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Offline Robert9876  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17:15 AM(UTC)
Robert9876
Joined: 6/9/2009(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: Pflugerville, Texas

"But the crowning achievement in hypocrisy goes to the Nazi Pope Pius XII and his army of armed priests who brutally slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Christians and Jews, and then danced around their corpses."

That is a snippet from YY chapter "Eden" in the Genesis discussion.

What is this in reference to? I mean, historically, what event(s) is Yada refering to?
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Offline edStueart  
#2 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 8:16:46 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Robert9876 wrote:
"But the crowning achievement in hypocrisy goes to the Nazi Pope Pius XII and his army of armed priests who brutally slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Christians and Jews, and then danced around their corpses."



Other sources imply something different:
Quote:
From 1941 to 1944, Pope Pius and the Catholic Church were responsible for saving more Jews from Nazi persecution than any other person or institution. Some Israeli scholars estimate that as many as 860,000 European Jews were saved from death through concealment in Church facilities, issuance of fake Baptismal certificates, public appeals and other methods. In one instance, Pius lent the Roman Jewish community part payment of a ransom demanded by the Nazis to save several hundred Roman Jews. Prior to becomong Pope, Pius negotiated a Concordat between the Vatican and Germany, which provided that Jews who had converted to Christianity would not be subject to persecution in Germany as Jews. This provision enabled local priests to save tens of thousands of Jews from deporation by issuing fake Baptism certificates. The World Jewish Congress, American Jewish community, Chief Rabbis of Jerusalem, Rome and Budapest, Golda Meir and many other prominent Jewish representatives praised Pius for his relief efforts and public denunciation of racial persecution. In August 2006 extracts from the 60-year-old diary of a nun of the Convent of Santi Quattro Coronati[186] were published in the Italian press, stating that Pope Pius XII ordered Rome's convents and monasteries to hide Jews during the Second World War.[187]


"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline edStueart  
#3 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 1:32:34 PM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

bump
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Robert9876  
#4 Posted : Monday, June 22, 2009 2:07:50 PM(UTC)
Robert9876
Joined: 6/9/2009(UTC)
Posts: 106
Location: Pflugerville, Texas

I'm not exactly sure where you got your quote from, but according to Wikipedia (which I wouldn't necessarily believe forth rite) this Pope didn't save NEARLY that many. In fact, it appears to me (note that this is derived entirely from the wikipedia article, so it's validity should be questioned) that the further on the war went, and thus the more power the Nazi's had, the less and less Pope Pious XII stood up against the Nazi's.

In any case, I don't believe he or the Catholic church were responsible for saving anywhere near the numbers they put out.

An interesting side note, quoted from the wiki article:
Funeral

His funeral procession into Rome was the largest congregation of Romans as of that date. Romans mourned "their" Pope, who was born in their city, especially as hero in time of war.[198] Cardinal Angelo Roncalli (John XXIII) wrote in his diary on October 11, that probably no Roman emperor had enjoyed such a triumph, which he viewed as a reflection of the spiritual majesty and religious dignity of Pius XII. [199]

[edit] Botched embalming

Galeazzi-Lisi reported that Pius XII's body was embalmed in the room where he died using a novel process invented by Dr. Oreste Nuzzi.[200]

Unlike all popes before him, Pope Pius XII did not want the vital organs removed from his body, demanding instead, that it be kept in the same condition, in which God created it.[201] This novelty According to Galeazzi-Lisi, this was the reason why he and Professor Oreste Nuzzi, an embalmer from Naples, used a novel embalming approach invented by Nuzzi.[201]

In a controversial press conference, Galeazzi-Lisi described in great detail the embalming the body of the late Pontiff. He claimed to have used the same system of oils and resins, with which the body of Jesus Christ was preserved. [202] Galeazzi-Lisi asserted that the new process would "preserve the body indefinitely in its natural state"[200] However, whatever chance the new embalming process of efficaciously preserving the body was obliterated by intense heat in Castel Gandolfo during the embalming process. As a result, the body decomposed rapidly and the viewing of the faithful had to be terminated abruptly.

Galeazzi-Lisi reported that heat in the halls, where the body of the late Pope lay in state, caused chemical reactions which required it to be treated twice after the original preparation.[201] Swiss Guards stationed around Pius XII's body were reported to become ill during their vigil.[200] Galeazzi-Lisi asserted that the embalming system would work to its full extent once the body has been closed in the coffin.

However, the embalming performed by Galeazzi-Lisi and Nuzzi was deemed to be a complete failure. Although he was never convicted of any crime, Galeazzi-Lisi was subsequently banned from the Vatican City for life.

It seems in death the true colors came out. The stench of the Roman's emperor...
As of 7-22-2009, 10:19 PM US Central Time

Earliest (possibly)
Time until Friday, September 1, 2023 (Jerusalem time)
5152 days
123665 hours
7419943 minutes

Latest (possibly)
Time until Saturday, October 31, 2026 (Jerusalem time)
6308 days
151410 hours
9084644 minutes
Offline edStueart  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:48:04 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Robert9876 wrote:
In any case, I don't believe he or the Catholic church were responsible for saving anywhere near the numbers they put out.


