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Offline Mike  
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:07:20 AM(UTC)
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Is the horse in Revelation 6:8 pale or green or both? I have noticed an increase in the talk of Green lately, Green Living, Green Buildings, Green Jobs, Green Cars, Green Fuels, Cap and Trade, Carbon Credits, UN Agenda 21, etc.

They are using corn in the midwest to make ethynal fuel, E85 and E10. They are using Soybeans to make biodiesel fuel. If this trend continues how many people will starve because grain was used to make fuel instead of used to feed people and livestock?

Another disturbing development is UN Agenda 21. They want to take 18 million acres out of agricultural production and plant new trees. I am sure the trees that they plant will not be fruit of nut trees but useless weed trees. How many people will starve with 18 million acres taken out of agricultural production? And this is just in the USA, I don’t know about plans for the rest of the world? Has anyone heard anything in other countries?

This subject might make a good Yada Yahweh radio show.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a paleG5515 horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

G5515
χλωρός
chlōros
khlo-ros'
From the same as G5514; greenish, that is, verdant, dun-colored: - green, pale.

G5514
Χλόη
Chloē
khlo'-ay
Feminine of apparently a primary word; green”; Chloe, a Christian female: - Chloe.

http://www.usatoday.com/.../2009-08-19-forest_N.htm

Climate plan calls for forest expansion
By Traci Watson, USA TODAY, 8-19-2009
WASHINGTON — New forests would spread across the American landscape, replacing both pasture and farm fields, under a congressional plan to confront climate change, an Environmental Protection Agency analysis shows.
About 18 million acres of new trees — roughly the size of West Virginia — would be planted by 2020, according to an EPA analysis of a climate bill passed by the House of Representatives in June.
That's because the House bill gives financial incentives to farmers and ranchers to plant trees, which suck in large amounts of the key global-warming gas: carbon dioxide.
The forestation effort would be even larger than one carried out by the Civilian Conservation Corps during the Great Depression, says the U.S. Forest Service's Ralph Alig. The CCC, which lasted from 1933 to 1942, planted 3 billion trees, says the Civilian Conservation Corps Legacy, an alumni group for workers and family members.
The environmental benefits are clear. More trees would not only lower carbon dioxide levels, but they would improve water quality, because they need lower levels of pesticides and fertilizers, says agricultural economist Bruce McCarl of Texas A&M University, who contributed to the EPA analysis.
The plan would, however, be hard on ranchers and farmers and potentially food prices, says American Farm Bureau chief economist Bob Young.
In the Senate, which is likely to consider a similar bill this fall, there are some who worry the loss of farmland would lead to increases in food prices worse than those seen in mid-2007, when costs spiked 7% to 8% above 2006 levels.
If those food prices seemed high, "wait till you start moving agricultural acres into climate-change areas," warns Sen. Mike Johanns, R-Neb., Agriculture secretary for President George W. Bush.
McCarl says food costs would stay roughly the same.
The latest EPA analysis does not say where the farmland would be lost. However, an EPA study done in 2005 that analyzed climate-change policies similar to the House bill found that trees would overgrow farms primarily in three areas:
•Great Lake states: Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.
•The Southeast: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida.
•The Corn Belt: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Missouri and Ohio.
Forests once grew there, says study author Brian Murray of Duke University, so trees would sprout quickly in those areas if farmers got financial incentives. The House climate bill would allow landowners who reduce carbon dioxide to sell carbon permits to polluters, such as power plants.
Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack last week hailed the possibility that climate-change action could help forests. "We have our own deforestation problem right here in the U.S. of A," he said. "Just keeping forest as forest is a significant challenge."
Roughly 1 million acres of forests every year were flattened to make way for homes and other development in the 1990s, Alig says. Without a climate bill, a net total 26 million acres of forest will be lost to development by 2050, he says.
Offline James  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:26:03 AM(UTC)
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Interesting take on the Green horse and going Green. I remember the first time I read that the term pale was chlōros which is where we get Chlorophyll, which is what makes planets green, it made sense. Personally I first linked it to Islam. But environmentalism could make sense too. Thanks for bring this to my attention Mike.
Don't take my word for it, Look it up.

“The truth is not for all men but only for those who seek it.” ― Ayn Rand
Offline Robskiwarrior  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:13:15 AM(UTC)
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Green horse eh... sounds like a horse with travel sickness
Signature Updated! Woo that was old...
Offline Matthew  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:19:58 AM(UTC)
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Interesting thought there Mike, but I decided to quickly check FH and TOM to see if KP has referred to this passage. He did in chapter 16 -The Mother of all Battles- of FH but not the first part of the verse exactly regarding the horse, but he does put this verse happening in context of the Gog and Magog war, especially when it breaks out into global war. And here's where it gets interesting, in mitzvah 584 of TOM KP links horses to "military" and in mitzvah 568 he links the colour green (and red) to Islam and Communism. And this really makes sense, because mitzvah 568 is referring to Leviticus 14:33-52 which discusses the Rapture and the 7 year long Tribulation.

I don't think "green" is talking about becoming environmentally friendly in this passage but rather talking about the war started by the falsehood of Islam and, in some way, Communism. Or maybe KP can come up with a better concluding sentence than mine ;)

EDIT:

James wrote:
Personally I first linked it to Islam. But environmentalism could make sense too.

Actually only read James' post now after posting mine. I reckon Islam definitely fits the bill in context of the passage being discussed. "Green" also fits Humanism and its whole drive to be "one with nature," so it wouldn't be surprising if Humanism, in all its forms, gets involved in this war as well.
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2009 8:39:55 AM(UTC)
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I've spoken to KP regarding this thread and he says we should start with a word study on the normal "Greek." And also says, the word is not used in Revelation 6:8. He also says at first glance we might be extraploating, using eisegesis (misinterpeting by reading into the text) rather than exegesis (a critical explanantion or interpretation to find the meaning of the text). He's been quite busy with the radio broadcast.

