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Offline Y.I.K.  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2009 12:44:16 PM(UTC)
Y.I.K.
Joined: 9/17/2009(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: Dallas, Texas

Because, from my understanding at least, He is never named in the Old Covenant. So what about in the Renewed Covenant? Nomina Sacra right? Well, how do we know what each placeholder means? Is there some key available on one of the manuscripts?
Truth is like sandpaper. When you run across it, it can do one of 2 things: grind you down into nothing, or polish and refine you.
Offline Matthew  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:03:48 PM(UTC)
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Y.I.K, I think you want to read the following thread, it's referring to the same placeholder used in the book of Hebrews for both Joshua and Yahshua: http://www.yadanews.com/...in-the-Old-Covenant.aspx

This serves as absolute confirmation of the Messiah's Name, well I think it does, lol!

Edited by user Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:01:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:14:36 AM(UTC)
kp
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After years of mulling it over, Yada came to the conclusion that the "nomina sacra" were used primarily to point the reader back to Old Covenant concepts. Most of them were names or titles for God, but the tipoff is stauros (the upright pole of crucifixion) which forces us to look at the concept of God standing for us, enabling us to stand before Him---this too was communicated with a nominum sacrum.

So, was the Messiah's name really "never named in the Old Covenant?" Perhaps this quote from the final chapter of TOM II will clarifiy the issue:

Quote:
The New Testament, having been penned in Koine Greek and transmitted to us through Latin, doesn’t help us much. We read that Mary was told, “Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus.” (Luke 1:31) But actually, it wasn’t “Jesus” at all. It was the rather common Hebrew name Yâhowshuwa`, which we usually transliterate “Joshua,” but which (since the “J” sound didn’t exist in the Hebrew alphabet) I have been consistently transliterating “Yahshua.” This name in turn has two component sources, yâshuw`ah (meaning salvation) and Yah. “Joshua” thus means “Yahweh is salvation.” This, being Jesus’ real name, has Yahweh’s name within it—just as indicated in the Torah. But a name (shem in Hebrew, onoma in Greek) is more than what you call someone; it is also (as far as Biblical names are concerned) meant to convey one’s character, reputation, title or unique personal identity. So the name Jesus or Joshua (Yâhowshuwa`, i.e., Yahshua) indicates not only the fact that Yahweh is salvation, but that the person who bears this name is intended or destined to characterize this concept as a living reality.

It behooves us, then, to track down the “salvation” component of the Messiah’s name, since Yahweh is said to be this thing. The word yâshuw`ah (pronounced, not coincidentally, the same as “Yahshua”) is used 78 times in the Tanach. It is the passive participle of the Hebrew verb yasha: “to save, deliver, rescue, or liberate.” It is usually translated “salvation” or “deliverance” in our English Bible versions. And although this is a perfectly correct rendition, my contention is that Yahweh was also telling us Who His Messiah would be—by name: Yahshua.

Here are a few of the more blatant examples from the Torah: “For Your salvation [yâshuw`ah] I wait, O Yahweh.” (Genesis 49:18) Jacob was waiting not just for salvation, but Yahweh’s salvation: Yahshua. “Yahweh is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation [yâshuw`ah]; This is my God, and I will praise Him; My father’s God, and I will extol Him.” (Exodus 15:2) Note: Yahweh has become Yahshua! And He (the personified Salvation—Yahshua) is identified as “my God.” “But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, and scorned the Rock of his salvation [yâshuw`ah].” (Deuteronomy 32:15) Here Yahweh has prophesied Israel’s scornful future mindset against His Messiah.