It seems that perhaps the Israeli PM's were trying to curry favor with Rome by giving them credit for that many 'saves'.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline edStueart  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:48:41 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Robert9876 wrote:
I'm not exactly sure where you got your quote from, but according to Wikipedia (which I wouldn't necessarily believe forth rite) this Pope didn't save NEARLY that many. In fact, it appears to me (note that this is derived entirely from the wikipedia article, so it's validity should be questioned) that the further on the war went, and thus the more power the Nazi's had, the less and less Pope Pious XII stood up against the Nazi's.


My quote was from wiki, too. While Wikipedia is not canonical, outright falsehood usually does not go unchallenged for very long. (And it is easy to cut an paste from!) If there is one thing that we have learned here it is that the validity of any and every document should be questioned!

Robert9876 wrote:

Galeazzi-Lisi described in great detail the embalming the body of the late Pontiff. He claimed to have used the same system of oils and resins, with which the body of Jesus Christ was preserved.


So he waits until after he is dead to start following the (oral) Torah?

Too late, now, bubba!

Robert9876 wrote:

It seems in death the true colors came out. The stench of the Roman's emperor...


Indeed.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:52:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: spellin'

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline kp  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:11:01 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Ummm... Do the Catholics think Yahshua was embalmed? Do they think the women showed up at the tomb to apply ointments meant to preserve the body? C'mon, nobody's that stupid (are they?). The "oils and spices" were merely there to mask the stench of death as the flesh rotted off the bones. The idea was to let nature take its course, then come back later, remove the bones from the tomb and put them in ossuaries, which were then buried. Preservation of the corpse is the world's idea, not God's. It's an Egyptian (and Roman) concept. Yahweh's idea of "preservation" is resurrection, renewal, rebirth. Man may celebrate death; God celebrates Life!

kp
Offline edStueart  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:39:07 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Robert9876 wrote:
"But the crowning achievement in hypocrisy goes to the Nazi Pope Pius XII and his army of armed priests who brutally slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Christians and Jews, and then danced around their corpses."

That is a snippet from YY chapter "Eden" in the Genesis discussion.

What is this in reference to? I mean, historically, what event(s) is Yada refering to?



I am still unable to find the historical event referred to, here.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline Matthew  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:53:11 AM(UTC)
Matthew
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I've done a number of google search combinations but all I really come up with is a lot determination by people to defend Pope Pius XII. There are many claims stating he was actually trying to protect Jews but on the same webpages it does not state what the original accusations were, some indicate that he was too quiet during the reign of the Nazis.

One website, http://one-evil.org/peop...people_20c_Pius_XII.htm, seems to list a number of crimes he was guilty of, quite an interesting read, especially since they rank him as the most evil person to of ever lived. But I haven't found anything that states he actually danced around the dead bodies.

Below is one of the twelve crimes he is accussed of on the website link I provided:

Quote:
Of the single greatest crime against humanity in the history of all humanity: (1939-1945) That Pope Pius XII with the full knowledge and tacit support of Jesuit Superor-General Wlodimir Ledochowski did hand to the Hitler and Himmler a complete blueprint for the systematic elimination of key non-Catholic minorities across Europe as well as the establishment of death camps for their murder. Furthermore, the Pope did instruct that ethnic Jews and other heretics were not simply to be murdered, but ritually sacrificed by being burnt alive, consistent with church law on the penalty of heresy. That this plan was to commence immediately and be overseen by the full Jesuit ordained priests of the SS. This plan was called the Final Solution.

As a result of the specific orders by Pope Pius XII, the German command devised an ingenious method of rendering Jews and other heretics unconscious through gas chambers within a matter of a couple of minutes using Zyklon-B. Victims were then restrained unconscious on stretchers and carted to massive furnaces in which they were placed fully alive, whereupon they would awaken screaming as they were burnt alive in the furnace. Contrary to the military fraud perpetrated by Allies commanders loyal to the Vatican, the death camps were established as early as 1940, at least two full years prior to what was claimed at Nuremberg. Furthermore, the camps did not cease sacrificing human beings being burnt alive until 1945.

That the single purpose of the death camp ovens was not to dispose of bodies but to specifically burn people alive, consistent with the ancient satanic practices upon which Christianity was first formed by the Sadducee Jewish noble families.

That this plan, created by the Vatican, authorized by Pope Pius XII and carried out by full Roman Catholic Priests who oversaw the concentration camps and furnaces represents the single greatest and most evil act of human history to date. Furthermore, the deliberate distortion of facts, the fact that the Pope was never tried as one of the worst mass murderers in history only magnifies the contempt towards international justice and the memory of all those who died.