Here's Swalchy's exanded take on Revelation 6:7-8

Quote:
And when He opened the fourth seal, I heard and listened to, comprehended and attended to, considered, understood and perceived the fourth living one saying and teaching, maintaining and exhorting, advising and directing, affirming and pointing out, “Come, arise and appear!” And I saw and perceived, looked at and observed, noticed and discerned, discovered and experienced, and behold! A pale, greenish-grey horse! And the name of him, the one sitting and sojourning, dwelling and abiding above and upon it was death and separation, and Hades, the abode of the dead, was accompanying and following along with him. And they were given and granted, supplied and furnished, bestowed and delivered, committed and permitted, extended and presented authority, the ability and liberty to do whatever they please, the permission and freedon to decide, evaluate and make the choice over a fourth of the earth and land, ground and inhabited regions to kill and destroy, abolish and extinguish by and with the sword, and by and with famine, and by and with pestilence and death, separation, plague and pandemic disease, and by and with the savage and ferocious wild animals and beasts of the earth and land, ground and inhabited regions.
Offline kp  
#6 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2009 10:47:42 AM(UTC)
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Okay, I owe y'all an apology. A quick glance at Strongs led me to believe that the word used in R6:8 wasn't the regular word for "green." But now that I've looked at it more closely, I realize I was wrong. The word is chlōros, defined as "the green herb or grass, akin to fresh, green. Green, as the grass or plants. Pale or yellowish like the grass when dried up in the heat." (Zodhiates) It's only used 5 times in the New Covenant, 4 of them in Revelation:

(1) And He commanded them all to sit down by groups on the green grass. (Mark 6:39)

(2) I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth. (Rev 6:8)

(3) The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. (Rev 8:7)

(4&5) They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

So if chlōros must be rendered consistently with a single description, I'd say that would be "pale green." But it can apparently be used to describe a range of colors from fresh bright green to a pale, yellowish-green shade. Translating the word "pale" or "ashen" in Rev 6:8 would seem to be an unwarranted extrapolation based on the horses's rider, Death. The horse was green: a horse of a different color, so to speak. So could it be that the "green" horse tells us that the environmental movement has something to do with the demise of earth? For one reason only (and that one technical), I'd say no. That reason is that the seal judgments (like the trumpets and bowls) seem to be consecutive, building from one to the next. The "green" horse comes last in the series, after (1) the antichrist, (2) war, and (3) famine. It would seem strange indeed if the environmental movement were to be the last, ultimate expression of the "four horses of the apocalypse," and not somewhere closer to the beginning.

That's not to say I believe the whole "green movement" isn't a satanic ploy to get the human race to self destruct---to commit suicide for the good of the planet, 'cause we're such awful parasites for just living. Let's face it: satan won't be happy until every last human---as an object of Yahweh's love and affection---is dead in every possible way.

kp
Offline Mike  
#7 Posted : Thursday, September 3, 2009 10:54:55 AM(UTC)
Mike
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Thanks for everyone’s replies.

The third seal judgment is usually interpreted as famine but it is probably the economic/monetary system. Famine would appear to be included in the fourth seal ( that is what “kill with hunger” means).


KJV Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balancesG2218 in his hand.
KJV Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny G1220, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

G2218
ζυγός
zugos
dzoo-gos'
From the root of ζεύγνυμι zeugnumi (to join, especially by a “yoke”); a coupling, that is, (figuratively) servitude (a law or obligation); also (literally) the beam of the balance (as connecting the scales): - pair of balances, yoke.

G1220
δηνάριον
dēnarion
day-nar'-ee-on
Of Latin origin; a denarius (or ten asses): - pence, penny [-worth].


Many times when balances or scales are mentioned in the Old Covenant it is talking about monetary or economic issues, like don’t cheat your customers and/or suppliers. For example:

KJV Pro 11:1 A false balanceH3976 is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

H3976
מאזן
mô'zên
mo-zane'
From H239; (only in the dual) a pair of scales: - balances.

H239
אזן
'âzan
aw-zan'
A primitive root (rather identical with H238 through the idea of scales as if two ears); to weigh, that is, (figuratively) ponder: - give good heed.

KJV Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance H3976 are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work.

KJV Pro 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balanceH3976 is not good.

KJV Isa 46:6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance,H7070 and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship.

H7070
קנה
qâneh
kaw-neh'
From H7069; a reed (as erect); by resemblance a rod (especially for measuring), shaft, tube, stem, the radius (of the arm), beam (of a steelyard): - balance, bone, branch, calamus, cane, reed, X spearman, stalk.

H7069
קנה
qânâh
kaw-naw'
A primitive root; to erect, that is, create; by extension to procure, especially by purchase (causatively sell); by implication to own: - attain, buy (-er), teach to keep cattle, get, provoke to jealousy, possess (-or), purchase, recover, redeem, X surely, X verily.

Fiat currency is an example of diverse weights and false scales because it isn’t based on gold or silver, it is based on debt.

A quart or liter of wheat contains approximately 2000 Calories which is how many Calories a person needs to live each day. Three quarts of barley might sustain a small family of three or four for one day. A denarius was a working man’s daily wage. Basically it means that a person has to work all day for his daily needs with no extra money for savings or luxury items. Oil and wine are luxuries. Today in the USA they say that the average saving rate is 0% or less (negative). So basically we are heading in that direction or almost there.
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