The historical and wisdom books refer to Yahshua as well: “Therefore I will give thanks to You, O Yahweh, among the nations, and I will sing praises to Your name. He is a tower of deliverance [yâshuw`ah] to His king, and shows lovingkindness to His anointed, to David and his descendants forever.” (II Samuel 22:50-51) Note that Yahweh was “Yahshua” in the eyes of King David. “Sing to Yahweh, all the earth; proclaim the good news of His salvation [yâshuw`ah] from day to day.” (I Chronicles 16:23) Yahshua is Yahweh’s “good news.” We didn’t really have to wait until we got into the “Gospels” to learn that, did we? “Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him. He also shall be my salvation [yâshuw`ah], for a hypocrite could not come before Him.” (Job 13:15-16) Here Yahweh is equated with the One who “shall be” Yahshua. Job has also identified Yahshua as the One who enables us to stand before Yahweh as if we were blameless and holy—for that is what his salvation does for us.

References to God’s salvation, personified in the Messiah, are ubiquitous in the Psalms. “Many are they who say of me, ‘There is no help [yâshuw`ah] for him in God.’” (Psalm 3:2) Israel’s denial of their Messiah is once again predicted. “Have mercy on me, O Yahweh! Consider my trouble from those who hate me, You who lift me up from the gates of death, that I may tell of all Your praise in the gates of the daughter of Zion. I will rejoice in Your salvation [yâshuw`ah].” (Psalm 9:13-14) “But I have trusted in Your mercy. My heart shall rejoice in Your salvation [yâshuw`ah].” (Psalm 13:5) In these two passages, the Psalmist David voices a significant component of the most oft-repeated prophetic theme in all of scripture: that Israel will come to recognize that Yahshua is their Messiah. Their national spiritual restoration as predicted in Ezekiel 37:11-14 depends on it. “Oh, that the salvation [yâshuw`ah] of Israel would come out of Zion! When Yahweh brings back the captivity of His people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.” (Psalm 14:7, repeated in Psalm 53:6) As Moses said, when the Messiah comes, He will arise from Israel.

Yahshua quoted this Psalm on the cross, applying it to Himself: “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping [yâshuw`ah] Me?” (Psalm 22:1) The pain of the cross was more than merely physical. As Yahshua “became sin” for us, Yahweh had no choice but to distance Himself from His only begotten Son. “Why are you cast down, O my soul? And why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him for the help [yâshuw`ah] of His countenance.” (Psalm 42:5, repeated in both 42:11 and 43:5) We are to praise God for Yahshua because He is literally the countenance, the face, the presence of Yahweh among us. “Truly my soul silently waits for God. From Him comes my salvation [yâshuw`ah]. He only is my rock and my salvation [yâshuw`ah]. He is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved.” (Psalm 62:1-2) Yahshua comes from God. And oh, by the way, “He alone (i.e., God) is Yahshua.” “God be merciful to us and bless us, and cause His face to shine upon us, that Your way may be known on earth, Your salvation [yâshuw`ah] among all nations.” (Psalm 67:1-2) Yahshua will be known among all nations, and this is equated with “Your (God’s) way being known on earth.” This is a prayer for Yahweh’s mercy and justice to be shown during His Millennial reign, just as Yahshua instructed us to pray: “Your kingdom come; Your will be done in earth as it is in heaven.” (Matthew 6:10) Yahweh’s kingdom, and His will, are actually Yahshua’s kingdom and will.

“A fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel, because they did not believe in God, and did not trust in His salvation [yâshuw`ah].” (Psalm 78:22) Once again, Yahweh has predicted Israel’s rejection and disbelief—and He says He’s angry. “O Yahweh, God of my salvation [yâshuw`ah], I have cried out day and night before You. Let my prayer come before You. Incline Your ear to my cry.” (Psalm 88:1-2) Yahweh is the God of Yahshua. Why would anyone want to be His enemy? “He [God’s “holy One”] shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation [yâshuw`ah].’” (Psalm 89:26) Here God the Father is once again equated with Yahshua. “Salvation [yâshuw`ah] is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.” (Psalm 119:155) Yahshua is far from the wicked. We should therefore want to be close to Him. “Yahweh, I hope for Your salvation [yâshuw`ah], and I do Your commandments.” (Psalm 119:166) Doing Yahweh’s commandments is equated here with hoping for Yahshua. The whole Torah points toward this one reality.

