logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Yada  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 10:02:35 AM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I have heard it said by many, many Catholics that, if it were not for the RCC, we would have no "Bible." It got me thinking and I wanted to pose the question here on the forum: what exactly is the history of 66/40 (the 66 books of Scripture, penned by 40 authors)? How were these diverse books perserved and finally assembled in the form we have today?

Of course, if the RCC were so committed to the cause of Scripture, their follow-up doesn't seem to make a lot of sense:

Quote:
It wasn't until John Wycliffe translated the New Testament out of Latin and into the Anglo Saxon precursor to English in 1384, that common people were once again able to read, and thus understand, Yahshua's message and mission. But John and his scribes could only write 1,000 copies, and the Roman Catholic Church burned all but 125 of those. So fearful were they over the Scripture's threat to their power, they murdered the scribes who worked with Wycliffe and then they confiscated John's ashes, publicly desecrating them and finally dumping them in a river. So as you contemplate your freedom to read this book, to live in a land free of religious tyranny, to think for yourself, thank John. Had Wycliffe not bothered to expose and condemn the lies and liars, had he not been willing to witness to the truth, there would have been no Reformation, no curtailment of clerical power, no pilgrims in the New World, no nation like America.


The above was takend from, Yada Yahweh, Book VI : God Damn Religion, The Church Age, Chapter 4, Jezebel - Exalting Ba'al. The complete chapter can be found here.

-Yada

Edited by user Tuesday, August 7, 2007 8:50:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 7, 2007 11:08:03 PM(UTC)
Robskiwarrior
Joined: 7/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,470
Man
Location: England

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
if it was'nt for John Wycliffe... not RCC... if the RCC had their way we would'nt have a "bible". It would be in latin and held by their priests. lol
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Yada  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 8, 2007 9:05:16 AM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I think those reading this thread have misunderstood (or not read through completely) my original post.

Let me restate my original question (and original intent) of the post:

Quote:
-what exactly is the history of 66/40 (the 66 books of Scripture, penned by 40 authors)? How were these diverse books perserved and finally assembled in the form we have today?


Can anyone answer this and walk me through the history?

Thanks.

-Yada
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline kp  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 8, 2007 10:52:34 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

"Roman Catholic contributions the Bile? Sounds like a Freudian typo to me.
Could you check that link, Swalchy? I'm getting an error message.

kp
Offline Yada  
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:52:57 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

In answer to the question: How was the present collection of Scripture (what is commonly and mistaken referred to as the "Bible") put together? - I came across this material that I thought I would post here:

Quote:
Question: "How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?"

Answer: The term "canon" is used to describe the books that are divinely inspired and therefore belong in the Bible. The difficult aspect of determining the Biblical canon is that the Bible does not give us a list of the books that belong in the Bible. Determining the canon was a process, first by Jewish rabbis and scholars, and then later by early Christians. Ultimately, it was God who decided what books belonged in the Biblical canon. A book of Scripture belonged in the canon from the moment God inspired its writing. It was simply a matter of God convincing His human followers which books should be included in the Bible.

Compared to the New Testament, there was very little controversy over the canon of the Old Testament. Hebrew believers recognized God’s messengers, and accepted their writings as inspired of God. There was undeniably some debate in regards to the Old Testament canon. However, by 250 A.D. there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha…with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but not on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the Apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John. The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in (A.D. 170). The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In A.D. 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the New Testament were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (A.D. 393) and the Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the Body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God convincing His followers of what He had already decided upon. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.


The web site can be found here.

Does anyone have any comments on the above?

-Yada
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline Yada  
#6 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:32:43 PM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

I found this additional content that I thought was pertinent. I never knew that the "Bible" - Scripture was not arranged chronologically.

To quote:

Quote:
Can you explain how the Bible is put together?

The Bible consists of many books. They are not arranged chronologically; instead, they are grouped by type.

The first five books make up what is called the Pentateuch. They include the five books that Moses wrote: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. These books contain the creation account and the events concerning the Israelites, for example.

