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Offline Jeannie  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:04:11 AM(UTC)
Jeannie
Joined: 6/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 254
Woman
Location: Florida

This was an e-mail to Yada. This is a great testimony!!!

Saturday, August 19, 2006

Beliefwatch: Foxholes
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/...7/site/newsweek/from/ET/


This is one of the saddest articles I’ve ever read.
The only thing that makes any sense in it is how there is discrimination against atheists in the military, but this article goes well beyond just that.

I never thought I would see atheists come out and officially acknowledge, or actually defiantly flaunt, that they should be acknowledge as an organized religion.
Being an atheist almost all my life, it just boggles my mind. Why would someone who gives no credence at all to religion or even God care about any of this?

I can’t decide whether it’s a case of “methinks thou dost protest too much” or this is human secularism brazenly flexing its muscles and letting us see behind the curtain to see its religious foundation.

And it’s all capped off by the statement about atheists being atheists forever.

Being a former atheist, I’m biased, but I think of all groups of people, atheists are the most likely to change their stripes and form a relationship with Yahweh.
Anyone indoctrinated in a religious framework has to unlearn and tear down foundations, many times at the cost of straining relationships with friends and family, and will almost always fall back on “their faith” rather than deal with logic when confronted with evidence.
An agnostic may be more open to accepting Yahweh than an atheist, but they by definition are too lazy and apathetic to devote the time to ever form much of an understanding/relationship at all.

A true atheist is someone who has looked at evidence, taken the time to think about it, and has made a conscious choice that it’s very unlikely that there is a God.
For the record, I think that very few who call themselves atheist are actually atheist.
It takes a lot to have faith that there is no God. I would guess that 9,999 in 10,000 “atheists” are actually exceptionally ambivalent agnostics.

Even though I knew there were huge unfilled holes in my beliefs, there was more substance than gaps, unlike the religious belief systems of the world which have gaping holes and no foundations (universe, is infinitely old, the universe is 6,000 years old, etc…, the sun sets in a muddy bog, etc…).
Even when I started working with a friend to help him put together http://YadaYahweh.com and was starting to see how amazing and clever scripture seen correctly was, I felt that there was absolutely no way a perfect being could exist that offered a choice of loving and obeying him or suffering for eternity. No matter how much was missing in my logic of atheism, it was all dwarfed in comparison to the sadistic hypocrisy and illogic of “heaven or hell.” The flood gates opened for me as we discovered that Scripture describes a third option, annihilation. After that, I became enthralled with discovering what else Judeo-Christian religions misrepresented to mankind, and have found many more (for the curious, they are all laid out at http://YadaYahweh.com )

In my very biased opinion, true atheists are typically much more logical and analytical.
That is, on average, a religious person is someone who wants to feel good (“focus on the positive”), be accepted in a community, and be told what to say and think.
An atheist can’t get all the answers, but sees religion as the last place to find them.
Being often times “scientific,” they are very averse to building a definition of existence around a “magical” entity that fills in all of their knowledge gaps.

In my case, the evidence presented to me to support God was so obtuse, that it served to confirm that staying away from the God solution was the right train of thought.
This is why when His Word is presented without the obfuscation of religion and the nuances of our existence are allowed to shine, I think that an atheist can easily appreciate how the truths in “their science” and Yahweh’s Word are one and the same (When the science of relativity is applied, it turns out science is in exact harmony with what happened with our universe and our planet over the six days of Genesis http://YadaYahweh.com/Ya...ion-Hayah-Existence.aspx). It’s my opinion that the world’s best scientists have at some time in their lives reached a point where they see how science and scripture are in harmony. They either stuck to their scientific/logic roots enough to know when to throw away man’s religious corruptions, or they were atheists who reached a point where they realized that too much of the universe was perfectly tuned to our existence for even infinite time to provide all the answers.

So, to summarize my ranting, if you are an atheist, if you really take the time to look at the evidence in Scripture and even in “pure” science, you will realize that it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to listen to Yahweh and let him show you the answers.
And speaking of faith, if you are religious and worship something that you have faith that they exist, then you have missed the point.
The entire reason we are here is to have a loving relationship with Him. Fear and worship have nothing to do with love.
Agnostics, get off your butts. You can’t earn/buy your way into a relationship with good deeds. Relationships are formed by getting to know someone.