Of all the prophets, Isaiah saw most clearly the connection between Yahweh and His salvation, personified in Yahshua the Messiah. “In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: ‘We have a strong city; God will appoint salvation [yâshuw`ah] for walls and bulwarks.’” (Isaiah 26:1) Yahshua, he says, is appointed by Yahweh to be Israel’s defender. And once again, we are told that Judah will in the end recognize Yahshua as its savior. “Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation [yâshuw`ah] to the ends of the earth.’” (Isaiah 49:6) Yahshua will be a light to the Gentiles first—Then He will raise up Israel (those who allow themselves to be “preserved”). The same Savior will accomplish both feats: Yahshua. And finally, “Thus says Yahweh: ‘Keep justice, and do righteousness, for My salvation [yâshuw`ah] is about to come, and My righteousness to be revealed.’” (Isaiah 56:1) Yes, Yahshua (who is the embodiment of Yahweh’s righteousness) is about to come.

The evidence is overwhelming: Yahweh told us time and again who His anointed one would be—by name: Yahshua. And His name reveals His character, His function, and His role: He would be Yahweh in the flesh, our deliverer and our salvation from the curse of sin.


kp
Offline Greatest I am  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 4:15:57 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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Posts: 54
Location: Canada

Y.I.K. wrote:
Because, from my understanding at least, He is never named in the Old Covenant. So what about in the Renewed Covenant? Nomina Sacra right? Well, how do we know what each placeholder means? Is there some key available on one of the manuscripts?


He is not named because at end time, we are to elect a new God.

Our first God was a man and the last will be as well.

Only man can put voice to the will of God.

Regards
DL
Offline James  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 5:15:38 AM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
He is not named because at end time, we are to elect a new God.

Our first God was a man and the last will be as well.

Only man can put voice to the will of God.

Regards
DL

Just gotta love those blunt off the wall statements which aren't backed up by anything.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Greatest I am  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 9:37:49 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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Posts: 54
Location: Canada

James wrote:
Just gotta love those blunt off the wall statements which aren't backed up by anything.


That is the promise of the end times.

Is Jesus not to return etc and choose his elect.

Who are the elect if not those who elect him from all the other prophets and wanabe Jesus' that he said would be using his name.

Extrapolate a bit unless you are a literalist.

Regards
DL

If a literalist, you might like this joke.

A cannibal was walking through the jungle and came upon a
restaurant operated by a fellow cannibal.
Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the
menu...

Tourist: $5.00
Broiled Missionary: $7.00
Fried Explorer: $9.00
Freshly Baked: Conservatives, Liberals, Parti Québécois, New
Democratic or Green Party: $10.00
Buddhist $ 9.00
Literalist or Fundamentalist: $ 150.00

The cannibal called the waiter over and asked,
'Why such a huge price difference for the Literalist or Fundamentalist: ?'

The cook replied,
Have you ever tried to clean one?....They're so full of shit, it
takes all morning.

Offline In His Name  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 12:46:23 PM(UTC)
In His Name
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I have never heard of an extrapolationist before.

Does everyone get to do their own extrapolating, are there guidelines for extrapolating, is there a head extrapolationist?

Sorry, I am having some trouble with this. Your extrapolation is that we will elect God to be God?

That is really out on the limb there.

Sorry DL, you have lost me.
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline James  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:37:51 PM(UTC)
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wrote:
That is the promise of the end times.

Is Jesus not to return etc and choose his elect.

Who are the elect if not those who elect him from all the other prophets and wanabe Jesus' that he said would be using his name.

Extrapolate a bit unless you are a literalist.

The end times is about Yahushua returning to dwell on Earth for a thousand years. A thousand years of perfection.

Those that will be gathered to Him upon His return, and during the Taruwah harvest prior to His return, are those that have chosen Him, and Trust and Rely upon His plan for our Salvation. When He returns there will be no election, He is going to return and stake claim on His Throne, and as the only being with a rightful claim to rule Earth, he will.

I agree with IHN's assessment of you extrapolation.