The next set of books—Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther—gives an outline of the history of God’s intervention in the lives of His people. All of the attributes of God are plainly seen in these writings.

Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Songs are considered to be the Wisdom books. They contain poetry, prayers, prophecy and teachings about living a godly life.

The rest of the Old Testament books are the writings of the major and minor prophets. These include Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

The New Testament contains four major sections:

The Gospels—Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John—give the account of Jesus' life and teachings.

Acts is the record of the history of the early Church and work of the Holy Spirit.

The Epistles, or letters, are teachings intended to guide believers as they live for Jesus Christ.

John’s vision of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, as well as the events surrounding it and following it, is recorded in the Book of Revelation. This is a very important book, vital to Christians in these last days.


I took the above from this site.

Any comments?

-Yada

Edited by user Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:23:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline Tiffany  
#7 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:00:02 PM(UTC)
Tiffany
Joined: 6/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 185
Woman

Quote:
The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the Body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God convincing His followers of what He had already decided upon. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.


I dont know if I buy the statements above, although it sounds good I have seen what the church has done in just the last few years and I would have a hard time buying into the idea Yahweh had to get his human counterparts to buy into this.

I think this is just man trying to make his way seem ok, when in the light of all light it shows just how dirty we really are! Any thoughts?
Offline Yada  
#8 Posted : Sunday, August 12, 2007 5:54:44 AM(UTC)
Yada
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,537

This was interesting Swalchy - thanks.

-Yada
If you'd like to join the YY Study Group room on Paltalk - just click here. The lockword is: yadayahweh
You can download the free software here.
Hope to see everyone on Paltalk!
WARNING: Do not give out personal information (name, address, etc.) to anyone on Paltalk - ever!
Offline kp  
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:35:22 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

In the interests of "following our nose" instead of sticking to the original thread, I offer the following observations about the arrangement of prophetic chronology of the book of Revelation:

(1) The seven "churches" written to in chapters 2 and 3, in addition to being seven actual congregations in Asia Minor, most certainly (we can see in the light of history) represent seven successive phases that the ekklesia would go through from its inception until its obsolescence (marked by the rapture). In an unexpected twist, the last "church" on the list will inhabit the earth after the rapture.

(2) There are three series of judgments listed in Revelation, the seals, the trumpets, and the bowl judgments. These series are not consecutive (i.e., seals, then trumpets, then bowls) as some (notably LaHaye) claim. The only way they make sense when compared to the rest of scripture is that the three groups are independent---they stand alone. They apparently overlap to some extent chronologically, and they all take place within the last seven years of "earth as we know it." The seals encompass virtually the entire Tribulation. The Trumpets (a more specific look at significant events within the seven year time frame) begin perhaps a year into the Trib and wind up ushering in the Kingdom of Yahshua. The bowls all take place after the abomination of desolation, when the mark of the beast in instituted---near the midpoint. So they're all concentrated in the last three and a half years.

(3) These three individual series of judgments do appear, however, to be chronological within themselves. If they are, it means the Antichrist shows up before war and famine for instance, and nuclear war precedes a great volcano-driven tsunami that wipes out commercial Babylon, which in turn precedes a meteorite that poisions the earth's fresh water supplies, and so forth. If analyzed according to these "ground rules," every bit of yet-to-be fulfilled prophecy fits like a glove.

kp
Offline J&M  
#10 Posted : Saturday, September 8, 2007 11:57:33 AM(UTC)
J&M
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 234
Location: Eretz Ha'Quodesh

Further, Christianity appears to have come to UK very early on, perhaps in the first century (do not get this confused with the 'bloodline of Messiah' stuff however).

We know very little of what form this 'Christianity' took because it was totally (and thoroughly) obliterated by the RCC in the 9th century.

Odd fragments from this community turn up from time to time especially in Wales where the RCC took its longest to penetrate. Curiously, the archeologists are suprised they have not found remains of more church buildings....
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.