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Offline Garrett  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:51:07 AM(UTC)
Garrett
Joined: 1/28/2008(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Idaho

Todah Rabbah guys.

One question that popped into my mind this morning on my drive to work...

How do we know His name was Yahshua? I mean, if the Apostolic Scriptures in Greek are the measuring stick, where do we find the name Yahshua? All we have is the pagan Iseus (Jesus), right? Unless we have some trustworth Hebrew or Aramaic source, how can we know what His true name was?

And this brings up another question:

If His name was indeed given as Yahshua, how do we know it was Yod-Hey-Vav-Shin-Ayin (Yahushua or Yahshua - Yah is Salvation) verses Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin (Yeshua) which simply means "Salvation".

I eagerly await the responses from my brothers on this site.

Shalom!
Garrett-
It is the glory of Elohim (God) to conceal a matter, but the honour of melekim (kings) to search it out.
Offline kp  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:24:58 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

I believe his name was actually Yahshua. I have no textual proof, but if you reverse-engineer the name in the Old Covenant scriptures, you begin to see that His name was prophesied scores of times in the Hebrew texts. Where does "Yahshua" show up in the Tenach? There is a word, used 78 times, that is phonetically identical, and since the New Testament was transmitted to us in Greek, not Hebrew, the phonetic sound of a word is all we have to go by. The word is yâshuw`ah. The Hebrew spelling is יְשׁוּעָה . That is the Strong's Lexicon pronunciation; other sources, such as the Dictionary of Biblical languages With Semantic Domains, pronounce it yeshu˓ah. In any case, it is usually translated "salvation" or "deliverance" in our English Bible versions. And this is a perfectly correct rendition. But my contention is that Yahweh was also telling us Who His Messiah would be---by name.

“For Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) I wait, O Yahweh.” (Genesis 49:18) Jacob---Israel---waited for Yahshua: not just salvation, but Yahweh's salvation.

“Yahweh is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה); This is my God, and I will praise Him; My father’s God, and I will extol Him.” (Exodus 15:2) Note: Yahweh has become Yahshua!

“But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, and scorned the Rock of his salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Deuteronomy. 32:15) Here Yahweh has predicted Israel’s scornful mindset.

“Therefore I will give thanks to You, O Yahweh, among the nations, and I will sing praises to Your name. He is a tower of deliverance (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) to His king, and shows lovingkindness to His anointed, to David and his descendants forever.” (II Samuel 22:50-51) Yahweh was Yahshua to King David.

“Sing to Yahweh, all the earth; proclaim the good news of His salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) from day to day.” (I Chronicles 16:23) Yahshua is Yahweh's "good news."

“Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him. He also shall be my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה), for a hypocrite could not come before Him.” (Job 13:15-16) Job has equated Yahweh with the One who "shall be" Yahshua.

“Many are they who say of me, ‘There is no help (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) for him in God.” (Psalm 3:2) Israel’s denial is once again predicted.

“Have mercy on me, O Yahweh! Consider my trouble from those who hate me, You who lift me up from the gates of death, that I may tell of all Your praise in the gates of the daughter of Zion. I will rejoice in Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Psalm 9:13-14) Here and in the next one, the Psalmist voices the most oft-repeated theme in all of scripture: that Israel will come to recognize that Yahshua is their Messiah. Their national spiritual restoration as predicted in Ezekiel 37:11-14 depends on it.

“But I have trusted in Your mercy. My heart shall rejoice in Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Psalm 13:5) Ditto.

“Oh, that the salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) of Israel would come out of Zion! When Yahweh brings back the captivity of His people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.” (Psalm 14:7, repeated in Psalm 53:6) As Moses said, the Messiah will arise from Israel.

“My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? Why are You so far from helping (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) Me?” (Psalm 22:1) Yahshua quoted this Psalm on the cross, applying it to Himself.

“Why are you cast down, O my soul? And why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him for the help (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) of His countenance.” (Psalm 42:5, repeated in both 42:11 and 43:5) We are to praise God for Yahshua---who is literally the countenance of Yahweh among us.

“Truly my soul silently waits for God. From Him comes my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה). He only is my rock and my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה). He is my defense; I shall not be greatly moved.” (Psalm 62:1-2) Yahshua comes from God. And oh, by the way, "He (God) only is...Yahshua."