How true this information is I can't be sure of!
Offline Sator  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:05:15 AM(UTC)
Sator
Joined: 6/29/2007(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: orange county, CA

http://www.nobeliefs.com/ChurchesWWII.htm

Seach the page for danced. Seems to reference Cornwell's book "Hitlers Pope"
Offline edStueart  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:57:09 PM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Matthew wrote:
that he was too quiet during the reign of the Nazis.


Who was it that said words to the effect of: 'All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing.'
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline shalom82  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:45:58 PM(UTC)
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Here is the relevent part of Matthew's link:

From the outset, Pope Pius XII and the Vatican knew of the racist and anti-Semitic statements made by the Croats even as the Pope met with Pavelic and bestowed his papal blessing. Not only did the Croatian Catholic clergy know the details of the massacre of the Serbs and the virtual elimination of the Jews and Gypsies but many of the priests took a leading role! Monks and priests worked as executioners in hastily set up concentration camps where they massacred Serbs. These killings had gotten so brutal that even the Nazis protested against them. By the most reliable reckoning, the Catholic fascists massacred 487,000 Orthodox Serbs and 27,000 Gypsies between 1941 and 1945 in the independent State of Croatia. In addition, approximately 30,000 of the 45,000 Jews died in the slaughter.

At no time did the Vatican make an attempt to halt the forced conversions, appropriation of Orthodox property, or the mass killings. Croat priests had not only sympathized with the fascist massacres but took part in them. According to Cornwell, "Priests, invariably Franciscans, took a leading part in the massacres. Many went around routinely armed and performed their murderous acts with zeal. A father Bozidar Bralow, known for the machine gun that was his constant companion, was accused of performing a dance around the bodies of 180 massacred Serbs at Alipasin-Most." Individual Franciscans killed, set fire to homes, sacked villages, and laid waste the Bosnian countryside at the head of Ustashe bands. In September of 1941, an Italian reporter wrote of a Franciscan he had witnessed south of Banja Luka urging on a band of Ustashe with his crucifix." In the Foreign Ministry archive in Rome there sits a photographic record of atrocities: of women with breasts cut off, gouged eyes, genitals mutilated; and the instruments of butchery: knives, axes, meat hooks. [Cornwell, pp. 253-254] Not only priests, but nuns also sympathized to the movement. Nuns marched in military parades behind soldiers with their arms raised in the fascist salute.

From the very beginning the Catholic clergy worked in collaboration with the Ustashe. Archbishop Stepinac got appointed spiritual leader of the Ustashe by the Vatican in 1942. Stepinac, with ten of his clergy held a place in the Ustashe parliament. Priests served as police chiefs and officers of in the personal bodyguards of Pavelic. There occurred frequent BBC broadcasts on Croatia of which a February 16, 1942 typical report stated: "The worst atrocities are being committed in the environs of the archbishop of Zagreb [Stepinac]. The blood of brother is flowing in streams. The Orthodox are being forcibly converted to Catholicism and we do not hear the archbishop's voice preaching revolt. Instead it is reported that he is taking part in Nazi and Fascist parades." [Cornwell, p.256] The French cardinal Eugene Tisserant, a Slavonic expert, told a Croat representative on March 6, 1942, "that it is the Franciscans themselves, as for example Father Simic of Knin, who have taken part in attacks against the Orthodox populations so as to destroy the Orthodox Church in banja Luka...." [Cornwell, p. 259]

YHWH's ordinances are true, and righteous altogether.
Offline edStueart  
#13 Posted : Friday, July 10, 2009 3:11:24 AM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

Robert9876 wrote:
"But the crowning achievement in hypocrisy goes to the Nazi Pope Pius XII and his army of armed priests who brutally slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Christians and Jews, and then danced around their corpses."

That is a snippet from YY chapter "Eden" in the Genesis discussion.

What is this in reference to? I mean, historically, what event(s) is Yada refering to?


I am still not still not seeing it. The metaphor is hyperbolic, at best.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
Offline kp  
#14 Posted : Friday, July 10, 2009 8:36:39 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Yada was referring to research he'd done on "islamic clubs" for POD. Check out two articles that mention Pope Pius XII:
http://prophetofdoom.net...amic_Clubs_Ustashi.Islam
and http://prophetofdoom.net...s_Mufti_Mujahideen.Islam

We live in a sick world, folks.

kp
Offline edStueart  
#15 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2009 5:35:41 PM(UTC)
edStueart
Joined: 10/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 370
Location: Philadelphia

kp wrote:
Yada was referring to research he'd done on "islamic clubs" for POD. Check out two articles that mention Pope Pius XII:
http://prophetofdoom.net...amic_Clubs_Ustashi.Islam
and http://prophetofdoom.net...s_Mufti_Mujahideen.Islam



Ok, after reading these two articles (and doing a little fact checking), I feel that Yada's use the metaphor "dancing on their graves" is justified*.

The Pope was playing both sides of the conflict, and one side was really evil.






*not that anyone should care about what I think, I just want to go on record as being in agreement.
"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
But first, it will piss you off!
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