrument/weapon of a warrior/valiant man
neither shall a warrior/valiant man put on a woman’s garment,
for whoever does this is an abomination to Yahweh your Elohim.

I would like to see this in the YY amplified version using the oldest manuscripts to see how it differs.

I was, at the time, getting involved with Yahweh's Assembly in Yahshua, which had an elder 3 1/2 hours away.
They forbid women to wear pants at any gathering, and my question everything mind didn't accept their premise without verifying.

This was my response to the elders:

---

I notice that Deuteronomy 22:5 is used to forbid women from wearing pants, I did a thorough study on this verse and found it greatly mistranslated.
Upon examination this verse can not be used to control how women dress.

(Deuteronomy 22:5)
“A woman does not wear1961 that which pertains 3627 to a man,1397, nor does a man put on3847 a woman’s
garment8071, for whoever does this is an abomination to Yahweh your Elohim.

Look at the words I’ve underlined

H1961
hâyâh
BDB Definition:

Quoted Text
to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out



STRONGS:

Quoted Text
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.



Looking at all the verses hâyâh is used, wear is not a correct translation, and this verse is
the only place it is translated as such, none of the other verses even come close to
meaning wear or put on as in clothing.

Look how the word means as it is used in The Creation:

(Genesis 1:2) And the earth was1961 without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of Elohim moved upon the face of the waters.

(Genesis 1:3) And Elohim said, Let there be1961 light: and there was1961 light.

(Genesis 1:5) And Elohim called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were1961 the first day.

(Genesis 1:6) And Elohim said, Let there be1961 a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let1961 it divide the waters from the waters.

(Genesis 1:7) And Elohim made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was1961 so.

(Genesis 1:8) And Elohim called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were1961 the second day.

Also look how that word is used and what it means in it’s other uses in Deuteronomy 22:

2 “And if your brother is not near you, or if you do not know him, then you shall bring it to your own house, and it shall be1961 with you until your brother seeks it, then you shall return it to him.

19 and fine him one hundred pieces of silver and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name on a maiden of Yisra’ĕl. And she is to be1961 his wife, he is not allowed to put her away all his days.

20 “But if the matter is1961 true, that the girl was not found a maiden,

23 “When a girl who is a maiden is1961 engaged to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her,

29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty pieces of silver, and she is to be1961 his wife because he has humbled her. He is not allowed to put her away all his days.

If Yahweh meant this part of the verse to mean wear or put on clothing why wasn’t
H3847 used like in the 2nd half of the verse?

H3847
lâbash / lâbêsh
BDB Definition:

Quoted Text
to dress, wear, clothe, put on clothing, be clothed



STRONGS:

Quoted Text
A primitive root; properly wrap around, that is, (by implication) to put on a garment or clothe (oneself, or another), literally or figuratively: - (in) apparel, arm, array (self), clothe (self), come upon, put (on, upon), wear.






Look at the next underlined word:

H3627
kelîy
BDB Definition:

Quoted Text
1) article, vessel, implement, utensil
1a) article, object (general)
1b) utensil, implement, apparatus, vessel
1b1) implement (of hunting or war)
1b2) implement (of music)
1b3) implement, tool (of labour)
1b4) equipment, yoke (of oxen)
1b5) utensils, furniture
1c) vessel, receptacle (general)
1d) vessels (boats) of paper-reed


STRONGS:

Quoted Text
From H3615; something prepared, that is, any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): - armour ([-bearer]), artillery, bag, carriage, + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of, X one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, + psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, + whatsoever

.

Total KJV Occurrences:

Quoted Text
vessels,132 instruments,37 vessel,34 jewels,21 armourbearer,18 weapons,17 stuff,14 thing,11 armour,10 furniture,7 weapon,4 whatsoever,3 bag,2 carriage,2 instrument,2 artillery,1 carriages,1 furnish,1 jewel,1 made,1 one,1 pot,1 psalteries,1 psaltery,1 tool,1 wares,1



No place else in Scripture is this word used to mean clothing.
Again, if Yahweh meant this part of the verse to mean women wearing pants, why didn’t He use the word He used in the 2nd half of the verse?