“God be merciful to us and bless us, and cause His face to shine upon us, that Your way may be known on earth, Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) among all nations.” (Psalm 67:1-2) Yahshua will be known among all nations, and this is equated with "Your (God's) way being known on earth."

“Therefore Yahweh heard this and was furious. So a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel, because they did not believe in God, and did not trust in His salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).” (Psalm 78:22) Once again, Yahweh has predicted Israel’s rejection and disbelief---and He says He's angry.

“O Yahweh, God of my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה), I have cried out day and night before You. Let my prayer come before You. Incline Your ear to my cry.” (Psalm 88:1-2) Yahweh is the God of Yahshua. Why would anyone want to be His enemy?

“He [God’s “holy One”] shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה).’” (Psalm 89:26) Here God the Father is once again equated with Yahshua.

“Salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) is far from the wicked, for they do not seek Your statutes.” (Psalm 119:155) Yahshua is far from the wicked. We should therefore want to be close to Him.

“Yahweh, I hope for Your salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה), and I do Your commandments.” (Psalm 119:166) Doing Yahweh's commandments is equated with hoping for Yahshua. The whole Torah points toward this one reality.

“In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: ‘We have a strong city; God will appoint salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) for walls and bulwarks.’” (Isaiah 26:1) Yahshua is appointed by Yahweh to be Israel's defender. And once again, we are told that Judah will recognize Yahshua as its savior.

“Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) to the ends of the earth.’” (Isaiah 49:6) Yahshua will be a light to the Gentiles first---Then He will raise up Israel (if they allow themselves to be "preserved"). The same Savior will accomplish both feats: Yahshua.

“Thus says Yahweh: ‘Keep justice, and do righteousness, for My salvation (yâshuw`ah—יְשׁוּעָה) is about to come, and My righteousness to be revealed.’” (Isaiah 56:1) Yes, Yahshua (who is Yahweh's righteousness) is about to come.

kp
Offline lassie1865  
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 11, 2008 1:13:03 PM(UTC)
lassie1865
Joined: 2/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 309
Woman
Location: Colorado

In the book of Luke, discussing Paul's (Saul's) Damascus Road experience, Paul hears Yahushua's speaking to him in the Hebrew language (I assume the language Paul knew best); however, in Luke's Greek written account, does he use "Yahushua" or "Iesous"?

Blessings, Lassie1865
Offline BiynaYahu  
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:30:21 AM(UTC)
BiynaYahu
Joined: 4/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 314
Man
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Grace, and love everyone,

Swalch, Isn't Iesous the transliteration used in the septuagint for YAHUshua the son of Nun? And, isn't it pretty strong evidence that in the later manuscripts of the renewed covenant writings they used that same transliteration for Ma'sehyah? Well, correct me if I'm wrong about that septuagint thing
Someone who does not dearly love or welcome, entertain, look fondly upon or cherish people with strong affection or highly esteem them with great favour, goodwill or benevolence, be loyal to or greatly adore them has not known or understood, perceived or realized, noticed or discerned, discovered or observed, experienced or ascertained, learned about or distinguished, comprehended, acknowledged or recognized God*, for concerning this, God* is and exists as brotherly love and affection, good will, esteem and benevolence.
Offline Matthew  
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:24:28 PM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
Swalchy wrote:
After that time, is the first occurnece of Iesous being written out.

So why did they use the name Iesous then? What made them change from a placeholder to a written name if the pronunciation is not the same as in the original languague, assuming of course that it is not just by looking at the letters used? So in other words, is the pronunciation of Iesous in Greek even remotely close to the pronunciation of Yahushua in Hebrew?