J

Edited by user Saturday, July 21, 2007 4:58:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Joseph  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 20, 2007 11:34:26 PM(UTC)
Joseph
Joined: 7/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 42
Man
Location: lakewood. CO

Hi Jeannie...
for what it's worth, this is my first post here.
Like yourself, I was an athiest for most of my life. The one thing that ultimately saved (I hope) this arrogant and flawed human is that I have always sought truth and still do. It was March of this year that I asked Yahushua to bear my sins and I came to this point through a process of looking at the science. But I don't know if it was the science that did it for me. I think it was the search for truth. I've changed my mind a lot during my journey on this earth. Mind you, I've reached a point where my soul is concerned that I never intend to leave. I've never felt more alive in my life and YY has played an important role.
As Yada points out, we still have work to do and just as I think we can't lump all athiests into one category (some athiests I know, and I know too many, are the most close minded and resistent to science as anyone on the planet), neither can we throw all Christians into the same pile. I'm still reading Future History, but dosen't KP consistently call himself a Christian? I know many Christains who rely heavily on the science to fortify their beliefs.
I'm still searching Jeannie. YY makes a lot of sense to me, but is it flawless? I don't know. How much does it matter? I don't know. I just pray every day - sometimes upright, sometimes not -that He will do His work through His spirit in me and that I will do my best to not let my foolish self get in the way.
I'll say this much: I don't have the confidence that Yada and KP have in knowing that I am saved. Yahushua spoke to Satan in the body of his own deciple Peter. How can I know that I am saved, let alone anybody else? I sin every day, just like every Christian and every athiest.
If I have meandered, I apologize. I basically saw this thread as an opportunity to introduce myself.

In Yahweh
Joe
Offline kp  
#3 Posted : Saturday, July 21, 2007 3:54:30 AM(UTC)
kp
Joined: 6/28/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,030
Location: Palmyra, VA

Hello, Joe, and welcome to the forum and to Yahweh's family. I should clarify something about the differences in the way Yada and I use the word "Christian." These definitions overlap to a great degree, but they aren't 100% coterminous, hence the confusion. Yada defines "Christian" as "anyone practicing the religion of Christianity." And it is this "practice of religion" that he rightly objects to. Religion and relationship are not remotely the same thing. Indeed, it is possible that these concepts are mutually exclusive. (Yada would insist that they are; I am far less sure of myself.) On the other hand, I employ the word "Christian" to encompass all of what the Greek word ekklesia means as it's used in Scripture. The word literally means "called out," which makes the translation "church" unfortunate, misleading, and counterproductive.

Ekklesia is clearly used in scripture to indicate the whole of Christendom---good, bad, and indifferent. There are seven congregations addressed in Revelation 2 and 3, some of which are commended by Yahshua and some of which are chastised. Most of them are a mixed bag: wheat and tares, genuine and counterfeit, relatives and religionists. That's what I'm calling "Christianity."

In recent years, I've come to the firm conclusion that the facts of science and the truth of scripture are in perfect alignment. Unfortunately, what usually gets compared is errant conclusions drawn from the scientific data in opposition to unwarranted doctrinal positions that have become ingrained in Christian circles through tradition and religious fervor. If the data and scriptures were allowed to speak for themselves, there would be far fewer points of contention.

Finally, your epiphany that "you sin every day like everybody else" is the first baby step toward a joyful confidence in Yahweh's salvation. The reason so many remain befuddled on the issue of eternal security is that they never come to grips with grace. In our own strength, we can never achieve sinlessness or become clean as long as we inhabit these mortal bodies. God provides everything we need---including the very righteousness we need in order to stand in His presence. The parable of the wedding feast in Matthew 22:1-14 brings the discussion full circle. After the originally invited guests (Israel) had refused to come to the party, the king opened the doors to anybody who wanted to come---hence the preponderance of gentiles in the ekklesia today. But there was one guy who showed up at the feast (v11) who hadn't bothered to put on the "wedding garment" that had been freely provided to all the guests. This garment represents the righteousness of Yahshua, without which we are not able to stand before God. The point is that none of the wedding guests were "worthy." They were all scum, the dregs of the earth (just like you and me). But they were all made welcome through the gracious provision of the king, not through their own efforts. Good behavior comes in response to God's love; it's worthless in trying to attain it. Once you embrace this truth, I believe you'll be able to relax and enjoy the relationship you've made with Yahweh---you'll know you're saved.

kp

Offline Jeannie  
#4 Posted : Saturday, July 21, 2007 4:52:03 AM(UTC)
Jeannie
Joined: 6/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 254
Woman
Location: Florida

Joseph welcome to the forum and to the body of Yahusuha!!! I wish I could take credit for that testimony but that was an email between Yada and a YY reader.
Quote:
I'm still searching Jeannie. YY makes a lot of sense to me, but is it flawless?

kp put on another thread that we should all be studying the Scriptures apart from mens views and he was refering to his as well so my advise is the same as his.

Quote:
Finally, your epiphany that "you sin every day like everybody else" is the first baby step toward a joyful confidence in Yahweh's salvation

kp has said this the BEST!!!! and I concur!!
Jeannie
Quote:
My advice: follow Yahweh and His Word. Dig for the truth. Don't trust your English translations without checking and double checking, and for heaven's sake, don't take any man's advice (including my own) without filtering it through the truth of Scripture.

This is kp's exact quote...
Offline FF  
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 21, 2007 8:51:15 AM(UTC)
FF
Joined: 6/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 150
Man
Location: The Other Washington

Joseph,

Welcome to the YY Forum. Reading your post tells me lots about you.

Halleluyah,
FF

First that you are questioning everything with a repentant heart is a very good sign that you are saved. Because you have come to truth and it causes you to seek more truth and think for your self and make choices for your self based on scriptural truths.