I am more or less a literalist, with this caveat, I believe that most everything is meant to convey a deeper meaning. Everything in God's word is there to give us an understanding of His nature, and of the nature of our relationship with Him.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Greatest I am  
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:26:18 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
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Posts: 54
Location: Canada

In His Name wrote:
I have never heard of an extrapolationist before.

Does everyone get to do their own extrapolating, are there guidelines for extrapolating, is there a head extrapolationist?

Sorry, I am having some trouble with this. Your extrapolation is that we will elect God to be God?

That is really out on the limb there.

Sorry DL, you have lost me.


How do you think God will come to power?
Force or acclamation by election?

Regards
DL
Offline Greatest I am  
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:28:58 AM(UTC)
Greatest I am
Joined: 2/28/2010(UTC)
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Location: Canada

James wrote:
The end times is about Yahushua returning to dwell on Earth for a thousand years. A thousand years of perfection.

Those that will be gathered to Him upon His return, and during the Taruwah harvest prior to His return, are those that have chosen Him, and Trust and Rely upon His plan for our Salvation. When He returns there will be no election, He is going to return and stake claim on His Throne, and as the only being with a rightful claim to rule Earth, he will.

I agree with IHN's assessment of you extrapolation.

I am more or less a literalist, with this caveat, I believe that most everything is meant to convey a deeper meaning. Everything in God's word is there to give us an understanding of His nature, and of the nature of our relationship with Him.


So to you, God will claim his position here by force?

Regards
DL
Offline In His Name  
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:59:25 AM(UTC)
In His Name
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Greatest I am wrote:
How do you think God will come to power?
Force or acclamation by election?


1. He will rid the world of all adversaries by FORCE without a doubt (and I would strongly suggest not being on the wrong end of that force).
2. Anyone, everyone left on earth will know Him for who He is, there will be no need for election, everyone will unanimously acclaim him as Father and King.

Question, when you extrapolate, do you have to start with scripture that you agree with or do you get to change the scripture that you don't like as well?

And I am hurt, you replied to Ed's speculation that you are Oprah, but ignored my posit that you are an atheist. Care to set the record straight?

By the way, in case you have not figured it out, you are not garnering much respect around here. That would require some work on your part to figure out who we are (that is not to say we are all the same, but we do hold several key beliefs in common). And I know this will come as a shock, but you might just learn something about us and about YHWH that will help you lose some of your arrogant self-righteousness that allows you to accuse us of beliefs that we do not hold and allows you to pick and choose which verses you believe and which you ignore.

“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline Matthew  
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:59:55 PM(UTC)
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Greatest I am wrote:
So to you, God will claim his position here by force?


DL, with much respect I say this: please understand Scripture in context of the whole.

When He returns, by then mankind would've nearly wiped himself off the earth, the population of the earth would've been drastically reduced by that time, mainly due to a nuclear war, a volcanic eruption, an asteroid strike (Apophis), and the after effects of these events, such as weather disruption, diseases, earthquakes, tsunamis, undrinkable water, etc. The Antichrist (a secular humanist) will be forcing people to make a decision between his way or Yahweh, the one doing the forcing will be the ultimate humanist. By the time God rocks up people would've made it clear who they want to be with, with the Antichrist (under the influence of the Beast) who promises bliss on earth (ironically, him being the one to start the nuclear war, LOL) or to be with Yahweh. God won't need to force anyone to choose, because by then they would've already chosen.

Humanists are the ones against free-will, they are the ones against true love. Yahweh stands for free-will and for love. I hope you can see that.

Also, I'm still curious, what exactly do you believe? You don't seem to be an agnostic, because they are at least rational and mature in their approach. You seem to be an Atheist who supports Humanistic values, but I could be wrong. I've just assumed you're a secular humanist because of your approach to arguing, just saying it's all fairy-tales, quoting out of context and just generally being unable to support proof of your claims.

We are a friendly bunch and would be listening to you if you had a reasoned argument. Heck, I'm even taking the time out to respond in full to you.
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