H8071
śimlâh
BDB Definition:

Quoted Text
wrapper, mantle, covering garment, garments, clothes, raiment, a cloth


STRONGS:

Quoted Text
Perhaps by permutation for the feminine of H5566 (through the idea of a cover assuming the shape of the object beneath); a dress, especially a mantle: - apparel, cloth (-es, -ing), garment, raiment





Let’s look at the next underlined word:

H1397
geber
BDB Definition:

Quoted Text
man, strong man, warrior (emphasizing strength or ability to fight)



STRONGS:

Quoted Text
From H1396; properly a valiant man or warrior; generally a person simply: - every one, man, X mighty.



This word does not imply man in general terms, but a warrior. If it were meant to mean man in general wouldn’t Yahweh have used:

H376
'îysh
BDB Definition:

Quoted Text
1) man
1a) man, male (in contrast to woman, female)



So with a word study of this verse, it would be more correctly interpreted as:

Woman shall not be/become a vessel/tool/thing/instrument/weapon of a warrior/valiant man
neither shall a warrior/valiant man put on a woman’s garment,
for whoever does this is an abomination to Yahweh your Elohim.

I believe this whole verse is a command to men, and is wrongly translated and used as a command to how women dress.

I've always considered this a prohibition against cross-dressing,
not a dress code.

Women in jeans are probably fine.
Men in kilts? Well, I don't have the legs to pull it off, but probably not taboo.

Now, men dressed as Cher? over the line...

Walt I'm pretty sure that KP wrote on this passage in TOM or WMM. If I have time I'll see what I can dig out on this if no one can find it first.

I was just thinking on this and wondered about the contrast between warrior and women. Could it be that disguising warriors as women / non-combatants is in view? Anther possibility that occurs to me is in recognizing geneder roles.

http://www.thewaytoyahuw.../1_corinthians#chapter11



Swalchy seems to know a lot about Corithian culture. I think they were steeped in homosexuality, men trying to be women and women trying to be men. It also has to do with pagan temple customs and prostitutes.

Correct. I seldom take more than a passing glance at the structure of a passage unless it seems to contradict the bulk of scriptural revelation. And this one is perfectly consistent with other Torah passages in that it forbids men and women usurping each others' roles---for the reasons I stated in TOM. But don't put words in my mouth: I didn't say, nor do I believe, that women shouldn't wear pants---unless, of course, her reason for doing so is to pass herself off as a man for the purpose of assuming a man's role in society. The precept has, as you guys have noted, next to nothing to do with clothing per se, and everything to do with fulfilling Yahweh's symbolic order. If you can imagine the Ruach Qodesh seizing power and authority from Yahweh, or placing Herself in competition with Yahshua, then you can envision the kind of thing this precept is forbidding.

kp

So in conclusion, the woman shouldn't wear the pants in the family.

See, that's part of the issue - in using the dictionaries available - that word isn't "garment"
Garment is used later in the verse - and it's a different word

The word associated with women is mostly translated as jewel, vessel, instrument, weapon, Armour, furniture.

So she's not wearing it
It's not a garment

Thanks James

Very interesting

I hadn't considered word order - it makes a difference it what is being said.

If women is 1st - then they shouldn't hayah as a thing of man
If thing of man comes before women, then it shouldn't hayah with women

Word order total changes the meaning

I hope we are not forbidden.

I love my jeans.

:D

and LOL at ed..put your pants on!!!

I did a double take when I read this thread title - I take it you mean trousers not underwear?! LOL

How does this fit in with the lovely mohammed dressing as a woman?

Perhaps too, it would refer to not having women bear weapons and to to war?

Shabbat Shalom,

This makes it more interesting and adds another facet to our understanding... not taking lives because women are supposed to give birth and nurture a la our spiritual mother Ruach Qodesh. Then again, would Yahweh not want women to fight if it really is in self defence? Would He expect women not to bear arms when they and their families are being raped and slaughtered? And would it be wrong if women are wearing women's clothes when they fight? Technicalities, some of us may say, but this needs some thinking.

I think this is an awesome perspective

Adds another dimension to the meaning

All she really needs is a healthy respect for Yahweh and a tent peg. Judges 4:21

kp

Shalom,

ed, I know of your background so I can understand your interest in Judges, but I had KP "pegged" as a pacifist... Hahahaha!

To think that a God would give a hoot about how we clothe ourselves is bordering on silliness.

I admit that he may have something to say about how we unclothe ourselves but that would be for safety, not modesty.

Regards
DL

I think you completely took what annahuds09 was saying out of context. She was not saying that Yah needs it to tell us apart, only that we should keep a distinction. Men and Women are different, we play different roles, and we should take pride in our differences.