Second you say you are still sinning is a very good indicator also that you are saved. Because the Set-Apart Cleansing and Purifying Spirit is causing you to admit you are a sinner and now one who is saved by the grace of Yahweh through Yahushua the Anointed Messiyah.

Third you made a personal choice to ask Yahshua to bear your sins.

Fourth because of the prior three you now have been clothed in the garments of light and truth and are being cleansed and purified by the Set-Apart Cleansing and Purifying Spirit your spiritual mom who gave birth to you spiritually in March...

VERY GOOD NEWS!!!

Now for scripture to back up my words with Yahuweh’s words.

First see:

Galatians 4:7-9 (New International Version)
7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?

Second see:

1 John 4:7-9 (New International Version) 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son Yahushua into the world that we might live through him.

Third see:

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

See John chapter 17 and it will explain who gave Yahushua his name and it was not man who 400 years ago made up the name Jesus. Now I know you can kind of sort of weave a web of thought into Latin, Greek, German, English and kind of sort of come to the conclusion Jesus is the Messiyah. But I do not think you can reverse the translation or transliteration and make it say the name Jesus is literally Yahuweh's Salvation. It is a very big stretch.

Fourth see the foot notes at the bottom of John Chapter 17 about who's name and what name you can be saved by and see the meaning of Holy as Set_Apart for sacred use:

John 17 1After Yahushua said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Anointed Messiyah, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. 6"I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify[b] them by the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. 20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Footnotes:

John 17:6 Greek your name; also in verse 26
John 17:17 Greek hagiazo (set apart for sacred use or make holy also in verse 19

Edited by user Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:14:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

FF
Offline Joseph  
#6 Posted : Sunday, July 22, 2007 9:21:06 PM(UTC)
Joseph
Joined: 7/16/2007(UTC)
Posts: 42
Man
Location: lakewood. CO

Jeannie, I apologize for taking your post on this detour, but I want to thank you, Ken, and FF for your kind and thought provoking welcomes. Indeed, as I am full of questions, I intend to impose on the wisdom of all of you to whatever extent you can tolerate. In that spirit, I want to share my biggest burden...

Recently on talk radio I heard a clip of John Edwards being asked what his biggest sin was. His answer was, needless to say, political. Mine would be immediate and direct: arrogance. You see, while I was busy being an athiest, my Christian wife and I were raising three teriffic sons. They are out of the house now (save for the youngest who will be off to college in a few months) and because of me, they do not know Yahweh. My wife is truely an amazing human being. I have to believe that Yahweh works through her in ways I can't even fathom. She sufferred my spiritual meandering (I was raised Catholic) pretty much in silence, knowing that eventually I would come to the right place. She believes the same of our sons. I don't share her confidence. Every day I live in the knowledge that I have led the people I love most away from Him. I am thankful that my sons are willing to have spiritual discussions with me and pray that my wife is right, but as of now I have fallen short of bringing them back to Him.

In the meantime, we have adopted two girls from China (the most recent of whom was born on 9/11. A fact that I find poignant). Betty and I have decided to seek a church to insure that they grow up in Him. This isn't a bad thing, is it? I would treasure any feedback.
Offline Theophilus  
#7 Posted : Monday, July 23, 2007 5:10:32 AM(UTC)
Theophilus
Joined: 7/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 544
Man

Thanks: 4 times
Joseph, first I'd like to join the others in welcoming you to this forum and more for sharing your heart and where you've been and are going with us. It sounds like you have a pretty amazing spouse in Betty and family.

To address your concerns about your sons, while they may now be at an age where weighing what you say and do now may not be as directly impactful as in their youth that fact that you may have influenced them away from Yahuweh, and have found Him may uniquely position you to tell them about your spiritual journey. That is you know where your points of contention were and I'm guessing have found satifying reasons to change your views on these. I further trust that Betty's example did not go un-noticed. If you still wrestle with doubts or objections from them, you know that you are not alone and have access to resources to address these. I hope that you'll use your burden as reason to not give up on your sons but will continue to love them, and talk with them while they may be in the far off country patiently praying for them and awaiting their return.

As for fellowship, does Betty have such a place now? I think that there is value in fellowship but I trust YY has given you somethings to consider in your convictions in what to look for. For my part, I choose to travel some distance to a Messianic congregation that does observe the Miqra and observe the seventh day sabath.

Offline Jeannie  
#8 Posted : Monday, July 23, 2007 5:29:55 AM(UTC)
Jeannie
Joined: 6/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 254
Woman
Location: Florida

Joseph for what it's worth I don't think it makes a difference what either of you have done if they didn't have the truth to begin with, your back to zero. At this point they are grown men and can think for themselves or should. The only way no one gets these messages of truth is because they choose not to. Forget the commentary of Yada and KP in their work and look at the amplification of the Scripture alone they have done and if that doesn't convince you after careful study then you get what you deserve. I think it would be great to have a place to fellowship but at this point unless your giving me or trying to at least give me the truth my home on the Sabbath is the best place to be!!
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