I notice some Messianics who say Yeshua almost pronounce it the same as Yahshua, there is a very slight difference in the pronunciation of the letter E in Yeshua and the first A in Yahshua. Do you think Messianics lose the link between the Names YAHweh and YAHshua when using YHWH (Yahweh) and Yeshua, especially when written out in English? I don't know Messianics well enough to have seen topics about this subject.
Offline sirgodfrey  
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:35:18 PM(UTC)
sirgodfrey
Joined: 10/2/2008(UTC)
Posts: 512
Location: North Carolina

my two cents: from what i understand, Messianic Jews pronouncing Yeshua with the E and not Yahshua with the A is due to superstition and religion... Yahweh too holy to pronounce so it became Yeh, and that is where you get the errant Jehova to a certain degree.
Offline Matthew  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:34:26 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 2 post(s)
kp wrote:
I believe his name was actually Yahshua. I have no textual proof, but if you reverse-engineer the name in the Old Covenant scriptures, you begin to see that His name was prophesied scores of times in the Hebrew texts. Where does "Yahshua" show up in the Tenach? There is a word, used 78 times, that is phonetically identical, and since the New Testament was transmitted to us in Greek, not Hebrew, the phonetic sound of a word is all we have to go by. The word is yâshuw`ah. The Hebrew spelling is יְשׁוּעָה.

What about the Name Joshua (Strong's 3091)? How phonetically close is it to Yahshua (Strong's 3444)?

Deuteronomy 31:2-3 I [Moses] am now a hundred and twenty years old and I am no longer able to lead you. The LORD has said to me, 'You shall not cross the Jordan.' The LORD your God himself will cross over ahead of you. He will destroy these nations before you, and you will take possession of their land. Joshua also will cross over ahead of you, as the LORD said." We can only cross over the Jordan with Yahushua, as Yahuweh goes before us, unfortunately Moses does not get us across.

I thought the name of Joshua (obviously in Hebrew) was also phonetically idential to the Messiah's Name.
Offline Matthew  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:53:19 AM(UTC)
Matthew
Joined: 10/3/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,191
Man
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

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Swalchy wrote:
Technically, Strong's 3444 is just the shorter version of Strong's 3091 , like Steve is short for Stephen etc etc.

Just like Yah is short for Yahuweh, Yahshua/Yashuw'ah is short for Yahushua

So is His Name Yahushua or Yahshua, one with and one without the oo sound in the middle?
Offline Icy  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:34:07 AM(UTC)
Icy
Joined: 9/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 641
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA

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KP will tell you that he pronounces "Yahshua" as "Yahushua," he just likes to write it the later way. Either way, there is an oo sound in the middle.
Offline HawleyluYah  
#10 Posted : Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:17:33 AM(UTC)
HawleyluYah
Joined: 11/22/2008(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Chishoim, MN.

The Messiah's name was revealed to us in Zec 6:11 and 12
Zec 6:11 "Take the silver and gold, make an elaborate crown, and set it on the head of Yahushua ( יהושע ) the son of Jehozadak, the high priest.
Zec 6:12 "Then speak to him, saying, 'Thus says Yahweh of hosts, saying: "Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH! From His place He shall branch out, And He shall build the temple of Yahweh;

More support for the pronunciation is found in the Murashu texts, which dates back to the 5th century BCE, these documents were written on clay tablets in cuneiform script, which did use vowels. These documents list the names of around 70 Jews that settled in Persia. In these tablets, the Hebrew names which begin with Yod Heh Waw all are written "Yahu-" and never "Y'ho" or "Yeho", this was done in a time when it was not only OK to use the name of Yahweh, but also a duty to do so.
Offline In His Name  
#11 Posted : Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:29:34 PM(UTC)
In His Name
Joined: 9/7/2008(UTC)
Posts: 550

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HawleyluYah wrote:
this was done in a time when it was not only OK to use the name of Yahweh, but also a duty to do so.


A duty to use His name !! now were talking !! :-)
“Because he clings to Me, is joined to Me, loves and delights in Me, desires Me, therefore I will deliver him, carry him safely away, cause him to escape from harm making him inaccessible and strong, and delivering him safely to heaven, because he has known, observed, cared for, recognized, instructed and advised others to use, designated, acknowledged, discerned, answered in, My name, authority, character, report, mark, and nature." Psalm 91:14
Offline GoldenChow  
#12 Posted : Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:34:27 PM(UTC)
GoldenChow
Joined: 11/18/2008(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Deary, ID

From 'jest me 'n Dog' in Idaho.

I am very new to this type of communication and not sure of its working but I read this and all kind of lights went off.

I read your query and am very interested in the serious motive of it. I had wondered about it but don't have the right questions to ask but my personal guardian angel is always present and your question really rang my bell.

That is my response and want to learn more.

If I have responded correctly this is from Idaho.

jest me 'n Dog. YADA YAHWEH.
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